The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 63

[Endeavor]

Mwaahahahahahahaha!

 

[Xeno]

well you know what they say "if you can't make modok work, just make everyone M.O.D.O.K."

I loved that issue of Marvel Adventures: Avengers.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Doesn't have anything to do with "can't be done"; it has everything to do with the coolness factor.

Thor looks cool. Cap looks cool (even with the much-maligned bullet-head helmet look). Iron Man, Hawkeye, Widow, Loki --- all bad-ass, all cool.

MODOK? Nope. Nothing even remotely close to cool. He'd be laughed completely out of theaters if they played him straight.

Not every character has to look cool. That's such a narrow minded way to think, even if you were just speaking as the general audience. The Joker is a complete and utter badass... but he doesn't look "cool." in the slightest, he looks a mixture between silly and scary, and it works big time. Gollum in LOTR doesn't look cool either but he's one of the best characters in film period. The days of characters having to look cool left along with the 90's, these days people love a good zany character if done well.

I could see MODOK working just fine 'n' dandy in a Deadpool film. Not much else.

Maybe THIS MODOK:
[YT]Pi7HnxWW3bM[/YT]
But the TRUE MODOK wouldn't work in anything other than a Captain America/SHIELD film IMO.

 

[Smashlilman]

What were the asian stereotypes if i may ask that "they" were basing their characters off of? I didn't read many IM comics like i did Hulk; x-men; cap.

Fu Manchu: "evil" East Asian

Main article: Fu Manchu​

Thirteen novels, three short stories, and one novelette have been written about Fu Manchu and Sir Denis Nayland Smith, the British agent determined to stop him. Millions of copies have been sold in the United States with publication in British and American periodicals and adaptations to film, comics, radio, and television. Due to his enormous popularity, the "image of Fu Manchu has been absorbed into American consciousness as the archetypal East Asian villain."[38] In The Insidious Doctor Fu-Manchu, Sax Rohmer introduces Fu Manchu as a cruel and cunning man, with a face like Satan, who is essentially the "Yellow Peril incarnate".[39]
Sax Rohmer inextricably tied the evil character of Fu Manchu to all East Asians as a physical representation of the Yellow Peril, attributing the villain's evil behavior to his race. Rohmer also adds an element of mysticism and exoticism to his portrayal of Fu Manchu. Fu Manchu contrives unnecessarily elaborately creative and cruel methods of murdering his victims, replete with allegedly East Asian methods or elements in his murders such as: "death by silk rope"- none of which have any basis in reality. Despite Fu Manchu's specifically Manchu ethnicity, his evil and cunning are pan-Asian attributes again reinforcing Fu Manchu as representational of all East Asian people.[38] Blatantly racist statements (note: not considered so at the time the novels were published) made by white protagonists such as: "the swamping of the white world by yellow hordes might well be the price of our failure" again add to East Asian stereotypes of exclusion.[40] Fu Manchu's inventively sardonic methods of murder and white protagonist Denis Nayland Smith's grudging respect for his intellect reinforce stereotypes of East Asian intelligence, exoticism/mysticism, and extreme cruelty.[38][41]

Soruce link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo...estern_world#Fu_Manchu:_.22evil.22_East_Asian

Wikipedia page about the character Dr. Fu Manchu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Manchu

 

[BigThor]

"Tis like a Frost Giant's head on an infants body" - Thor

 

[WildcatNC]

MODOK "can" be done faithfully on the big screen but i'm not sure he "should" be. I can see both sides on this one and have a hard time making up my mind on it.

 

[Smashlilman]

MODOK "can" be done faithfully on the big screen but i'm not sure he "should" be. I can see both sides on this one and have a hard time making up my mind on it.

agreed

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Doesn't have anything to do with "can't be done"; it has everything to do with the coolness factor.

He's not the Fonz, he's a freakish science experiment. Cool has exactly nothing to do with it.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

If done the way I envision in my head MODOK would without a doubt become one of the most iconic characters ever put in a comic book movie. I wish you guys could understand my enthusiasm about it, it's frustrating when you get this awesome idea in your head and you can't quite paint it out to people through words.

 

[craigdbfan]

"Tis like a Frost Giant's head on an infants body" - Thor

He's not the Fonz, he's a freakish science experiment. Cool has exactly nothing to do with it.

So true.

