Sequels The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 2

[Spider-Vader]

Marvel would be stupid to let anyone from the third highest grossing movie of all time go. I'd seriously think about not seeing the sequel if one of the main characters is recast. It was okay for Rhodey since he had a minor role in IM1, plus Cheadle fits the character much better; but I just can't see Marvel getting away with that now.

They better start paying up or introducing replacement characters (Beta Ray Bill please? >_> <_<)

 

[TheVileOne]

Man you are jealous. It's practically seeping through my laptop screen.

You're jealous with that goofy avatar. You wish you could have a cat head on Captain America's body.

Hemsworth's name continues to grow, which for whatever reason you continue to try to mitigate. The market determines his value and right now he's getting paid more for other films. It's inevitable he will want some kind of raise and it's not like he's probably asking for some derivative which nets him $50 million after The Avengers 2 gets done in cinemas.

It's human nature to want more money. And so . . . what? I hope he gets paid more. Whatever deal he makes is what he deserves.

Everyone is always so obsessed with what other people are making. I don't get it. I don't get why fans are like, "I'm standing up for the little guy!" No you aren't.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

You don't know what you're talking about. Downey did not get a 50M dollar deal.

I love your tone and how you go right into a verbal attack.

Supposedly, I don't know what I'm talking about because I said Downey got $50 million, a figure he and others have already stated.

I did not say his up front pay was that much. I said he GOT that much. I even mentioned percentages in multiple posts, so I think I have a basic awareness of the concept.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Marvel accidentally opened the lid on the fact that Avengers had a $300 M production budget in some of their literature for the Avengers trading card series a year ago.

Studios often give an official number that's lower to placate stock holders. This is nothing new, and you can find tons of articles about these business practices.

Just to put the official numbers in perspective, $220 M Avengers production budget would mean it only cost $20 M more to make than Iron Man 2, and cost less to make than The Dark Knight and Amazing Spider-Man. If you believe that, with the sheer amount of CGI in Avengers, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you for a dollar.

As others have shown though, studios also have incentives to overstate their budgets. For example, the WB quietly claimed Harry Potter as a flop that lost them over $160 million.

Budgets can vary a lot based on numerous factors. For example, Green Lantern received a monster budget and most people are of the opinion that you can't see that money showing up onscreen. Avengers may have had lots of CGI, but they allegedly got away with paying their main cast (apart from Downey, whose big bucks came from a box office cut and not the budget) about one million in total.

Really, none of us are insiders so we're all just guessing based on sources of varying or even dubious value. I'm just saying that most of these sources agree on $220 million.

 

[TheVileOne]

There is no concrete data that actually proves the main players only got $200K for the Avengers either.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

After a little searching around, I found a recent paper from a law professor about Hollywood contracting practices: PDF file

The file is long (73 pages) and can get quite technical, but it's legit and cites numerous sources.

I've only skimmed it, but it states its main points up front in the summary at the beginning:

Hollywood film studios, talent and other deal participants regularly commit to big-budget film projects on the basis of unsigned “deal memos” or draft agreements whose legal enforceability is uncertain. These “soft contracts” constitute a hybrid instrument that addresses a challenging transactional environment where neither formal contract nor reputation effects adequately protect parties against the holdup risk and project risk inherent to a film project. Uncertainly enforceable contracts supply an implicit termination and renegotiation option that provides some protection against project risk while maintaining a threat of legal liability that provides some protection against holdup risk.

So basically, lots of Hollywood contracts fall well short of the iron clad contracts that you'll find in other places, and renegotiation is quite common and expected.

 

[Shikamaru]

edit

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I hear what you're saying, but it's irrelevant to the topic.

Trust me .... for example I used to get pissed at how much benchwarmers make in sports, but there's a pool of money that has to go somewhere. The fans and cable networks are responsible for it. They're simply getting their cut based on the numbers, as absurd as they are.

It probably seems like I'm knocking the performers for being divas but I'm really not. They're welcome to whatever they can get, that's fine, but 1) the tragic plight of famous & beautiful & wealthy people bores the **** out of me, and 2) I don't like the way the Deadline article pillories MS over this. It reads like a gossip rag and frankly I though Finke was above that sort of thing. It's the article and attitude itself that aggravates.

I fully expect Marvel to loosen the purse strings but getting paid a lower sum outright in exchange for a percentage of the box office sounds really reasonable to me.

Hell, pro wrestlers get a cut out of whatever t-shirts and other merch they sell. And Marvel sells A LOT of merchandis. Why not offer Hems .5% of Thor t-shirts and action figures sold? That's gotta be attractive.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ You have no clue what you're talking about. As I already told you once, what Shane Black did with The Mandarin is EXACTLY the kind of storytelling twist Joss himself likes to do and has done in the past.

