The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

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I would just prefer eddie to get the cancer back and die. Venom is the cool thing, brock was just the stuffing holding the villain in. The symbiote is much more fun and without eddie around they could actually do some great stuff with it (see venom the series for more on this) rather than have eddie always in the wings to bring venom back to just a moronic one note wonder who's note is rather flat at this point.

Eddie Brock in spectacular spider-man? That was a good version of Venom and if that was him in the 616 I'd dig it, or even ultimate venom was just a better character, but eddie 616 brock? It's just gone beyond the silly pale at this point for why he wants to kill spider-man. Hell he should just be happy he's not in prison for life like he should (thanks daredevil, that was just the best ever) for all those killings and innocents he's murdered both as venom and as just plain eddie "i'm a childish dick" brock.

The thing is, Venom IS Eddie Brock. Everything that we think of when we think of Venom, like the name "Venom", his mouthful of sharp teeth, his claws, were all Eddie Brock's ideas.
 
I found that I prefer the host more than the alien costume as Marvel is really treating the symbiote as a power-suit that can just be passed along from one person to the other, with the symbiote itself having the exact same mindset and vendetta's regardless of how different the current host is. I think the host makes Venom more than the hand-me-down-constantly costume.
 
I found that I prefer the host more than the alien costume as Marvel is really treating the symbiote as a power-suit that can just be passed along from one person to the other, with the symbiote itself having the exact same mindset and vendetta's regardless of how different the current host is. I think the host makes Venom more than the hand-me-down-constantly costume.

Agreed. Marvel seems to treat the symbiote as simple costume and power source, but there's more to it than that. We see how the hosts are affected by the symbiote, but not much of how the symbiote is affected by its host other than some changes in its appearance.
 
As I've said, Eddie Brock IS Venom (even though I love him as Anti-Venom). The fact that Gargan was Venom always pissed me off even though Gargan did some cool things here and there. However, Gargan should have stayed Scorpion. Now with that being said, Flash Thompson as Venom has been working out really well so far if you ask me. Way more fun than Gargan as Venom. Now, if Brock
is going to die, then I think the Symbiot should stick around, but I'm not sure if that will work. I can't really see a different Venom as well as Brock being dead. Even Flash Thompson beign Venom is awesome so far, I just don't know if I want to see the Symbiote continue ith Brock being dead.

I guess we'll jsut have to wait and see.
 
Eddie shouldn't be going anywhere. He'll be a recurring character in Venom, 2012.

I'm not liking Julia as Madame Web. She was always my favorite Spider-Woman (Arachne) and now she's just this brooding, emotionless object that just shows up to narrate things that we're going to see happen anyway. Her personality changed all too suddenly. She acts like she's been this way all her adult life.
 
As I've said, Eddie Brock IS Venom (even though I love him as Anti-Venom). The fact that Gargan was Venom always pissed me off even though Gargan did some cool things here and there. However, Gargan should have stayed Scorpion. Now with that being said, Flash Thompson as Venom has been working out really well so far if you ask me. Way more fun than Gargan as Venom. Now, if Brock
is going to die, then I think the Symbiot should stick around, but I'm not sure if that will work. I can't really see a different Venom as well as Brock being dead. Even Flash Thompson beign Venom is awesome so far, I just don't know if I want to see the Symbiote continue ith Brock being dead.

I guess we'll jsut have to wait and see.

I agree. I like that Flash Thompson is taking a new direction with the symbiote, instead of just copying Eddie Brock's ideas as Mac Gargan did.
 
I was thinking of the same thing prior to Spider-Island even starting; and I even thought that Peter might just end up making a new jamming device in order to "cure" people, not just eliminate the spider-sense, but all the powers. He would just need a very high place to put something like that up, such as the top of the Empire State Building as shown in the cover for Amazing Spider-Man #672.

Such as delivery system--like the spider-sense jammer, perhaps? Also, I'm guessing that since Anti-Venom is the only one who can cure people of their spider-powers, he'll be the one who winds up sacrificing himself for the greater good. After all, what Julia Carpenter said suggested that either Venom or Anti-Venom was going to die, and it's pretty much a no brainier who that's going to be considering how one of them currently has an ongoing series and the other doesn't.

In fairness, I realized that had Spider-Man rebuilt that device used on the Slayers, he would also stun or cause pain to a slew of empowered people who either aren't rampaging or are doing good, like Carlie or Shang Chi. Maybe he could do a smaller, hand-held version with a smaller radius? But, whatever.

That's an interesting call about whether Venom or Anti-Venom would die. I'm not usually a fan of an event that has to provide a Designated Corpse in order to be "important". What makes a story important is how the audience receives it and the aftermath from subsequent stories that it leads to. That said, as others mentioned, the Flash Thompson incarnation of Venom is starring in a modestly successful (for now) spin off ongoing series which should be running after SPIDER-ISLAND is finished. It actually happens to be the most critical of the tie-in's so far, as it revealed who Spider-King was (which ASM has yet to).

I have seen the argument that "Eddie Brock is Venom", but my opinion on that doesn't really matter to a degree - Marvel no longer believes so. They have spent the past 5+ years taking the symbiote away from Brock to slap onto other characters, such as Mac Gargan and now Flash Thompson. Gargan spent years as Venom, and Thompson's series should likely see a 12th issue at this rate, if not more. Thus, Marvel currently believes that Venom is whoever has that specific alien costume, which makes Brock a bit disposable.

It reminds me of a reverse Ghost Rider, if you think about it. Like Ghost Rider, Venom has become an identity that multiple people have utilized - and technically, this wasn't a new thing as Brock's ex-wife briefly wore the costume as "She-Venom" in the late 90's. Her time bonded to it actually traumatized her enough that she killed herself years later. Thus, like Ghost Rider, editorial believes that one of the strongest appeals to Venom is his visual - a claim Todd McFarlane usually cites when he wants more credit for co-creating him in the 80's. However, Marvel has spent several years claiming Johnny Blaze, the original GR, as the most iconic and the one they use the most. Sure, a new female version is GR now, but Blaze is still depicted as the "true" legendary one. Every unique aspect that the Dan Ketch incarnation brought - from the spiked leather jacket to the chains to the Penance Stare to even a hellish looking bike - Blaze "absorbed" and made his own like they were always his (especially after the 2007 film), leaving Ketch a husk without any details that make him unique aside for hair color and angst. Blaze is the Hal Jordon of Ghost Riders to Marvel, if that makes sense. However, they do not feel the same about Venom. And given that the Brock version was so mixed up via inconsistent writing and 90's over-exposure, it's likely no surprise that the Flash version has been so compelling. Even if it does borrow from the "what happens when you stick the alien on someone who isn't insane" motif that was previously used with Hybrid and Toxin (the latter also starred in his own series this decade).

I actually like how Slott writes Brock as Anti-Venom. While the method and explanation as to how Brock still her symbiote-like powers is a bit dodgy (Martin Li touches him and that's it, really), it allows him to retain a similar power set and appearance without being Venom. I also like the angle that Slott is trying to merge all of Brock's stories while playing up the fact that he isn't the picture of sanity. He's trying to do good, fight evil and save the innocent, but because of his violence and his past crimes, he's seen as unstable by everyone. He's battled heroes and villains alike, after all. Yet he's so eager to be taken seriously as a vigilante by Spider-Man that he almost seems cute at times, even as a large nasty monster. He's turned up in the Revengers organized by Wonder Man and one must imagine he'd be tickled pink to be accepted on ANY superhero team, even a misguided one such as that. I actually see a lot of potential in him as a reoccurring guest character, and thus I don't think sacrificing him would maximize that potential.

The only way I see it working as it would complete the subplot that Slott started with him during the prior arc; that despite his past crimes, and despite being violent, misguided, and psychotic, Eddie Brock is sometimes correct, and does sometimes have the right idea or is on the right course. The issue is nobody believes him or backs him up. Thus, the idea that Spider-Man accepts that in a major story again, at least for the first time since the 90's "lethal protector" era, could be interesting. A "noble sacrifice" story could work for Brock if executed properly. And there'd be nothing preventing him from reviving later. He could just "grow" an anti-venom for death if Slott was that dead set.