 

[Oruku Saki]

Fu Manchu: "evil" East Asian

Main article: Fu Manchu​

Thirteen novels, three short stories, and one novelette have been written about Fu Manchu and Sir Denis Nayland Smith, the British agent determined to stop him. Millions of copies have been sold in the United States with publication in British and American periodicals and adaptations to film, comics, radio, and television. Due to his enormous popularity, the "image of Fu Manchu has been absorbed into American consciousness as the archetypal East Asian villain."[38] In The Insidious Doctor Fu-Manchu, Sax Rohmer introduces Fu Manchu as a cruel and cunning man, with a face like Satan, who is essentially the "Yellow Peril incarnate".[39]
Sax Rohmer inextricably tied the evil character of Fu Manchu to all East Asians as a physical representation of the Yellow Peril, attributing the villain's evil behavior to his race. Rohmer also adds an element of mysticism and exoticism to his portrayal of Fu Manchu. Fu Manchu contrives unnecessarily elaborately creative and cruel methods of murdering his victims, replete with allegedly East Asian methods or elements in his murders such as: "death by silk rope"- none of which have any basis in reality. Despite Fu Manchu's specifically Manchu ethnicity, his evil and cunning are pan-Asian attributes again reinforcing Fu Manchu as representational of all East Asian people.[38] Blatantly racist statements (note: not considered so at the time the novels were published) made by white protagonists such as: "the swamping of the white world by yellow hordes might well be the price of our failure" again add to East Asian stereotypes of exclusion.[40] Fu Manchu's inventively sardonic methods of murder and white protagonist Denis Nayland Smith's grudging respect for his intellect reinforce stereotypes of East Asian intelligence, exoticism/mysticism, and extreme cruelty.[38][41]

Soruce link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo...estern_world#Fu_Manchu:_.22evil.22_East_Asian

Wikipedia page about the character Dr. Fu Manchu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Manchu

Gotcha; so basically the fact that he originally looked like the character from those novels and is evil and asian is the main issue...what about Ming the Merciless in Flash Gordon (1980) He looked pretty much the same and was tyrannical as well. The other issues like mysticism and cruelty apply to all mankind really. The idea of a higher asian intellect is seen as a bad thing tho?

I get the issue tho, it's mainly that in a movie by "caucasian americans" about a character that looks similar to the above and is "cruel", uses "magic" and is highly "intelligent" makes it stereotyping.

So basically Mandarin only works if he "doesn't look like said above picture", is "very kind", doesn't us "magic", and is "dumb as a box of rocks"...

 

[Xeno]

If done the way I envision in my head MODOK would without a doubt become one of the most iconic characters ever put in a comic book movie. I wish you guys could understand my enthusiasm about it, it's frustrating when you get this awesome idea in your head and you can't quite paint it out to people through words.

I agree that MODOK could be a great villain if done well. If it's any consolation, the screenwriters for Captain America 2 also agree with you. They pitched MODOK as a main villain to Marvel and want Peter Dinklage to play the role. While I think they might be offering a backhanded compliment to Mr. Dinklage, it's an intriguing idea.

 

[Smashlilman]

Gotcha; so basically the fact that he originally looked like the character from those novels and is evil and asian is the main issue...what about Ming the Merciless in Flash Gordon (1980) He looked pretty much the same and was tyrannical as well. The other issues like mysticism and cruelty apply to all mankind really. The idea of a higher asian intellect is seen as a bad thing tho?

I get the issue tho, it's mainly that in a movie by "caucasian americans" about a character that looks similar to the above and is "cruel", uses "magic" and is highly "intelligent" makes it stereotyping.

So basically Mandarin only works if he "doesn't look like said above picture", is "very kind", doesn't us "magic", and is "dumb as a box of rocks"...

Actually most all Evil asian characters are based off him. The Evil asian stereotype was place on all asians like that after that novel. The evil asian stereotype didn't change until after Bruce Lee became popular. Today most Asian stereotypes are positive.

 

[BigThor]

Whether he's based off a stereotype or type or not, I still want to see me some Mandarin in Iron Man 3 dammit!

We got to see Thor's biggest villain, Cap's biggest villain, and one of Hulk's biggest villains so it's only right that we see IM's biggest villain st the end of his trilogy.

 

[Naite22]

That makes me wonder... In the scene where Loki and Tony are talking. Uhhh, what the hell is Loki doing there!??? I mean, I like the scene and all. But why is he having that chat with Tony to begin with?

