Sequels The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 2

[Whiskey Tango]

http://www.chud.com/135091/lets-stop-*****ing-about-how-cheap-marvel-is-shall-we/ This article sums up my thoughts nicely.

pretty much, yeah.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

I'd also like to see an explanation for Marvel's claimed break-even point of $1.1 billion.

The Dark Knight made just over $1 billion in the box office, on a similarly sized budget.

According to Marvel, if The Avengers had "only" done as well as The Dark Knight, it would have been a flop and a waste of time. Years of effort pissed away for no immediate profit.

The recent article that spawned this discussion had someone in it calling BS on that, and I'm inclined to agree.

 

[BobJM]

ugh, I'll check back in when the speculation isn't about paychecks.

 

[Rock Sexton]

http://www.chud.com/135091/lets-stop-*****ing-about-how-cheap-marvel-is-shall-we/ This article sums up my thoughts nicely.

That article is pointless.

It leaves out a key ingredient ..... they have "options" in their contract to renegotiate. It's called "fairness." Oh by the way RDJ renegotiated his deals for each movie he's done, so why can't they?

The writer is a hypocrite.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That article is pointless.

It leaves out a key ingredient ..... they have "options" in their contract to renegotiate. It's called "fairness." Oh by the way RDJ renegotiated his deals for each movie he's done, so why can't they?

The writer is a hypocrite.

And clueless.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Forgetting about how cheap Marvel is, I don't understand why you guys are happy or standing up for the actors. This isn't good for us. This is the first step in how things get ruined. While the actors are whining about only being paid a couple million for a month's worth of work, we're going to suffer the backlash from it if it goes too far.

 

[Iceman]

I agree with the article. These kind of multi-picture deals are a gamble for both actors & studios by nature. Sometimes it works out in favour of one, sometimes the other. Marvel needed these for this universe to have a realistic chance of coming together over so many films. I don't think anyone's getting conned here, they probably just underestimated how big Avengers was going to be. SHould the actors be given some kind of bonus now that it's turned out so well for Marvel..maybe. But that's about all they should expect. The contracts were fair at the time and that's why they signed and why their agents allowed them to sign.

And on that $1.1B breakeven. It doesn't even need to be called BS. Of course it's not true. Films with the possibility of a $1.1B breakeven don't get made. Haha. Especially by a young studio like Marvel.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Yeah, obvious book cooking. I don't even know why they put that in the article other than for sensationalism.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Forgetting about how cheap Marvel is, I don't understand why you guys are happy or standing up for the actors. This isn't good for us. This is the first step in how things get ruined. While the actors are whining about only being paid a couple million for a month's worth of work, we're going to suffer the backlash from it if it goes too far.

For none of the leads is it a "month's work of worth". Try a half a year if they are lucky. Then there is the press. This is especially not true for Hemsworth and Evans. To get in that kinda of shape can be traumatic for the body and not something you can do over night. I remember Evans' horror stories when getting into shape for the first film. Crazy.

It is the extremes here that are the problems imo. Marvel are being cutthroat about this.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Right, it sucks so much they have to work out and get in shape every couple months...I'm sorry I do that every day I don't buy that being a reason for needing to get paid $10m especially when the Studio is paying the trainers to help get you in shape.

In terms of shooting, it is basically a month's worth of work for each character in a movie like Avengers.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

This will all be worked out, they've come too far in the game. This isn't replacing Terrence Howard. But after the third Avengers film, I'd imagine every major role will be recast. New blood welcomed.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I don't think it will be a recast, I think it will just be a new roster.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

They'll have to recast eventually. Get used to the idea. It already happened with Ed Norton.

 

[Raiden]

For none of the leads is it a "month's work of worth". Try a half a year if they are lucky. Then there is the press. This is especially not true for Hemsworth and Evans. To get in that kinda of shape can be traumatic for the body and not something you can do over night. I remember Evans' horror stories when getting into shape for the first film. Crazy.

It is the extremes here that are the problems imo. Marvel are being cutthroat about this.

While I do think the actors should get paid more for TA2, there is a reason why Marvel would want to keep the costs and risks down for their MCU movies. Simply put, it was a huge gamble to make several movies that lead up to a huge teamup like Avengers, and Marvel naturally would want to minimize the risk factor while ensuring that the actors would stick around for multiple pictures. The fact that they agreed to it probably shown that they wanted this to succeed so it can help them in their respective careers. But now that MCU is a tremendous success, the actors want a bigger pay raise, but since they're already signed in their contracts Marvel obviously would feel reluctant to agree to their demands right away.