Still, I see a place in the Marvel universe for a psychotic vigilante who actually manages to dig up crucial dirt, but nobody believes because he's so insane - like the Question on "JLU" (who, in that series, was usually right about his bizarre theories when it mattered). Just with teeth. Many times killing a character off doesn't provide a punch or pivotal moment, but merely stifles character growth or potential stories to a halt until it's undone.

I was a big fan of Eddie Brock as a kid in the 90's and even into college. The misunderstood angle plays well with teenagers. But I grew up and started realizing how wonky some of his stories were, and all that. I have enjoyed the Flash Thompson version for the moment, and feel he has become a very good lead hero in his own right. The only way it'd be better would be if he met John Walker; two wounded warriors trading war stories, with secrets to hide. It'd be a solid one shot.
 
The thing is, Venom IS Eddie Brock. Everything that we think of when we think of Venom, like the name "Venom", his mouthful of sharp teeth, his claws, were all Eddie Brock's ideas.

In your eyes, in mine venom is the symbiote. Eddie is just stuffing and he's rotten stuffing at that. Anybody bonded with the symbiote would do as well if not better.

The suit took that appearence because it was manifesting new emotional feelings based on eddie's baseness. It became a monster because that's what eddie is. It's just reflections of a nasty child's ID, not ideas.

But in a way I'm with you. Venom should evolve beyond that look into something more frightening (when it's bonded or gone evil) than just a spider-man with teeth and claws. It can resemble anything, marvel should run with that.

You dig eddie and that's fine, I would just much prefer if he finally got on with it, died and they could let the awesomeness of the current venom book continue without the dagger of eddie taking the suit back and returning the title to suckiness hanging over his head.
 
Well, we can't know if Eddie's (re)run as Venom would just automatically suck. Just like we can't know how long Marvel can keep Flash consistantly good (you always have to consider the risk of the current writer leaving and someone else coming in and derailing the series). You're only assuming if Eddie took over the title it would go the s*** without considering the possiblity that, just maybe, Marvel actually produced something worthwhile out of the turn of events. A good writer and good direction is all he needs. Just saying, if he did return to being Venom and continued the Venom ongoing, he would have to play a role(s) beyond hating Spider-Man. No way he would have an ongoing where he's just trying to kill Spider-Man for a years worth of issues.
 
We don't know for sure but we've got years and years of precedence in place that say it will.

Flash is good cause he's a good character that's being fleshed out, has a good supporting cast and tons of great action. I've enjoyed any one issue of this venom series to any stand alone featuring venom as brock (except maybe the vault, which was great but an ensemble piece).

I'm assuming if eddie took the title it would go to **** cause eddie is a **** character with such a stupid motivation that's been compounded that even shakespeare couldn't do anything great with him.

Right now we've got a venom that plays a role beyond just trying to kill spider-man and you know what? It's awesome. I also like the idea of a service vet (especially a crippled one) getting his due rather than just being some piece to play on emotions. A real hero both with or without superpowers with real depth of character. Basically everything eddie brock has never even come close to.
 
So what say you on Anti-Venom? Do you have any opinion on his current status quo?
 
He's pretty much like venom lethal protector. And it's a bit of an odd concept. I mean if venom is a dark version of spider-man and anti-venom is a light version of venom then it's just an odd circle isn't it? All and all, I don't like eddie brock (at least the 616 version of him, the spectacular or ultimate version I dig) as a character and there isn't much to be done about him unless he sacrifices a marriage to get a new backstory and past that could be interesting or maybe just not stupid.
 
In your eyes, in mine venom is the symbiote. Eddie is just stuffing and he's rotten stuffing at that. Anybody bonded with the symbiote would do as well if not better.

The suit took that appearence because it was manifesting new emotional feelings based on eddie's baseness. It became a monster because that's what eddie is. It's just reflections of a nasty child's ID, not ideas.