 

[TheVileOne]

A live action MODOK in a movie I think would go over like a fart in church.

Remember Hector Hammond in Green Lantern. Didn't come out very well.

 

[Quasimod0]

That makes me wonder... In the scene where Loki and Tony are talking. Uhhh, what the hell is Loki doing there!??? I mean, I like the scene and all. But why is he having that chat with Tony to begin with?

Id love to know this also

 

[Smashlilman]

Whether he's based off a stereotype or type or not, I still want to see me some Mandarin in Iron Man 3 dammit!

We got to see Thor's biggest villain, Cap's biggest villain, and one of Hulk's biggest villains so it's only right that we see IM's biggest villain st the end of his trilogy.

I know lol. If they made a Real Dragon Ball Z movie, I would be pissed if they left out Mr. Po Po becasue he was based off of a racist Black face stereotype.

1950 Blackface Performance: Vernon & Ryan
[YT]UfiNT6AKG0s[/YT]

 

[BigThor]

^ Well they did make a "Dragon Ball" movie, but I guess it's not the same because Mr. Po Po wasn't included until the "Z" was added.

 

[Xeno]

That makes me wonder... In the scene where Loki and Tony are talking. Uhhh, what the hell is Loki doing there!??? I mean, I like the scene and all. But why is he having that chat with Tony to begin with?

It will all make perfect sense when you see the movie.

Spoiler

Loki was using Stark Tower as the base for the portal that would allow his army to invade. You've seen the images in the trailers of Stark Tower with a blue beam of light slicing upwards from it. Loki had sent Selvig there to set up the apparatus that would use the Tesseract's energy to create that portal/wormhole and Tony guessed the plan. (All of it had to do with Loki's ego and desire to have his own name known by all humanity like Stark's is.)


Anyhoo, so Loki was there chillaxin' in Tony's pad. (I'm simplifying this, bear with me.) Tony made a show of arriving to draw Loki in so that they could have their confrontation. There followed conversation, defenestration, invasion and the single longest battle you will ever see in any superhero movie.


To address another, unrelated point: Once everyone sees the movie they should understand precisely why the battle was not global in scope, yet the threat posed by the aliens was. Why were the aliens only in New York? Well, why doe people who want to get into Brooklyn use the Bridge?

 

[Hawkingbird]

As long as Mojo never appears on our screens....or ever on paper

 

[BigThor]

It will all make perfect sense when you see the movie.

Spoiler

Loki was using Stark Tower as the base for the portal that would allow his army to invade. You've seen the images in the trailers of Stark Tower with a blue beam of light slicing upwards from it. Loki had sent Selvig there to set up the apparatus that would use the Tesseract's energy to create that portal/wormhole and Tony guessed the plan. (All of it had to do with Loki's ego and desire to have his own name known by all humanity like Stark's is.)


Anyhoo, so Loki was there chillaxin' in Tony's pad. (I'm simplifying this, bear with me.) Tony made a show of arriving to draw Loki in so that they could have their confrontation. There followed conversation, defenestration, invasion and the single longest battle you will ever see in any superhero movie.


To address another, unrelated point: Once everyone sees the movie they should understand precisely why the battle was not global in scope, yet the threat posed by the aliens was. Why were the aliens only in New York? Well, why doe people who want to get into Brooklyn use the Bridge?

Hey Xeno, can you go answer the latest question that I asked in the Official Rate & Review thread?

I'd appreciate it very much

 

[Smashlilman]

^ Well they did make a "Dragon Ball" movie, but I guess it's not the same because Mr. Po Po wasn't included until the "Z" was added.

Nope he was in Dragon balls He fought and trained Goku.
Mr. Popo eats Kamehameha Wave
[YT]qVZerUy8rwQ[/YT]

 

[BigThor]

Nope he was in Dragon balls He trained Goku.
Mr. Popo eats Kamehameha Wave
[YT]qVZerUy8rwQ[/YT]

He sure was I'd had forgotten all about that, well he still didn'tmake an appearance in the live action Dragon Ball movie.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

This question has been weighing on my mind ever since I saw it in one of the released clips. Can someone, who has seen it, please answer this for me?

Spoiler

In the Loki/Stark clip, you see Stark put some bracelets on both wrists. What in the world are they and what do they do?