The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

[WolfCypher]

As of right now, it has been revealed that Spider-King is Steve Rogers. If there is a red herring somewhere, it hasn't been unveiled, so so far Spider-King is Steve. They (the Venom Government guys) searched its genetics or something like that and it came up as Steve.

 

[Dread]

Number 6 could also be the original Gwen clone (Joyce Delaney) or one of the Gwen/Norman kids. Ben Reilly does still seem the likely suspect though.

Did anybody get Spider-Island Deadly Foes? Apparently there was new info on the Delaney Gwen clone and another previously unknown Gwen clone. I'm gonna have to get it now....

My shop didn't get it, and I haven't felt like chasing it down. I was partly interested.

I'm still not clear on the whole Captain America is Spider-King angle. Is that really Steve or is it just that Venom's team thinks he is? Did Jackal just mix Spider-Man and Steve's DNA to create Spider-King?

As of right now, it has been revealed that Spider-King is Steve Rogers. If there is a red herring somewhere, it hasn't been unveiled, so so far Spider-King is Steve. They (the Venom Government guys) searched its genetics or something like that and it came up as Steve.

The only "herring" is that if Spider-King was created from a clone of Steve Rogers, then a government blood test would have still read Spider-King as "Steve Rogers/Captain America" even if it was a clone. Since they didn't know.

Amusingly, Red Skull transferred his consciousness to a cloned body of Rogers for years, up until Lukin had Winter Soldier kill him in Brubaker's debut on CAPTAIN AMERICA if memory serves. So if while in that body, if anyone took a blood sample, they'd have likely gotten "Steve Rogers" as a hit on a comp, too.

If Spider-King is the real Cap mutated, then it certainly plays continuity havoc with FEAR ITSELF, SECRET AVENGERS, CAPTAIN AMERICA, AVENGERS, or no end of places where Rogers shows up. Of course, so do a lot of Wolverine or Spidey appearances in other titles. If it was a clone, though, that frees things up. It also explains why Jackal would be so thrilled; if his "spider bite" can turn hum-drum humans into Spider-Men (and Women), then doing so to a "perfect super soldier" version would naturally create Spider-King.

 

[runawayboulder]

The only "herring" is that if Spider-King was created from a clone of Steve Rogers, then a government blood test would have still read Spider-King as "Steve Rogers/Captain America" even if it was a clone. Since they didn't know.

Amusingly, Red Skull transferred his consciousness to a cloned body of Rogers for years, up until Lukin had Winter Soldier kill him in Brubaker's debut on CAPTAIN AMERICA if memory serves. So if while in that body, if anyone took a blood sample, they'd have likely gotten "Steve Rogers" as a hit on a comp, too.

If Spider-King is the real Cap mutated, then it certainly plays continuity havoc with FEAR ITSELF, SECRET AVENGERS, CAPTAIN AMERICA, AVENGERS, or no end of places where Rogers shows up. Of course, so do a lot of Wolverine or Spidey appearances in other titles. If it was a clone, though, that frees things up. It also explains why Jackal would be so thrilled; if his "spider bite" can turn hum-drum humans into Spider-Men (and Women), then doing so to a "perfect super soldier" version would naturally create Spider-King.

That's why I think it's not really Steve. His blood has been taken and sampled numerous times through history so it wouldn't be too hard for somebody to nab a teeny tiny bit for some DNA. It seemed like most were outright convinced that SK was Steve based on Venom #6. When I first read it I thought it wasn't a closed issue, the release of the book before ASM confused things even more.

But back to Red Skull, it does bring up the point on how he might come back one day. Waaaaaaay back in Cap #350, John Byrne did a back up story explaining how Skull and Zola got that cloned body of Steve for the Skull (who was in his original elderly body before that). What's to say they didn't create a few backups that were never used? Additionally, what's to say Zola didn't sell one to the Jackal?

 

[Themanofbat]

If Mr. Fantastic is willing to keep "Number 6" a secret, then unless Slott has decided to write him as being an incredible reckless jerk, "Number 6" can't be an outright villain. Still, hiding Reilly from Peter wouldn't be kind, either. Especially since Reed is so happy to have his father back, even though his father's previous affairs with his family often brought sinister things to them. How Reilly survived being gored by a Goblin Glider and turning to dust afterward would be quite a retcon without the word "magic" involved.

I think it's very possible that the "Number 6" genius is simply Miles Warren... I don't believe his identity as the Jackal is public knowledge... an it's not like Peter Parker is going to tell every aspect of his personal life, especially when you consider how "personal" it got back in the 70's... which would explain Reed's nonechalant approach to the person's secret...