But in a way I'm with you. Venom should evolve beyond that look into something more frightening (when it's bonded or gone evil) than just a spider-man with teeth and claws. It can resemble anything, marvel should run with that.

You dig eddie and that's fine, I would just much prefer if he finally got on with it, died and they could let the awesomeness of the current venom book continue without the dagger of eddie taking the suit back and returning the title to suckiness hanging over his head.

As far as Venom's appearance, I find Eddie's Venom's look plenty frightening. It's somewhat simple, yet elegant. Teeth and claws bring forth primal imagery of predatory animals, calling back to a time when man himself was hunted.
Humans, as a species, we don't have many evolutionary weapons. Our teeth are good, but our bite pales in comparison to other primates. We have no real claws, just nails. We have to compensate with our ability to improvise weapons due to our greater intelligence. In this way, Venom's teeth and claws imply this predator-prey relationship with Spider-Man. Just like our ancestors had outwit their predators with tools, Spider-Man must outwit Venom to beat him, often with tools like sonic guns and flamethrowers.

Well, we can't know if Eddie's (re)run as Venom would just automatically suck. Just like we can't know how long Marvel can keep Flash consistantly good (you always have to consider the risk of the current writer leaving and someone else coming in and derailing the series). You're only assuming if Eddie took over the title it would go the s*** without considering the possiblity that, just maybe, Marvel actually produced something worthwhile out of the turn of events. A good writer and good direction is all he needs. Just saying, if he did return to being Venom and continued the Venom ongoing, he would have to play a role(s) beyond hating Spider-Man. No way he would have an ongoing where he's just trying to kill Spider-Man for a years worth of issues.

Agreed.
 
I don't think either of them will. Who knows?
I hope neither of them will. (I only have read Anti-Venom)
But if so, guess thats why he (AV) was left out of MVC3

Then again, Beenox is using him (Antivenom) for Edge of Time. Maybe to try and show people the new Eddie Brock?
 
When did Mac Gargan abandon his initial Venom look?
He used to look something like this:
476509-86919_109559_venom_super.jpg

420450-ASM570_COV.jpg

837782-mua2_venom1.jpg


But by the end of his term as Venom, he pretty much looked like Eddie Brock's Venom, albeit with sunken eyes:
845141-so_gross.jpg


And what happened to his scorpion tail from Beyond!?
832461-venom__gargan__3.jpg

I thought it was a neat addition of Mac Gargan bringing his own spin on Venom, instead of just copying Eddie Brock.
 
In Dark Avengers. Norman gave him a shot so he would look like the normal Spider-Man in the black costume. When he wigged out and became Venom-ous, he looked like Brock used to.
 
Speaking of Eddie Brock possibly being killed off, I'm also getting the feeling that Marvel is going to to do something else in Spider-Island that they teased at in the letter's pages.

That Mary Jane is also going to be killed off, as well.

You've got the letters page from issue #666 in which author of one of the letters--as part of her tongue-in-cheek proposal for becoming Spidey's new sidekick--writes:

However, we do have a problem. It's called Mary Jane. Now I know that no one would miss her anyway, so I was just thinking we could kill her off. She get's in the way of Spidey's focus anyway.

And the response was:

As for your hopes for Mary Jane...you've been reading ahead, haven't you?

Then, in issue #668, another fan asked these questions:

Does anything happen between Mary Jane and Peter during Spider-Island? If so, it would be a miracle if something happens that might reboot their relationship (or even marriage)?

Last but not least: I know I've already mentioned this, sort of, but are Peter and MJ ever going to get married (again) any time in the next couple of months (no rush)? I'd love to see them get back together during the events of Spider-Island. I seen bunches of preview images from Spider-Island, and found one with Reed Richards and Mary Jane. What's that all about? Maybe just Peter sending Mary Jane to the Baxter Building so she will be protected by the FF?

And the responses to both:

LOTS happens between Peter and MJ in Spider-Island. As for romance...that MAY not be possible.