 

[Tony Stark]

I love your tone and how you go right into a verbal attack.

Supposedly, I don't know what I'm talking about because I said Downey got $50 million, a figure he and others have already stated.

I did not say his up front pay was that much. I said he GOT that much. I even mentioned percentages in multiple posts, so I think I have a basic awareness of the concept.

You're comparing base salary to a profit sharing deal. Your post was misleading.

 

[Tony Stark]

As others have shown though, studios also have incentives to overstate their budgets. For example, the WB quietly claimed Harry Potter as a flop that lost them over $160 million.

Budgets can vary a lot based on numerous factors. For example, Green Lantern received a monster budget and most people are of the opinion that you can't see that money showing up onscreen. Avengers may have had lots of CGI, but they allegedly got away with paying their main cast (apart from Downey, whose big bucks came from a box office cut and not the budget) about one million in total.

Really, none of us are insiders so we're all just guessing based on sources of varying or even dubious value. I'm just saying that most of these sources agree on $220 million.

Sorry, I'll say it again, you don't know what you're talking about. No way did they spend only a million on casting. Evans salary was twice that much alone.

http://www.therichest.org/entertainment/marvels-the-avengers-salaries/

 

[Silvermoth]

Oh dear. This thread has become

How terribly boring.

 

[BigThor]

Indeed, but not only that but I felt like he wasn&#8217;t really given much to do during the high points of the battle. I mean sure, he shot lightning from that tower but they didn&#8217;t really put much emphasis on it afterwards, despite the fact that the attack was meant to clog up the arriving Chitauri. I felt like we should have seen him save some civilians directly during the battle, like catching a train or even a building from falling/collapsing with people inside it, or at least better utilize his flying abilities.

Agreed

Thor didn't get any huge tide turning moments like Cap, Hulk, or IM redirecting that nuke. Hopefully that changes in Avengers 2, I'd like to see Joss show The God of Thunder a lot more love.

 

[catintheengine]

I'll agree with a previous poster that the Deadline article reads like tabloid trash. "This rep said this" and "Another rep claimed this" just reads like high school gossip.

I honestly have a bit of a hard time believing that these industry professionals would trash a studio like that. Granted, no names are used, but it just reeks of sensationalism.

However, what scares me is that we really aren't seeing anyone come out to dispel any of this. Not even an "it's really not that bad" type of announcement. You would think that the studio, at least, would want to quell something that stirs the pot like this.

I'm trying to work on an editorial about this subject, and I just want to make sure I'm getting some of these details straight.

- RDJ only made the $50M he did, because of a back-end deal to get a percentage of the profits, and the total ended up being more than anyone anticipated. Does anyone know if this was of the gross, or just on the profit?

- There seems to be a lot of hearsay about how much the rest of the primary cast made. I'm seeing numbers ranging from $200K to $5M. Why so much confusion? Why are those two numbers the ones that people seem to be locking onto? I've been reading though articles, and these forums, but I'm just not seeing where these two numbers are coming from.

- It sounds to me like Renner and Ruffalo are staying pretty quiet on all of this. Is it Evans, Hemsworth, and Johannson that are really at the forefront of this? That's what it sounds like to me.

Any help with these questions would be really appreciated. There seems to be a lot of misinformation, or at least confusion, abound about this issue.

One more thing though: What do YOU think the chances of this seriously effecting Avengers 2? Do you think that we will, for sure, be seeing recasts? Do you think that the studio will cave and pay up? How do you think this will work out?

 

[Iceman]

Not sure that there's anything they would care too much about clearing up. It's not the kind of rumour that will find its way to the GA and neither would they care if they heard it. It's also not really any of our business. Actor salaries aren't always disclosed. And yeah, Evans & Hemsworth probably do have most reason to bring the topic up if they're leading their own films along with Johansson who's a bit more well known than Ruffalo & Renner so no surprises if that's the case. We don't really know what's going on outside of hearsay and that probably won't change. Marvel and the actors will likely work it out and if they don't, I don't personally think it's the end of the world (or the MCU t

Edit: I think all these guys will be back for Avengers 2 though, after that who knows.

 

[Terror Inc.]

Oh dear. This thread has become

How terribly boring.

"It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times?"

 

[Mjölnir]

I think Marvel will manage to keep the stars. The negotiations are pretty normal since they were stipulated in the contracts but the actors have seemed pretty pleased with their experiences in general. Hemsworth even joked about that he'd be playing Thor in his 50s.

Agreed

Thor didn't get any huge tide turning moments like Cap, Hulk, or IM redirecting that nuke. Hopefully that changes in Avengers 2, I'd like to see Joss show The God of Thunder a lot more love.

The biggest hope for this is that T:TDW sets a high bar for Thor's powers and feats so Joss has really think about how to top that. They need their big gun cocked and loaded for TA2.

