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Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episodes I - III' started by Doc Ock, Oct 31, 2012.
Are you sure that wasn't just because they found the blu-rays someone threw away?
Ugh, that scene.
Out of all the leads Natalie Portman got away the best out of the prequels. Unlike Hayden Christensen who will probably never outlive his performance. I kinda feel bad for him to an extent. In addition to not being a great actor he was cast in an incredibly iconic role that was terribly written. Lucas is more to blame.
Not necessarily hate but the Jedi Alliance podcast made some great suggestions on things they would've changed.
He goes from 'oh my god, what have I done' to 'yes master I will do anything you say to protect Padme' to 'agree all the Jedi must die' to 'everyone is against me, including my wife and best friend'. There just doesn't seem to be any explanation other than he has completely in a second just flipped on a dime about everything he believes in and thinks!
Well there is a legitimate effect that the dark side has on a person. So once he started letting the dark side of the force in, and considering who he is and how connected to the Force he is, it isn't all that unbelievable that it would consume him very quickly. A better script would have gotten that across better tho. No denying that.
That's an incredibly fallacious statement. You wouldn't say the same about a wife staying with her cheating abusive husband just because he made her happy decades ago. Lucas hasn't made a film that's had a positive reception really since Return of the Jedi in 83. That Warrick Davis movie, Howard the Duck, The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Crystal Skull, Red Tails, and that new animated film all had negative to flat out terrible receptions- to the point Howard the Duck has a cult following for being so bad.
The only two accessions to this are The Last Crusade in 89 (which was also a Spielberg film released in his prime) and Revenge of the Sith (which is still very controversial amongst fans).
The fact is there are two types of people who like the prequels:
1. People who see the genuine high points of these films- that everyone should really acknowledge, regardless of their preference on the final product.
2. People who will like anything Star Wars regardless.
As well there are two type of people who dislike the prequels:
1. People who see genuine flaws in these films- that everyone should acknowledge, regardless of their preference on the final product.
2. People who hate anything new.
See both extremes are bad and are a result of one not thinking for themselves.
The cons that are impossible to dispute beyond the "lala I'm not going to listen to you" defense:
The films had terribly written dialogue.
They were not structured in a traditional sense- which many consider to be a standard used to judge a movie's quality.
The shot composition and direction was lazy and none of the exposition is given through action or communication during events, it's given in conversations taking place as the actors slowly pace around or sit down on a couch.
Everything is shot in shot reverse shot
The outline of events from the original trilogy is called into question
Lucas horribly directed the Oscar winner Natalie Portman and the decent Hayden Christensen, while only allowing classically trained actors he respected (Christopher Lee and Ian McDirmott) to challenge him.
The pros that are impossible to dispute beyond the "lala I'm not going to listen to you" defense:
Ian McDirmott as the Emperor
Darth Plagueis the Wise's story
The duel of fates
The Space Battle in Sith
Ewan McGreggor as Obi-Wan
The ground breaking CGI effects
The guys who played most of the extras and minor characters in Phantom Menace
Zod as Valorem
People who defend these movies get way too defensive. I find it impossible to believe a grown man who's ever been on a successful date or has laid with a woman actually thinks the love story in Clones was engaging or anything short of uncomfortable. I find it hard to believe anyone though the shot choreography was interesting or inspired. I find it hard to believe none of these criticisms strike a cord with any of you.
Look no one is saying you guys can't like these movies, I also think people who say anything negative about any of the good qualities I listed are not simply being closed minded. The point is there's legitimate criticism to be made and you can recognize these flaws without changing your stance that you like these movies. Too many people take constructive criticism as some sort of personal affront to their livelihood.
By the same token, too many people take subpar movies as some sort of personal affront to their childhood and can never seem to let it go. The wheel goes round and round...
Good post though HarryOsborn, fair points, and less extremism from both sides would be ideal.
Yeah, as much as I dislike the prequels as the special editions holding on to the hatred and letting it curdle into bitterness is just wrong. My love of Star Wars goes deep and I understand to a degree the severity of the disappointment but there's never a good reason to hate.
Am I the only one who didn't hate Hayden's Anakin?
The 'where to begin' thread.....
List of Flaws in the Films (bc im bored)
The Phantom Menace
-Jar Jar Binks
-Bomb in the Brain
-Anakin built a pod racer, a scanner for the bomb in the brain, C3P0
-Amidala's one vote allows a new Chancellor
-Obi Wan waits around on a ship w/ nothing to do
-Predictable Qui Gon death
-Four separate climax scenes
-Anakin being brought to Naboo for no reason
-Anakin accidently blowing up the Trade Federation Ship while skilled pilots were helpless
-Introduction of the only good character in the film (Maul) , just a dumb hologram with 'scary music' to tell you THATS the evillllll person
-Qui Gon / Watto dumbest most confusing bet ever, something about the part, the boy, not his mother, the ship, I dunno wtf was going on
-The Queen decoy reveal (not a surprise, not interesting)
Attack of the Clones
-The Queen was an elected Queen - WTF is that ?!?!
