The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - - Part 84

[spideyboy_1111]

It's kinda hard to think that someone that stupid could also invent an entire power grid from bioelectric eels.

They're kinda mutually exclusive.

Unless his lack of reasoning in a social setting is caused by some other factor, I think with the way he talks to himself, his insular outbursts, the way he walks/talks, his actions in time square, ect. It's pretty clear that factor is mental illness.

"He's just stupid" seems like really shallow reasoning to mme.

1.) Stupidity, a "lack of reason", can be attributed to the mentally ill
2.) Stupidity does not adequately explain his outbursts
3.) Stupidity and his design of the power grid are mutualky exclusive concepts. To tie them together, you need a catalyst like mental illness. Also, "he's stupid beyond belief in public settings and smart in an academic setting" is a small sign of mental illness.

In its simplest form, mental illness is the only logical explanation for the actions of the character

There's plenty of highly intelligent people who are bat dookie crazy and lack any form of social skills

 

[Spider-knight]

Well said and I agree 100%. I never understood the idea that if a character doesn't have depth in the comics then he can't/shouldn't on screen. As a writer that idea offends me. We've seen it go the other way haven't we? This series has butchered characters like Connors, Electro and Norman Osborn, undermined Uncle Bens importance to Peter, etc, so why can't the writing go in the other direction? Just keeping it in the Spidey-verse, a lot of people's opinions changed about Kraven after DeMatteis' Last Hunt storyline. This stuff ain't new. There is absolutely no excuse to have a character as anemic and uninteresting as Electro was in this film. It's just an insult to intelligent people and ultimately a big waste of time.

I agree abd messing around with electro's character in the film is unacceptable. If they hate the character then have him lose. It's why they have a hero like spidey for.

 

[<(o_o)>]

It's kinda hard to think that someone that stupid could also invent an entire power grid from bioelectric eels.

They're kinda mutually exclusive.

Unless his lack of reasoning in a social setting is caused by some other factor, I think with the way he talks to himself, his insular outbursts, the way he walks/talks, his actions in time square, ect. It's pretty clear that factor is mental illness.

"He's just stupid" seems like really shallow reasoning to mme.

1.) Stupidity, a "lack of reason", can be attributed to the mentally ill
2.) Stupidity does not adequately explain his outbursts
3.) Stupidity and his design of the power grid are mutualky exclusive concepts. To tie them together, you need a catalyst like mental illness. Also, "he's stupid beyond belief in public settings and smart in an academic setting" is a small sign of mental illness.

In its simplest form, mental illness is the only logical explanation for the actions of the character

'
They tried to make Max sort of a Nutty Professor of sorts he was brilliant but lacked confidence & let himself be ran over & bullied by others without sticking up for himself. In the movie it sounds like Max was screwed over by Smythe & others so Electro should have went after them.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

'
They tried to make Max sort of a Nutty Professor of sorts he was brilliant but lacked confidence & let himself be ran over & bullied by others without sticking up for himself. In the movie it sounds like Max was screwed over by Smythe & others so Electro should have went after them.

that's what i felt should have happend as well.. it should have been about a mentally unstable man trying to take down the men who ridiculed him with spidey getting in the way. (would have been nice to see him go after harry as well, which could have lead to an onset of his fathers disease or something...

and on the flip side, it would have been very much in character for him to also (when gifted the abilities) possibly even try to be a hero himself.. donning a ridiculous, flashy costume.. and still continue to be laughed at and not taken seriously.. until you know... he killed someone. I could see a scene playout sorta like the scene from Season 1 of Sparacus when the one woman was laughing at Ilithyia and she snapped shoved her to the ground and started smashing her head into the ground like a mashed potato...

 

[The Joker]

John Stewart is regarded as one of the worst Green Lanterns (and the black Green Lantern).

At the same time, he is the most recognizable because of the Justice League animated series using him and writing hands down the best take on the character thanks to smart writers like Dwayne Mcduffie. He is the reason why John was so great on the show and the comics have taken stuff from John in the show and put them in the comics.

Mr. Freeze was a joke of a villain and dead for years in comics.

Then Bruce Timm and Paul Dini revamped him when working on Batman The Animated Series and Mr. Freeze went from a D list villain to among the ranks of Joker, Two-Face, Riddler, and Penguin in Batman's rogue gallery.

It's not the character's fault for being terrible.