Dr. Octopus is possible, given that Reed sought his aid to try to save Susan's first child, who was stillborn. But, it would still be reckless for him to not try to capture Ock, given that he did breach the Baxtor Building.

That was Sue's "second" child... not her first...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I think it's very possible that the "Number 6" genius is simply Miles Warren... I don't believe his identity as the Jackal is public knowledge... an it's not like Peter Parker is going to tell every aspect of his personal life, especially when you consider how "personal" it got back in the 70's... which would explain Reed's nonechalant approach to the person's secret...

This is my thinking as well, when I saw the comment about "Number 6" not being a villain. I don't think Reed knows who Warren is.

And as I said previously, I believe the Spider-King is Steve Rogers clone as well.

 

[Will Nolte]

Number 6 could also be the original Gwen clone (Joyce Delaney) or one of the Gwen/Norman kids. Ben Reilly does still seem the likely suspect though.

Did anybody get Spider-Island Deadly Foes? Apparently there was new info on the Delaney Gwen clone and another previously unknown Gwen clone. I'm gonna have to get it now....

Spoiler

Joyce Delaney was shot and killed by a sniper's bullet fried by the Kaine-like Gwen clone in Deadly Foes. The Kaine-like Gwen was later killed by the Tarantula-like Kaine in the same issue.

 

[Dread]

That's why I think it's not really Steve. His blood has been taken and sampled numerous times through history so it wouldn't be too hard for somebody to nab a teeny tiny bit for some DNA. It seemed like most were outright convinced that SK was Steve based on Venom #6. When I first read it I thought it wasn't a closed issue, the release of the book before ASM confused things even more.

But back to Red Skull, it does bring up the point on how he might come back one day. Waaaaaaay back in Cap #350, John Byrne did a back up story explaining how Skull and Zola got that cloned body of Steve for the Skull (who was in his original elderly body before that). What's to say they didn't create a few backups that were never used? Additionally, what's to say Zola didn't sell one to the Jackal?

Plus, it isn't as if Cap has never been injured in a fight or Jackal (or his "superior" couldn't get a hair or something somewhere). Clones are what he does.

VENOM #6 coming out before this issue was a bit of a gaffe, but I don't think it was unintentional. Nobody was late or anything. Marvel planned it like that. In fairness, I've seen much worse. CIVIL WAR, anyone?

I think it's very possible that the "Number 6" genius is simply Miles Warren... I don't believe his identity as the Jackal is public knowledge... an it's not like Peter Parker is going to tell every aspect of his personal life, especially when you consider how "personal" it got back in the 70's... which would explain Reed's nonechalant approach to the person's secret...

That was Sue's "second" child... not her first...

Right, her second child.

Number 6 being Miles Warren might be a bit of an anti-climax given that Jackal is back and he has Miles clones running all over. Anti-climaxes rarely work in any medium that isn't a novel.

Maybe it's The Living Brain.

 

[Will Nolte]

Ok, bear with me here, as I know people must be getting annoyed with my mentioning of him all the time...but here we go:

Number 6 is SPIDERCIDE, placed there by Reed Richards himself. Think about it, what if Reed Richards worked with the goo that 'Cide had become and did a little tweaking on his personality. 'Cide could have been placed there by Richards himself, who wanted it all done in secrecy, which would explain his nonchalant attitude towards the subject. It would also explain his "More qualified than you comment". Cause really, who would be more qualified than someone with Peter's intelligence, as well as inside knowledge on the Jackal himself.

This certainly would be an interesting twist if written properly...

 

[SpideyInATree]

I read the latest issue and I was left feeling a bit...disappointed?

I've really enjoyed Slott's run and he writes a great Peter Parker/Spider-Man but when Carlie Cooper...yes, CARLIE freakin' COOPER figures out, "Oh, The Jackal is behind this..." before Peter does...you've REALLY lost me! I'm indifferent on Carlie Cooper but I do have to agree with a certain section of fans that now we are being beat over the head with this character. I mean...is this book the Amazing Spider-Man or the Amazing Carlie Cooper?

For months on Twitter I've seen how Dan has talked up Ramos' work, which got me excited...but...I've seen Ramos do A LOT better than this. In his Peter Parker Spider-Man run his work was ASTOUNDING...this is way short of that in my opinion. Maybe it's the inker...maybe the colors...but I've seen Ramos do a lot better. I know Dan is excited about this and seeing his artist turn in great work but...there is just something missing.