-Padme's boring stale character
-The love story
-Every stormtrooper is Boba Fett (WTF??)
-Another little kid (Boba Fett)
-The Jedi can't figure out Palpatine is Evil
-Yoda has a lightsaber and fighting....ruins everything
-Thousands of Jedi fighting thousands of droids....waters down the Jedi mystic
-The whole video game scene with Anakin / Padme in the droid factory
-R2 can fly
-The 3P0 comedy bit
-"I guess we're brothers" - Owen, lazy excuse to get Owen in there
-Introduction of Anakin / Obi Wan - a boring elevator scene...
(Sadly, Ep.2 was my least hated due to process of elimination)
Revenge of the Sith
-Hold me like you did on Naboo
-The whole opening act
-Jedi are fighter pilots now? Obi Wan is an expert pilot, but cant fly anymore once an old man on Tatooine ?
-Another freaking Yoda lightsaber fight, takes away from the mystic of Obi vs. Anakin
-Grevious annoying character...He was like Jar Jar on steroids, imo...
-Soooo many lightsaber fights to water down the action
-No explaination of Palpatine being kidnapped or why he was kidnapped
-More R2 comedy bits that fail on every level
-Grevious ship crashes on Corusant killing thousands and Obi Wan just makes a joke "Another happy landing'
-Anakin goes Sith to save Padme, but then decides to try to kill her ?!?!?!? WTF?!?
-Anakin kills Younglings
-Anakins fall to the dark side is faster than Nolan Ryan's fastball
-After hearing Palpatine is a Sith, Mace just casually walks along like its not that much of a big problem
-Ian McDiarmid's face during the fight with Jedi B-Team, an old man who can barely swing a lightsaber, then it has some CGI Palpatine backflips and other crap
-Obi Wan riding that alien horse
(Ep.3 was by FAR the worst of the three...I am shocked its rated higher than the first two)
ROTS takes place 3 years after AOTC plenty of time for Jedi to become adept at aerial combat especially considering they already have heightened senses and reflexes and they already know how to fly prior to AOTC.
When exactly was Obi supposed to fly around in ANH? Nothing in that film leads us to believe he is encapable of flying.
The reasons for Palpatine's kidnapping are pretty obvious. He (acting as Sidious) told Grievous to kidnap Palpatine and to use Palpatine as hostage. It is a war after all. High profile targets especially the leader of the galactic empire are invaluable leverage. But the alterior motivation behind it was to get Obi-Wan and Anikan back from the outer rim (Anikan says to Padme that "had the Chancellor not been kidnapped I dont think they would have ever brought me back from the Outer Rim.") and to set-up a situation for Anakin to kill Dooku. All this is spelled out in the film.
And its meant to show the amount of control Sidious has over this whole thing. He is playing everyone like puppets.
What was Obi Wan suppose to fly in ANH ????
Let me think on this.......
Maybe....Luke and the droids ???????? But he instead hires a complete stranger who looks like trouble instead of just using the money to fly himself.
The ability to pilot is kind of irrelevant if you don't have a ship at your disposal and you're hiding in the middle of nowhere.
People who know how to drive take taxis and public transport all the time. Also, they established even in ROTS that Obi-Wan wasn't fond of flying.
But they established that they had enough money TO BUY ANOTHER SHIP....
Obi Wan being a fighter pilot completely contradicts this part of the film.
Honestly, I liked the prequels when they came out, but I was just a kid, not as much as a film buff as I am now. Now that I'm older, looking back - there is absolutely no way you can defend the Prequel films....
I will say this... I liked them as movies, but I hated them as Star Wars films if that makes sense.
If you consider that Obi-Wan hated flying, and probably hadn't done it at all in 20 years it's not so much of a stretch to think he would've preferred to hire a skilled pilot. Also, being a fighter pilot doesn't necessarily mean he would've been able to fly a ship like the Falcon. Just like in real life knowing how to pilot a fighter jet doesn't automatically qualify you to pilot a 747.
Anyway, that's probably one of the more minor continuity issues that arises from the prequels anyway.
I'm more the opposite, I think the prequels have major shortcomings as actual films, but I liked the a lot of the new dimensions they added to the mythos. Not all of them mind you (Anakin building 3PO is useless for example), but a good amount. It makes me look at the OT a bit differently in some areas, like I enjoy the ending of ROTJ more now that I've seen how Palpatine manipulated Anakin, exploited his weakness for his own end and basically destroyed his life. But I love how the reason he turned to the dark side is the same reason he turned back to the light (wanting to protect his family). And by the same token the thing that the dogmatic Jedi once forbid (attachments) are ultimately how Luke and Vader together were able to overcome the Emperor. That is beautiful stuff.