Well said and I agree 100%. I never understood the idea that if a character doesn't have depth in the comics then he can't/shouldn't on screen. As a writer that idea offends me. We've seen it go the other way haven't we? This series has butchered characters like Connors, Electro and Norman Osborn, undermined Uncle Bens importance to Peter, etc, so why can't the writing go in the other direction? Just keeping it in the Spidey-verse, a lot of people's opinions changed about Kraven after DeMatteis' Last Hunt storyline. This stuff ain't new. There is absolutely no excuse to have a character as anemic and uninteresting as Electro was in this film. It's just an insult to intelligent people and ultimately a big waste of time.

Exactly, gents

TASM 2 reduced Electro to a sorry one dimensional caricature. It's all in the writing. They had a top class actor to play him, but gave him one of the worst character scripts ever. What a waste of potential and talent.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Exactly, gents

TASM 2 reduced Electro to a sorry one dimensional caricature. It's all in the writing. They had a top class actor to play him, but gave him one of the worst character scripts ever. What a waste of potential and talent.

i agree with the bolded but come on man... Electro has ALWAYS been pretty one-dimensional. no reduction needed.. he's the same class as "Blizzard, Boomerang, and Speed demon" he just is a popular spidey villain. He's never had much character development beyond being a insanely powerful crook who 9 times out of 10 ends up screwing up his own plans unable to see a bigger picture.. thus usually works for others to give him direction... that's basically electro in a nut-shell of 50 years in comics... he hasn't really changed all that much since conception. in the grand scheme of things he's always just really been a nobody to the rest of the heroes in the marvel universe.. and hardly a threat.. when ironically.. his power could be on gravitron levels.

http://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/what-luke-cage-did-to-electro-2.jpg

 

[OcStat]

The more I reflect about this movie, the more I think:

Almost hurts to say.

But it still has moments I enjoy.

 

[The Joker]

i agree with the bolded but come on man... Electro has ALWAYS been pretty one-dimensional. no reduction needed.. he's the same class as "Blizzard, Boomerang, and Speed demon" he just is a popular spidey villain. He's never had much character development beyond being a insanely powerful crook who 9 times out of 10 ends up screwing up his own plans unable to see a bigger picture.. thus usually works for others to give him direction... that's basically electro in a nut-shell of 50 years in comics... he hasn't really changed all that much since conception. in the grand scheme of things he's always just really been a nobody to the rest of the heroes in the marvel universe.. and hardly a threat.. when ironically.. his power could be on gravitron levels.

Electro has not always been one dimensional. Check out these issues for starters;

Give great character insights and dimension to Electro. And if you're into Spider-Man novels, too, then check out the Adam Troy-Castro Sinister Six novels, because the people behind this franchise sure have since they're using Mr. Fiers who originates from those stories. Electro is awesome in those stories. All of the Six are. Really well rounded multi dimensional insights into Electro and the others.

For argument's sake, even if Electro always was one dimensional, why would you want that as a main villain for your movie? As LEVI pointed out if you have a weak villain and you want to use him as a main antagonist then rewrite him into something better than a one dimensional caricature. Look at what the Batman animated series did to Mr. Freeze.

http://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/what-luke-cage-did-to-electro-2.jpg

Like every Spider-Man villain has not had an embarrassing moment at some point over the decades. Sandman got defeated with a vacuum cleaner for goodness sake lol. That doesn't just go for Spidey villains. Even the Batman villains have had some humiliating defeats and moments.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Electro has not always been one dimensional. Check out these issues for starters;

Give great character insights and dimension to Electro. And if you're into Spider-Man novels, too, then check out the Adam Troy-Castro Sinister Six novels, because the people behind this franchise sure have since they're using Mr. Fiers who originates from those stories. Electro is awesome in those stories. All of the Six are. Really well rounded multi dimensional insights into Electro and the others.

For argument's sake, even if Electro always was one dimensional, why would you want that as a main villain for your movie? As LEVI pointed out if you have a weak villain and you want to use him as a main antagonist then rewrite him into something better than a one dimensional caricature. Look at what the Batman animated series did to Mr. Freeze.



Like every Spider-Man villain has not had an embarrassing moment at some point over the decades. Sandman got defeated with a vacuum cleaner for goodness sake lol. That doesn't just go for Spidey villains. Even the Batman villains have had some humiliating defeats and moments.