Plus there are a lot of holes in this. I can understand, to an extent, why people are having organic webbing but how Peter REMEMBERS having organic webbing himself, which I was under the impression that was wiped under the rug, boggles the mind.

The book has kind of taken a turn for me and it's not a turn I like, honestly. Slott's run was very exciting and he's done a lot of interesting things with Peter but lately he's losing me. That FF and Avengers Academy crossover kind of took me out. Things got back on track but...the past couple of issues just have me shrugging my shoulders.

Marvel does realize that DC is restarting their universe, right? I've been reading a lot of advanced reviews for those books and, honestly, I'd like to be getting those too. With money being tight I do need to release some titles and with Spider-Man being released twice a month, and it not really doing much for me, that frees up two DC books I can now get...so, Dan...I know you're bringing your A game for this and I hope that things get explained and tightened up in the next couple of issues. If not...I...for the first time since the death of Ben Reilly will have to drop Spider-Man.

And what's up with the order of the books being released? I read Venom # 6 weeks ago and in the latest issue of ASM those events haven't even taken place yet.

I'll be sticking around to see how Spider-Island goes but if things keep going the way they are Make Mine DC, Image, or Indie.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

The thing about Pete saying, "Of course, Miles Warren! How come I didn't think of him?" is, um, how about because Pete saw him die?

 

[spiderbob]

The thing about Pete saying, "Of course, Miles Warren! How come I didn't think of him?" is, um, how about because Pete saw him die?

Yeah, that's still bugging me, because now I'm feeling like I missed a resurrection/explanation as to why he's back, yet I can't recall such an explanation ever being released. Last I heard, Miles fell off a building laughing like an idiot and then went splat!
I'd think Peter would be a little more surprised that he's back, given that he saw him die.
But then again, maybe he's just so used to villains coming back that it just doesn't phase him anymore. Especially villains involved in cloning.

Heck, I bet he has a pool going with the Avengers on when certain villains return.

 

[spiderbob]

I read the latest issue and I was left feeling a bit...disappointed?

I'll be sticking around to see how Spider-Island goes but if things keep going the way they are Make Mine DC, Image, or Indie.

Sorry to hear that SpideyInATree. Hopefully, SpiderIsland will live up to the hype. I'd hate for the medicinal response to OMD be the thing that kills your Spidey purchases.

 

[SpideyInATree]

The thing about Pete saying, "Of course, Miles Warren! How come I didn't think of him?" is, um, how about because Pete saw him die?

Yeah, I do understand that. I understand it well but I still don't get how Carlie Cooper figures it out like it was mere elementary, Watson.

 

[Themanofbat]

Peter remembers having orgamic webbing... obviously from the latest issue's comments... he just lost them in an "as of yet" unexplained event... I bet it all comes down to he used it all up in that issue of OMD where he webbed up Iron Man...

 

[SpideyInATree]

Well, I'll be waiting for it to be explained then. However, may not happen with Carlie Cooper now being the main character.

 

[spiderbob]

Peter remembers having orgamic webbing... obviously from the latest issue's comments... he just lost them in an "as of yet" unexplained event... I bet it all comes down to he used it all up in that issue of OMD where he webbed up Iron Man...

And switched off a starch filled diet so that he's unable to make himself 'full' again.

 

[runawayboulder]

Some folks will take any little opening to hate Carlie.......

She clearly says that the Jackal thing is a theory based on the events occurring along with facts that there's a bad guy with a history of bio-engineering skills that has a known history with Spider-Man. The NYPD has files on this stuff, their SWAT team was hunting Spider-Man and the Jackal during Maximum Clonage. Plus, the Jackal has been caught a few times and institutionalized at Ravencroft, so it's well known that his aka is Miles Warren. Carlie is a cop - she would have easy access to all of that info.

Whoop-dee-do, she one upped Pete at his own game, it much to do about nothing. She's a smart cop, it's been established several times already with the Mysterio and Jean DeWolff arcs.

Complain when she puts on the tights full time and Pete runs off to Oregon again.

 

[Themanofbat]

Yep...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

She clearly says that the Jackal thing is a theory based on the events occurring along with facts that there's a bad guy with a history of bio-engineering skills that has a known history with Spider-Man. The NYPD has files on this stuff, their SWAT team was hunting Spider-Man and the Jackal during Maximum Clonage. Plus, the Jackal has been caught a few times and institutionalized at Ravencroft, so it's well known that his aka is Miles Warren. Carlie is a cop - she would have easy access to all of that info.

I don't recall this?

 

[WolfCypher]

I'm not reading all the Spider-Island tie-ins soo...has any of them mentioned where the Jackal's been? How he came back?