But like the disputes between Disney and movie theatre companies, there are far too many money involved and it is in both sides' best interest to settle this. I don't believe Marvel can pull another recasting stunt like they did before, thanks to the enormous success of The Avengers. I think eventually both sides will meet somewhere in the middle before the shooting begins, and the sequel has the potential to challenge Avatar and Titanic for the top shot imo.

 

[RockSP]

Forgetting about how cheap Marvel is, I don't understand why you guys are happy or standing up for the actors. This isn't good for us. This is the first step in how things get ruined. While the actors are whining about only being paid a couple million for a month's worth of work, we're going to suffer the backlash from it if it goes too far.

You seem to be adding some zeroes.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I've spent my entire life busting my ass, doing hard physical labor for anywhere from minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour, just so I can own some crummy little farm no one in their right mind would want. Frankly the fact that this is even a topic pisses me off.

I wish I had a problem as massive as earning a mere $200,000 for 6 months work. I should be so lucky.

 

[TheVileOne]

Recasting at certain points will be inevitable. But let's just see it as changing creative teams or artists and writers.

 

[kosh33]

pardon my ignorance, but how reliable has deadline been in the past with reports on actor negotiations and contracts...
i just read a new article today where joss whedon refutes some of the information related to him in the deadline report
here it is:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/30943#461251

 

[Mjölnir]

Forgetting about how cheap Marvel is, I don't understand why you guys are happy or standing up for the actors. This isn't good for us. This is the first step in how things get ruined. While the actors are whining about only being paid a couple million for a month's worth of work, we're going to suffer the backlash from it if it goes too far.

Why should we forget how cheap Marvel is? It's a huge difference if the actors are trying to get paid what they would in other movies (that make less money) or if they are trying to get all the money they can and don't care if it's not feasible.

Since Marvel is being cheap it's not about the actors wanting absurd amounts of money, it's the studio that's not willing to pay the actors what they are worth which would mean that they aren't as interested in keeping them. If I do a good job at the company I work at and another company offers me work with higher pay I expect my current employer to match that if they want to keep me. Of course I don't think that there's much risk of that the actors and Marvel won't reach an agreement though.

Right, it sucks so much they have to work out and get in shape every couple months...I'm sorry I do that every day I don't buy that being a reason for needing to get paid $10m especially when the Studio is paying the trainers to help get you in shape.

In terms of shooting, it is basically a month's worth of work for each character in a movie like Avengers.

I don't think you understand how much work it is to get in the kind of shape Hemsworth gets in for Thor. That takes over your life completely during that period and it's really straining both physically and mentally. You have to train a couple of times a day, you have to eat many times per day (often the same things so you get really fed up with it) and you have to make sure to rest enough. That doesn't make much room for other things. If you're selling that short then you've never trained on a very high level. I can say that with quite high certainty.

And still it's not that in particular that makes him want to be paid more. Other studios are willing to pay him a lot more (as stated, SWatH paid 2 times more than TA) even though their movies earn less money and can include less work for him.

Would you be happy working harder for one company if another offered you less straining work that paid 2 times more money?

 

[SpideyFan866]

They'll have to recast eventually. Get used to the idea. It already happened with Ed Norton.

This. This is exactly why I don't get why people are getting so rustled by Doney negotiating for just Avengers 2 and 3.

I love RDJ as Tony as much as the next guy, but lets face it, he's not going to play Tony forever and Marvel isn't going to retire any characters. It's just not happening.

People need to start preparing themselves now because by time Phase 4 rolls around, perhaps earlier, we'll be seeing a new Tony Stark.

 

[cherokeesam]

pardon my ignorance, but how reliable has deadline been in the past with reports on actor negotiations and contracts...
i just read a new article today where joss whedon refutes some of the information related to him in the deadline report
here it is:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/30943#461251

I think Deadline is pretty full of **** in their article in general, but in their defense, they never said Joss was going to make $100 million for Avengers 2. They said he's making $100 million over *several* films, the SHIELD pilot, consulting work, and other things over a period of several years. So Joss, bless his heart, is being a bit disingenuous there.

 

[Crimson King]

Forgetting about how cheap Marvel is, I don't understand why you guys are happy or standing up for the actors. This isn't good for us. This is the first step in how things get ruined. While the actors are whining about only being paid a couple million for a month's worth of work, we're going to suffer the backlash from it if it goes too far.

Here's the thing though--they're not behaving any different than how any of us would, they're just doing it on another pay scale.

Imagine getting hired on for a job as Hype Poster #2 of 5. You're all hired to be Hype posters. You agree to be paid $1 a year for five years. After the first year, you're all super famous because the Hype went viral. Then you read in an interview that Hype Poster #4 is making $250 per post for doing the same job. Sure, their posts are popular, but so are yours. Are you cool with this? I wouldn't be. While it's true that you agreed to the amount in the beginning, would you have if you knew what the others were making? Probably not.