Phew. That one's a lot! You're asking too much, my man! We gotta SAVE something for the stories! I can tell you that there's no marriage in the CARDS.

And yes, those capitalized words were capitalized in the responses.

And I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I'm thinking Spidey may end up killing someone after all, probably whoever the mysterious woman is, as hinted in this question and answer in the letter's pages for issue #668:

Q: Is anything bad going to happen to Carlie soon because Carlie is not Peter's best match for a girlfriend?

A: Carlie and Pete are a great match...particularly since she now has Spidey powers! She's smart, brave and beautiful. Anyone would KILL for a girlfriend like Carlie.
 
In Dark Avengers. Norman gave him a shot so he would look like the normal Spider-Man in the black costume. When he wigged out and became Venom-ous, he looked like Brock used to.

Well, I missed his old look. After that point, he looks so much like Eddie Brock that, out of context, it's hard to determine which one I'm looking at without looking for the small detail of the eyes-in-the-lenses.

Also, what about the tongue? When did Mac Gargan form the tongue? It wasn't present in his debut in Venomous.

Why did they get rid of the tail? Was it just not cool enough?
 
Speaking of Eddie Brock possibly being killed off, I'm also getting the feeling that Marvel is going to to do something else in Spider-Island that they teased at in the letter's pages.

That Mary Jane is also going to be killed off, as well.

That's a terrible idea and they will be doing Carlie 0 favors. If they want fans to accept her, killing MJ would not help the cause. People are nitpicking at any little thing now to complain about Carlie, they do this and it will negatively escalate in light frigging speed.

I have a feeling they will do it anyway because they have phased her out of the book so much it's almost worse than the early days of JMS' run. I'm getting the same vibe as when Nightcrawler was killed in Second Coming.

Well, I missed his old look. After that point, he looks so much like Eddie Brock that, out of context, it's hard to determine which one I'm looking at without looking for the small detail of the eyes-in-the-lenses.

Also, what about the tongue? When did Mac Gargan form the tongue? It wasn't present in his debut in Venomous.

Why did they get rid of the tail? Was it just not cool enough?

The tongue was always around as far as I remember. It's a key part of the alien since Erik Larsen added it a long time ago. Some artists like JRJR omit it from time to time.

The tail was gone either in ASM's New Ways to Die or Dark Avengers #1. Both times Norman had messed with the symbiotes makeup in some fashion.

Personally, I hated Gargan as Venom. I thought it was a cop out. Make the Scorpion character work, don't take it away and make a hybrid from another villain.
 
That's a terrible idea and they will be doing Carlie 0 favors. If they want fans to accept her, killing MJ would not help the cause. People are nitpicking at any little thing now to complain about Carlie, they do this and it will negatively escalate in light frigging speed.

I have a feeling they will do it anyway because they have phased her out of the book so much it's almost worse than the early days of JMS' run. I'm getting the same vibe as when Nightcrawler was killed in Second Coming.

Agreed.

The tongue was always around as far as I remember. It's a key part of the alien since Erik Larsen added it a long time ago. Some artists like JRJR omit it from time to time.

The tongue was considered to be a part of Venom's look as a character, but I thought that Venom III was designed to omit it.
86827-92666-venom.png

Personally, I like a more conservative Venom design. My favorites are Todd McFarlane and Mark Bagley. They look monstrous without going over the top to the point it becomes distracting.
1304513949_0e03b515bd.jpg

venom.jpg

venom.jpg

amspider-man375.jpg


The tail was gone either in ASM's New Ways to Die or Dark Avengers #1. Both times Norman had messed with the symbiotes makeup in some fashion.

That's a shame. To me, it was an interesting personal touch for Gargan.

Personally, I hated Gargan as Venom. I thought it was a cop out. Make the Scorpion character work, don't take it away and make a hybrid from another villain.

I'm not a big fan of the idea either, but I could have given them some slack if they had actually used the opportunity to make Scorpion into a very threatening and menacing villain, but it was a missed opportunity.
I hated the execution of Gargan being Venom. One of the cornerstones of the Venom character is being a badass, but Mac Gargan was an overpowered chump. Without badassery, Venom loses a lot of his purpose and significance. Gargan was a walking anti-climax.
 