 

[Dread]

While I'm not the one who looks for any reason to hate Carlie, I would have preferred she not be the one who guessed about investigating Miles Warren, either in person or one of his old lair's. Sure, Peter presumed he was dead, but the guy was all about clones. One never knew which was the real Miles and which was a clone any time they battled at the end stage - same with Dr. Doom and his Doombots. While this isn't literal cloning, having an army of Spidey-imposters show up is his M.O. While Slott does a great job showcasing Spidey's brains when it comes to building gadgets or gear, he sometimes seems to struggle with general cunning. There's more to smarts than building gadgets.

But while we're on the subject of gadgets - couldn't Spidey have rebuilt the device he used against Spider-Slayer and Scorpion? He's already lost his "spider-sense", so what further harm could it do to him? It'd have eliminated that advantage from the "Spider-Gang" and likely disoriented them for a few moments - allowing the Avengers, Young Allies, FF, and Storm an easier time to defeat them. I still liked the moment where Peter rallied the "non-evil" Spider-people to aid the heroes in civilian attire - I liked that it showed that Peter Parker could be a hero without being Spider-Man. But, that device would have been handy.

The promotional tag line for this event was, "If everyone has spider-powers, no one is Spider-Man". Which is a bit absurd. "If everyone is wearing a striped shirt and hat, then no one is Waldo," would be equally absurd. In fairness, I imagine the point of this story is to show that this isn't true. And from some dialogue in this issue, I imagine everyone who has been "enhanced" by Jackal's bugs may mutate further.

Hey, why isn't Iron Man busting out the power - negating SPIN tech or SHIELD isn't utilizing their cape-killers? It'd actually be useful now. I guess J.J.'s anti-spider forces are enough.

Apparently, Anti-Venom can cure anyone "infected", which may become key later on. Maybe Peter will figure out a gadget to expand his range?

 

[runawayboulder]

I don't recall this?

It was the last few pages at the end when they were busting into the hideout. Pete then went on to acknowledge that not only Carlie but Madam Web, Cage, Reed and his boss Max led him by the nose all day. So if you're going to hate her, hate them as well....it's only fair. Pete is always the last one to find out about stuff. He's been like that since ASM's first issue.

As for the rest - I was referring to the events in Maximum Cloneage Alpha and Web of Spider-Man #127 which was Max Cloneage pt 2.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

It was the last few pages at the end when they were busting into the hideout. Pete then went on to acknowledge that not only Carlie but Madam Web, Cage, Reed and his boss Max led him by the nose all day. So if you're going to hate her, hate them as well....it's only fair. Pete is always the last one to find out about stuff. He's been like that since ASM's first issue.

As for the rest - I was referring to the events in Maximum Cloneage Alpha and Web of Spider-Man #127 which was Max Cloneage pt 2.

I was specifically referring to Jackal being arrested and being sent to Ravencroft. I don't remember that. I'll take your word on it. Maybe I was too mad at the time because Ben was the real Peter Parker at the time.

Or maybe it's old age.

The promotional tag line for this event was, "If everyone has spider-powers, no one is Spider-Man". Which is a bit absurd. "If everyone is wearing a striped shirt and hat, then no one is Waldo," would be equally absurd. In fairness, I imagine the point of this story is to show that this isn't true. And from some dialogue in this issue, I imagine everyone who has been "enhanced" by Jackal's bugs may mutate further.

I think they meant that as a play on "if everybody is special, no one is."

 

[runawayboulder]

I was specifically referring to Jackal being arrested and being sent to Ravencroft. I don't remember that. I'll take your word on it. Maybe I was too mad at the time because Ben was the real Peter Parker at the time.

Or maybe it's old age.

That also happened at some point during the Clone Saga, I just can't remember specifically when, most likely before Max Cloneage.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The thing about Pete saying, "Of course, Miles Warren! How come I didn't think of him?" is, um, how about because Pete saw him die?

Saying you saw the only guy in the MU to perfectly complete cloning die is kinda short sighted. And that's even disregarding the fact that every major and several minor villains that Peter's seen die have come back at least once, without being able to perfectly clone themselves from the start.



The other thing about the organic webbing, so far it seems like all his other powers are there or at least have been there. Peter can still do that thing where other parts of his body are sticky (as shown by the way he kept his mask on when around anti-venom). It does seem odd how easily all these people can use the spider-powers and web swing like naturals. I would think they'd all have the strength and speed thing down right from the start, but some of the other stuff took peter a while to get down and perfect. So that is a bit annoying to see a bunch of people (not just carlie, but everyone) doing like naturals.