I actually own that one of him in the electric chair. it was a good read. But the guy is still a wimp and a coward at heart. The movie touched on some of his personality pretty well it just wasn't executed very well is all. And no never been into the novels... they feel very "elseworlds" and non canological to me... never had an interest.

Ive also stated MANY times already on here, i don't want electro as the main villain of any movie.. i don't think he can carry that spot. He works better working with someone near equal, or being hired by a bigger brain.

 

[LizardMan07]

There's plenty of highly intelligent people who are bat dookie crazy and lack any form of social skills

Yeah, to the level of max?

If so, we've got a name for that

Mental illness....

 

[The Joker]

I actually own that one of him in the electric chair. it was a good read. But the guy is still a wimp and a coward at heart. The movie touched on some of his personality pretty well it just wasn't executed very well is all. And no never been into the novels... they feel very "elseworlds" and non canological to me... never had an interest.

Ive also stated MANY times already on here, i don't want electro as the main villain of any movie.. i don't think he can carry that spot. He works better working with someone near equal, or being hired by a bigger brain.

Being a wimp and a coward at heart doesn't mean the character doesn't have depth and dimension. A lot of criminals are cowards at heart. The whole basis for Batman choosing a Bat as his persona is because criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot. Most of Spider-Man's villains act out their insecurities with their powers in some way. It gives them a superiority complex. Electro's no different.

I wasn't talking about you personally wanting Electro as a main villain, I meant Sony. If they wanted Electro for their main bad guy, and felt that the comic book version just wasn't main villain material, then they shouldn't have used him as a main villain, or they could have rewritten the character into a better version, like what the BTAS team did with Mr. Freeze.

But that wouldn't have been necessary anyway. There's plenty of good material, like my aforementioned examples, that they could have drawn from to make Electro a better more well rounded villain.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, to the level of max?

If so, we've got a name for that

Mental illness....

???????

and? ive called him mentally ill a billion times in this thread

 

[LizardMan07]

???????

and? ive called him mentally ill a billion times in this thread

Then what was the point of your last post exactly?

How did my post confuse the you?

?????? Doesn't help me help you understand what I'm trying to say

 

[Spider-knight]

So what is the sinister six novel about and you think it's based on the spinoff?

 

[Spider-knight]

I also love that electro storyline as it just dwells into electro's origin with his childhood and even manages to intimidate spiderman. But man electro looks ****ing ugly! He looks just as bad as Jamie foxx in that novel. I know electro is a punk but did you have to make him look like he's trying to be a gangster?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Being a wimp and a coward at heart doesn't mean the character doesn't have depth and dimension. A lot of criminals are cowards at heart. The whole basis for Batman choosing a Bat as his persona is because criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot. Most of Spider-Man's villains act out their insecurities with their powers in some way. It gives them a superiority complex. Electro's no different.

I wasn't talking about you personally wanting Electro as a main villain, I meant Sony. If they wanted Electro for their main bad guy, and felt that the comic book version just wasn't main villain material, then they shouldn't have used him as a main villain, or they could have rewritten the character into a better version, like what the BTAS team did with Mr. Freeze.

But that wouldn't have been necessary anyway. There's plenty of good material, like my aforementioned examples, that they could have drawn from to make Electro a better more well rounded villain.

I still feel like Electro for the most part is pretty 1-dimensional.. or just barely above that... and I agree sony shouldn't of pushed him for the main villain. I'm pretty positive Sony is picking villains now based on power sets and visuals over character... this film wreaked of some spider-man 3 decisions... like the opening credits of spidey 3.. i just know the sony big wigs were all about the visual dichademy of the sand vs the tar look of venom.. just as they went gaga over the visuals of a villain who's power is electricity..

In a perfect world we would have gotten a Sandman and Electro team up. I think there powers and personalities would have complimented them well.. and have a man in the shadows playing them like a game of chess

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Then what was the point of your last post exactly?

How did my post confuse the you?

?????? Doesn't help me help you understand what I'm trying to say

because your post didn't make any sense.. it sounded like you were disagreeing or trying to argue with me on something we apparently agree on

 

[Spider-knight]

Being a wimp and a coward at heart doesn't mean the character doesn't have depth and dimension. A lot of criminals are cowards at heart. The whole basis for Batman choosing a Bat as his persona is because criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot. Most of Spider-Man's villains act out their insecurities with their powers in some way. It gives them a superiority complex. Electro's no different.