That's a terrible idea and they will be doing Carlie 0 favors. If they want fans to accept her, killing MJ would not help the cause. People are nitpicking at any little thing now to complain about Carlie, they do this and it will negatively escalate in light frigging speed.

That and also give readers the impression that, aside from attempting to make Spider-Island important by killing off a notable and popular supporting cast member, that Marvel has no idea what to do with Mary Jane as a character ever since they erased her and Peter's marriage with One More Day and One Moment in Time. Not to mention the last time Marvel killed off Mary Jane back during when Howard Mackie was on the title, it proved to be disastrous, and if they actually do it again, I agree that it would not only be a terrible idea, but even worse the second time around.

I have a feeling they will do it anyway because they have phased her out of the book so much it's almost worse than the early days of JMS' run. I'm getting the same vibe as when Nightcrawler was killed in Second Coming.

And notice how Marvel has brought Nightcrawler back? Granted, it's a Nightcrawler from an alternate dimension, but even so. Likewise, they're even hinting at Cable returning. So sooner or later, if Mary Jane gets killed off in Spider-Island, eventually they'll have to bring her back--especially if they lose readers over such a move.
 
That Mary Jane is also going to be killed off, as well.

You've got the letters page from issue #666 in which author of one of the letters--as part of her tongue-in-cheek proposal for becoming Spidey's new sidekick--writes:


Quote:
However, we do have a problem. It's called Mary Jane. Now I know that no one would miss her anyway, so I was just thinking we could kill her off. She get's in the way of Spidey's focus anyway.
And the response was:


Quote:
As for your hopes for Mary Jane...you've been reading ahead, haven't you?
Then, in issue #668, another fan asked these questions:


Quote:
Does anything happen between Mary Jane and Peter during Spider-Island? If so, it would be a miracle if something happens that might reboot their relationship (or even marriage)?

Last but not least: I know I've already mentioned this, sort of, but are Peter and MJ ever going to get married (again) any time in the next couple of months (no rush)? I'd love to see them get back together during the events of Spider-Island. I seen bunches of preview images from Spider-Island, and found one with Reed Richards and Mary Jane. What's that all about? Maybe just Peter sending Mary Jane to the Baxter Building so she will be protected by the FF?
And the responses to both:


Quote:
LOTS happens between Peter and MJ in Spider-Island. As for romance...that MAY not be possible.

Phew. That one's a lot! You're asking too much, my man! We gotta SAVE something for the stories! I can tell you that there's no marriage in the CARDS.
And yes, those capitalized words were capitalized in the responses.

And I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I'm thinking Spidey may end up killing someone after all, probably whoever the mysterious woman is, as hinted in this question and answer in the letter's pages for issue #668:


Quote:
Q: Is anything bad going to happen to Carlie soon because Carlie is not Peter's best match for a girlfriend?

A: Carlie and Pete are a great match...particularly since she now has Spidey powers! She's smart, brave and beautiful. Anyone would KILL for a girlfriend like Carlie.



Carlie is soooooo perfect.....I wonder if it has to do with her being based off Joe Qs daughter? HMMMMMMMMMM

Dude, if they killed off MJ theyd be facing rage almost if not the same as when they killed off Ultimate Spidey
 
I do agree that Venom's design was very cool before Marvel started going too insane with the tongue, drool, and fangs - which started during Erik Larson's run if memory serves. Which is a little odd as overall I did like Larson's run. But that legacy perhaps wasn't one of them.

I agree with the criticism about Julie as Madam Web; she's essentially talking in what I call "Mentor". That is, her dialogue is often exposition, told in riddles, that doesn't usually do more than vaguely foreshadow something. I mean, what happened to her daughter? Her romance with Shroud? Those were plot points as recently as 2007-2008.

I sincerely hope that MJ isn't the sacrificial lamb. Again, why do we need one? Stories can and have been good and important without one. It would be a bad, divisive move at the wrong time.
 
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