These actors should get raises for performing well, regardless of the amount they agreed to up front. These can be given as percentages of the gross or toy sales or whatever, but they deserve more money than they're getting. The last thing we, as fans, want is an actor playing a part in a movie when they're unhappy to be there. It'll come through in their performance, guaranteed, and the movies will suffer because of it.

 

[sabetoonth]

This. This is exactly why I don't get why people are getting so rustled by Doney negotiating for just Avengers 2 and 3.

I love RDJ as Tony as much as the next guy, but lets face it, he's not going to play Tony forever and Marvel isn't going to retire any characters. It's just not happening.

People need to start preparing themselves now because by time Phase 4 rolls around, perhaps earlier, we'll be seeing a new Tony Stark.

They'll have to recast eventually. Get used to the idea. It already happened with Ed Norton.

This is actually something I've been thinking about for like the last 6 months, tbh, regardless how this renegotiating goes, we'll get new actors in these rolls.

Recasting at certain points will be inevitable. But let's just see it as changing creative teams or artists and writers.

That's a good way to look at it

 

[Iceman]

I've spent my entire life busting my ass, doing hard physical labor for anywhere from minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour, just so I can own some crummy little farm no one in their right mind would want. Frankly the fact that this is even a topic pisses me off.

I wish I had a problem as massive as earning a mere $200,000 for 6 months work. I should be so lucky.

Dude it's only just over $33k per month. Doesn't sound so much now does it?

Why should we forget how cheap Marvel is? It's a huge difference if the actors are trying to get paid what they would in other movies (that make less money) or if they are trying to get all the money they can and don't care if it's not feasible.

Since Marvel is being cheap it's not about the actors wanting absurd amounts of money, it's the studio that's not willing to pay the actors what they are worth which would mean that they aren't as interested in keeping them. If I do a good job at the company I work at and another company offers me work with higher pay I expect my current employer to match that if they want to keep me. Of course I don't think that there's much risk of that the actors and Marvel won't reach an agreement though.

Yes but it's not morally wrong of them not to offer it to you. You're free to take up the other company's offer if they offer you that and your current company wouldn't be able to complain if you did. Aside from that what's the issue?

I don't think you understand how much work it is to get in the kind of shape Hemsworth gets in for Thor. That takes over your life completely during that period and it's really straining both physically and mentally. You have to train a couple of times a day, you have to eat many times per day (often the same things so you get really fed up with it) and you have to make sure to rest enough. That doesn't make much room for other things. If you're selling that short then you've never trained on a very high level. I can say that with quite high certainty.

Are you saying the roles that need this kind of training should be paid a lot more? I hope Bale made a lot for The Machinist then going through the kind of physical rigour that definitely is not good for the body. And this is surely only an issue if it came as a big surprise to Hemsworth and Evans that they'd have to work out so hard. Otherwise surely they are taking this into account when they are signing the contract.

And still it's not that in particular that makes him want to be paid more. Other studios are willing to pay him a lot more (as stated, SWatH paid 2 times more than TA) even though their movies earn less money and can include less work for him.

Would you be happy working harder for one company if another offered you less straining work that paid 2 times more money?

No but that's all it would be..me being unhappy. Not anyone else doing anything wrong. And I'd be free to take up the other company's offer outside of fulfilling the contractual obligations of my contract with the original company.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yes but it's not morally wrong of them not to offer it to you. You're free to take up the other company's offer if they offer you that and your current company wouldn't be able to complain if you did. Aside from that what's the issue?

The issue is that some people think that the actors are doing something wrong when they use their contractually stipulated negotiations.

Are you saying the roles that need this kind of training should be paid a lot more? I hope Bale made a lot for The Machinist then going through the kind of physical rigour that definitely is not good for the body. And this is surely only an issue if it came as a big surprise to Hemsworth and Evans that they'd have to work out so hard. Otherwise surely they are taking this into account when they are signing the contract.

I mean what I write. I answered a statement that said that Hemsworth is just forced to train to stay fit and that the poster that said it claimed to do that every day. My point remains that if you've ever done an elite level training regime you won't dismiss it as easily.

My following paragraph in that post clearly said that it wasn't the particular reason why he wants to be paid more. But of course he feels even more strongly against being underpaid if he needs to do something really hard in addition to acting.

No but that's all it would be..me being unhappy. Not anyone else doing anything wrong. And I'd be free to take up the other company's offer outside of fulfilling the contractual obligations of my contract with the original company.

Again, the entire issue you've jumped into is about whether or not the actors are doing something wrong. The statement that they do equals that the employee in the example would do something wrong to ask his employer if he can match the other company's offer. Do you think that's wrong?