Prequels ruined the mystic of the OT. I disagree completely... The prequel characters were so wooden , it did nothing to add to the OT. It was complete garbage.
I rememeber seeing the PM and me and my friends had to split up to get seats.
A guy sitting next to me turned to me and said "At first you might hate the movie."
I said "What you saw it already?? And wait what?? What do you mean i'll hate it? How can I not hate it after i see it???"
And the The Star Wars logo appears and the theme blasted on the screen. The oddness of opening crawl tipped me off.
I hated this movie. So much so when TPM was over in the cold silence in the theater ( No one clapped ) I put my thumb up in the air pointed it down and made the largest Fart noise I could blurt out.
I came into this thread because after seeing TFA I tried watching the Prequels and the awfulness of them I couldn't even take 20 minutes of them. So I watched some Fan Edits of the Prequels. Each fan edit had some good changes but none of them fully fix everything about them.
I even watched Interviews of Lucas to get some understanding what the hell he was thinking and why he justifies everything he does. I get the impression he takes all the credit for everything. Thats why none of his past collaberators wanted anything to do with the prequels. Its like George you wanna take all the credit then make your own movies By Yourself." Kasdan the original writer on the OT declined George asking him to write the Prequels he said George just make your own movies how you want." Because Kasdan and Speilberg said it was a mistake to make Anikan a little boy and Lucas said they were wrong. So fine make your own mess Im not getting involved in the flack coming your way.
I recently saw a video of the original ESB ROTJ Yoda Sculpter talking about how Lucasfilm wont fund to have the original Yoda Puppet recreated and preserved. Thats why the Yoda Puppet in the TPM looked so awful, Lucas just hired someone else and passed over the original sculpter.
The Original Sculpter has a kickstarter because LUCASFILM still doesn't care.
I even read that Lucas kept changing the OT because his own exwife had a hand in there creations and he wanted to cut her out of making more money from them which is the reason why he will never release the Unaltered OT on DVD.
What I hated about the prequels
Bad Story telling.
Bad character development.
Not using any of the OT refrences.
Over use of bad CGI
Mixing childish humor with killing and talking about killing constantly was to weird.
The Jedi's being like cops and not mystical and more of a powerful presense.
Its like 20 years pass and in the OT no one believes in the Jedis and that it was mombo jumbo?? Wtf the Jedi had there temple in the middle of the City not to long ago being called in to clean up everyones sloppy mess.
What I liked
Ewan Mcgregor trying more than anyone there. Sam Jackson just seemed at a loss with what he had to do but he tried. Everyone else seemed misserable being there Natalie Portman being overworked because child labor laws are longer out of the US and she would Cry on set hating what she got herself into. Other actors were mad they didnt get to work with each other and acting to a tennisball.
After watching all three movies again these movies give off a bad vibe to me. From unhappy cast, a selfish film maker, a crew and fx team not caring about the films they are making so each film declines in quality because it becomes just another job and not a special time in there lives that they will be impacting society in a Good way but instead a mediocre way.
Look what TPM did to Jake Lloyd.
Liam Neeson openly talking about his unenjoyment working on TPM that Lucas dubbed Neesons Voice with another actor in a cut scene with Yoda in ROTS.
Natalie Portman was quoted as saying STAR WARS almost killed her Carreer.
A lot of let down fans told off by Lucas that these movies are not for them. ( but in reality for children to buy STAR WARS Toys.) Thats cold hearted thing to say to people who made him wealthy.
Just Toxic stuff came out of the Prequels. Lucas
Constant remarks about the fans, suing fans for editing his prequels. So much awfulness derived from the Prequels that Lucas wanted nothing to do with STAR WARS or his fans again so he Sold it to Disney.
TPM didn't do anything to Jake Lloyd. Bullies did.
That's personal preference that he's entitled to. And Natalie Portman's career isn't dictated by a single movie, but by people who don't take to her because of their dislike for it.
Fans didn't make him wealthy. He put out a product that people liked and bought. That's what made him wealthy.
None of that came from the prequels. It came from people. People choose to react a certain way. Whether it's the fans or Lucas.
God bless you all! God bless everyone!
They established that Luke was a pilot too. The movie contradicts itself there. Any problem the prequels have the originals have.
God bless you! God bless everyone!
Anyone read this article from the New Yorker? This is one of the worst pro-Prequels articles i've ever read. You can make good points for the trilogy, but this article pretty much hated on the originals and even John Williams's soundtrack for the whole saga.