I wasn't talking about you personally wanting Electro as a main villain, I meant Sony. If they wanted Electro for their main bad guy, and felt that the comic book version just wasn't main villain material, then they shouldn't have used him as a main villain, or they could have rewritten the character into a better version, like what the BTAS team did with Mr. Freeze.

But that wouldn't have been necessary anyway. There's plenty of good material, like my aforementioned examples, that they could have drawn from to make Electro a better more well rounded villain.

The only version of electro who had the greatest depth outside of the comics was in TSSM. I mean that show actually shows the hell Mac was going through and even developed him into a punkish psycho we know in love from the comics.

Also ever notice how the way max gets his powers in the most stupidest ways possible like in the 616 comics he gets zapped by lightning and gets powers. The new animated series the same thing and TSSM even worse with the power malfunctioned and the eels electrocuting you making it into a big ball of powerful electrical explosion. I'm just surprised that version of max isn't burnt to a crisp

 

[W/ Great Power]

In a perfect world we would have gotten a Sandman and Electro team up. I think there powers and personalities would have complimented them well.. and have a man in the shadows playing them like a game of chess

I would have been on board with that

I have to ask though, if that were the case, would you still keep Harry/Goblin in the film or save him for TASM3?

 

[SpideyK]

Rewatched the movie a 6th time.

Still don't hate it. It's a... 7.7/10 for me. Though, what really surprised me this time around was how much I rooted for the villains, and especially Harry. I found myself rooting for him more than Peter about two or three times, while watching.

 

[LizardMan07]

because your post didn't make any sense.. it sounded like you were disagreeing or trying to argue with me on something we apparently agree on

There's plenty of highly intelligent people who are bat dookie crazy and lack any form of social skills

That kinda sounds like you're disagreeing with my Original Post, which was saying the two are mutually exclusive unless they're bridged by mental illness.

If you're weren't, sorry, haha.

 

[LizardMan07]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/24ikdv/the_amazing_spiderman_2_official_discussion/

Reading over some 3 month old reddit discussions about the film...

Bringing back the feels...

Some NSFW language too fellas

 

[Spider-Fan]

Electro being a shallow character in the comics is no excuse for him being a lame villain. That just gives the writers more room to toy with the character and come up with something original. Someone mentioned Kraven's Last Hunt. Fine example. Kraven was not one of Spidey's most memorable villains until that story, but it just took 1 writer to give him depth, and that is a legendary Spider-Man tale.

Electro would be a fine secondary villain, yes. But, if you're going to make him the main villain, please give him a story that doesn't suck or irritate the audience. Electro was awesome visually in the film. They could have even toyed with the idea of Spider-Man being a fraud more effectively. What if during the accident that created Electro, Spider-Man did something to save him that went wrong? Now he can see the false hope Spider-Man creates for people, and his new goal becomes destroying his image. Just doing simple change like that gives Electro more depth than him being a creepy dude or got shot at by random cop (which wasn't Spider-Man's fault) and went nuts. What if he had REASON to be angry? This is just me working with various ideas the film TRIES to utilize, but fails miserably at. If he had a better story, then the already awesome visual elements would have been 100x times more awesome! It just take creativity and imagination.

Good writers work with they have, and they make it work. They don't slap garbage together and say that the character was too one dimensional. At least, not for the MAIN villain.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Yeeeeeeep. Another good CB-CBM change? Iron Man's world...imo, they're so much better than the comics. Even Iron Man himself. Although there's some really good IM stories too, tbh.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

So watched the film tonight for the first time on dvd. Still really enjoyed it. I didnt find electro nearly as bad as I remembered. Max is a bit annoying before hand but I give the film 7.5 /10 everything other than the villains was stellar. I understand complaints but I think they're overly harsh. The film this is mostly comparable to is ironman 2. Which I still really enjoy but both films have the same major complaint. They both spend too much time setting up for future films rather than ironing out the stand alone film. Ironman 2 got better when viewed as a whole in with the proceding films. Hope this follows suit.

There's lots of possible seed planting, from krave, chameleon, black cat, and Normans return. I hope we get to see where it goes. The "foreign gov" wanting richards research im willing to bet are the russians/kravenoffs .

This film doesnt deserve the flame war imo. There's things I wish were different but its far from a horrible film