 

[Iceman]

I think Marvel will manage to keep the stars. The negotiations are pretty normal since they were stipulated in the contracts but the actors have seemed pretty pleased with their experiences in general. Hemsworth even joked about that he'd be playing Thor in his 50s.


The biggest hope for this is that T:TDW sets a high bar for Thor's powers and feats so Joss has really think about how to top that. They need their big gun cocked and loaded for TA2.

Yeah, I have huge hopes for Thor 2 & Hemsworth playing the role till that age...joking or not. I prefer an older Thor and I'd love to see him change visually over that time till he resembles a veteran King of Asgard like Odin.

 

[catintheengine]

lol As I am reading the replies to my question, the local news started talking about this very topic.

However, they seem misinformed (or we are), because they said something about RDJ thinking he should have made way more on Avengers.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

You're comparing base salary to a profit sharing deal. Your post was misleading.

Oh please. He got $50 million because of his deal, that is a fact. If Avengers had "only" done $1 billion (a precedent set by previous superhero movies) or $800 million, his pay would have still been in the tens of millions.

All my posts before and after that (or hell, the next few sentences in the same post) show that I am aware of the concept of an actor getting a percentage of the box office.

You're one of those guys who starts posts right away by talking down to people. Now you're carrying on because you don't want to admit that.

Sorry, I'll say it again, you don't know what you're talking about. No way did they spend only a million on casting. Evans salary was twice that much alone.

So...I "don't know what I'm talking about" because I have one site that says his pay was $200,000.

You, the expert insider who knows so much more that you talk down to me in the first sentence of the first post you send my way...have one other site that says differently.

Whose site is right? Who knows.

I mean, wow, you have one other site (that claims Scarlett's already signed for Avengers 2 for A-list superstar pay of $20 million).

What research you have done. What impressive insider knowledge.

Give me a break. You got problems if this is how you approach people and initiate discussion with them.

Don't even bother coming at me again with this egotistical Mickey Mouse nonsense again (although I'm guessing you probably will). It's lame and I'm not going to waste more time on you.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yeah, I have huge hopes for Thor 2 & Hemsworth playing the role till that age...joking or not. I prefer an older Thor and I'd love to see him change visually over that time till he resembles a veteran King of Asgard like Odin.

That could be cool, although I guess they would have to come up with some sort of explanation for the aging if he's not to be confined solely to solo movies, seeing how he is effectively immortal thanks to the golden apples. Then again it will take quite a while before he reaches an age where his aging becomes relevant and by then Thor could certainly be past being an Avenger and so on.

 

[Tony Stark]

Oh please. He got $50 million because of his deal, that is a fact. If Avengers had "only" done $1 billion (a precedent set by previous superhero movies) or $800 million, his pay would have still been in the tens of millions.

All my posts before and after that (or hell, the next few sentences in the same post) show that I am aware of the concept of an actor getting a percentage of the box office.

You're one of those guys who starts posts right away by talking down to people. Now you're carrying on because you don't want to admit that.



So...I "don't know what I'm talking about" because I have one site that says his pay was $200,000.

You, the expert insider who knows so much more that you talk down to me in the first sentence of the first post you send my way...have one other site that says differently.

Whose site is right? Who knows.

I mean, wow, you have one other site (that claims Scarlett's already signed for Avengers 2 for A-list superstar pay of $20 million).

What research you have done. What impressive insider knowledge.

Give me a break. You got problems if this is how you approach people and initiate discussion with them.

Don't even bother coming at me again with this egotistical Mickey Mouse nonsense again (although I'm guessing you probably will). It's lame and I'm not going to waste more time on you.

Then don't play the "marvel is cheap" game. It's old, it's tired, it's not accurate.

If you want to think that Evans was paid less than what a soap opera actor would be, then go right ahead. I don't have all the facts and figures. For you to state as fact that the actors other than Downey were paid a million in total is flat out wrong, it's absurd, and laughable.

 

[Crimson King]

So...how about that Scarlet Witch news, huh?

 

[Iceman]

So...how about that Scarlet Witch news, huh?

Yeah, most importantly I wonder how much she's going to get paid. t: It'll be unfair for sure though..either $200k or $50m depending on whether she flips heads or tails.

I'm really excited for these rumoured new guys. Quicksilver's powers might not be unusual (Smallville, Flash although he'll likely be too late) but we haven't seen it done properly on a major film yet and I think they can think of great situations to use it in conjunction with the other Avengers, kind of like Nightcrawler in X2. Scarlet Witch I'm trying to visualise what her hex bolts might look like and what her costume will be. The brother sister relationship is great material for someone like Joss. I think their interplay will be really good.

 

[Crimson King]

Here's the actress Joss was picturing as SW: