The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[Spider-Fan]

Okay, guys...this is a X-MEN/AVENGERS thread. Cut the friggin Batman talk out!

 

[DACrowe]

Well I guess that ends the discussion.

Still, isn't that a little...arbitrary? I mean I know this is an "X-Men vs. Avengers" thread but by its nature, it is about comparing superhero movies. The whole point of this thread is to compare and contrast.

This isn't just X-Men or Avengers, it is a franchise comparison thread. Is bringing in other franchises really out of the realm? Next we can't talk about Iron Man 3 or Wolverine in this thread because it isn't in the title. Oh well.

 

[jaymes_e06]

^No it isn't. I thought this was specifically DOFP vs. Avengers the movies. The franchises and Wolverine movies as well as the individual Avengers films have no bearing either.

 

[scatterax]

Stewart will always be Professor X to me

McKellan and Fassbender though are very equal in the quality of their performances

That said, for all those saying how emotional DOFP was, Fassbender's scene in the plane was literally the ONLY scene that made me feel something in the film.

And Coulson dying was pretty dang emotional for me, so I can't say the plane scene beat it by that much

For me, young magneto seems more like he has a righteous fury, where as older magneto is more set in his ways, and therefore less redeeming. I like younger magneto because that righteous passion he has is closer to how I've always viewed the character. And the ability to see things his way, and question if I would follow his ideology is what makes the character so interesting for me. I never got that from old magneto. He always seemed more clear cut evil, just with a soft spot for Charles. Still good, but the newer one is better.

older Xavier is more sage like, and closer to the Xavier I know from previous incarnations. Younger Xavier is at a very different place, and still on his way to becoming that sage like mentor to all mutants. So even though he has more of an arc, and so far has had a more interesting journey as a character, I like Patrick's Xavier better. It's the character at full power, in a sense, and closer to how I envision him. He just has never been the primary focus until DoFP. (Even FC had more focus on Charles than the OT)

The way I view xmen (at least cartoon wise) the stories work best when each one rotates focus to a specific team member or two, while Xavier is the constant overseer. Similar to Aslan in the Narnia books. So while it's cool to see him as an active agent of the stories in the prequel movies, he doesn't need to be to be enjoyed.

 

[Creo]

Avengers by a mile. I had a host of issues with DofP.

As mentioned before, Magneto wasn't really needed at all, and in fact made everything worse. Xavier's constant nagging is what made Mystique change her mind. This brings me to my biggest issue: Why does Mystique not killing the president suddenly make everyone decide not to hunt down mutants? Did they forget the attack on the president and the insane amounts of damage that Magneto just caused, including millions (if not billions) of dollars in property damage that the country now has to pay for? I found the end scene quite ridiculous because of this.

I also hate that it was Mystique that gave the Sentinels their ability to adapt and counter mutant powers, as it has nothing to do with her power set. That's Rogue's abilities with some modification. The dropped Rogue scene probably would have solved this issue.

I also didn't feel anything for the future mutants outside of Xavier, Charles and Kitty. The others were just canon fodder for cool action scenes. They were amazing scene, but watching them die twice over had zero emotional impact for me.

Quicksilver was better than I had originally thought he would be, but the jab at Marvel and Joss still irks me. His powers were way more powerful than they should have been, and letting him go after they rescued Magneto was just stupid. Despite that, I did enjoy his character in the movie.

There are a host of other smaller problems I have with the movie, but those are the bigger ones.

 

[Rock Sexton]

That said, for all those saying how emotional DOFP was, Fassbender's scene in the plane was literally the ONLY scene that made me feel something in the film.

No doubt man.

[YT]ZQWLAq04_Wk[/YT]

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

Just got goosebumps from watching that.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Hmm that's interesting, I felt something every time the sentinels killed the X-men in the future.

I felt something when Magneto tries to kill Mystique in Vietnam and mutants are exposed for the first time in history.

I felt something during the plane scene of course.

I felt something when the old Xavier pleads with the young Xavier.

I felt something during the climax when Magneto is on the verge of ruining everything and all seems lost.

I felt something when Wolverine sees Jean Grey and Cyclops at the Xavier school.

I guess if you guys weren't invested that's fine but I wouldn't completely fault the movie. There were plenty of emotional moments.

Avengers just had Iron Man calling Pepper Potts during his sacrifice.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Hmm that's interesting, I felt something every time the sentinels killed the X-men in the future.

I felt something when Magneto tries to kill Mystique in Vietnam and mutants are exposed for the first time in history.

I felt something during the plane scene of course.

I felt something when the old Xavier pleads with the young Xavier.

I felt something during the climax when Magneto is on the verge of ruining everything and all seems lost.

I felt something when Wolverine sees Jean Grey and Cyclops at the Xavier school.

I guess if you guys weren't invested that's fine but I wouldn't completely fault the movie. There were plenty of emotional moments.

Avengers just had Iron Man calling Pepper Potts during his sacrifice.

Yeah I don't know what people are talking about. X-Men's death scenes seriously haunted/ traumatized me for at least a week. Seeing them sacrafice themselves yet being brutally murdered was something I will never forget. I honestly forgot most of the storyline of Avengers after the first viewing. I remembered awesome moments not the emotional ones. I don't really remember any in that film.


Not to mention Mystique's scene of impersonating Trask and seeing all the mutant dead bodies/ experimentations of her fellow mutants/friends. X-Men can be said to be borderline depressing with how much feels it accomplishes.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Hmm that's interesting, I felt something every time the sentinels killed the X-men in the future.

I felt something when Magneto tries to kill Mystique in Vietnam and mutants are exposed for the first time in history.

I felt something during the plane scene of course.

I felt something when the old Xavier pleads with the young Xavier.

I felt something during the climax when Magneto is on the verge of ruining everything and all seems lost.

I felt something when Wolverine sees Jean Grey and Cyclops at the Xavier school.

I guess if you guys weren't invested that's fine but I wouldn't completely fault the movie. There were plenty of emotional moments.

Avengers just had Iron Man calling Pepper Potts during his sacrifice.

This is where this topic continues to get off track and why this whole thread is pointless to begin with. The Avengers wasn't designed to be THAT kind've movie that you say you experienced with DOFP. Perhaps that might change when they get their own sequel .... you know where their relationships are fleshed out more, the stakes are higher, and everything is more personal. I mean X-Men have had how many movies now together? 4?

If Joss tried to force somber moments and too much sentimentality it would not have worked for that film. They had to set a foundation first and by all indications it worked beyond what they ever dreamed of at Marvel Studios.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yeah I don't know what people are talking about. X-Men's death scenes seriously haunted/ traumatized me for at least a week. Seeing them sacrafice themselves yet being brutally murdered was something I will never forget. I honestly forgot most of the storyline of Avengers after the first viewing. I remembered awesome moments not the emotional ones. I don't really remember any in that film.


Not to mention Mystique's scene of impersonating Trask and seeing all the mutant dead bodies/ experimentations of her fellow mutants/friends. X-Men can be said to be borderline depressing with how much feels it accomplishes.

Traumatized you for at least a week?

See it's hard for me to buy that .... just is. But this is where my theory of whether the viewer is more vested in the franchise comes from, which to me seems far more logical and what is partially responsible for the heightened sentimental experience. I've yet to hear any non-comic fans say any of that.

I'm glad you felt that way though. You're a good fan if you did.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

Its no question that I was much more emotionally attached to DOFP than the Avengers

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

Traumatized you for at least a week?

See it's hard for me to buy that .... just is. But this is where my theory of whether the viewer is more vested in the franchise comes from, which to me seems far more logical and what is partially responsible for the heightened sentimental experience. I've yet to hear any non-comic fans say any of that.

I'm glad you felt that way though. You're a good fan if you did.

My friends are not comic fans and feel that way. Maybe not for a week, but they were still emotionally attached. But then again not everyone gets emotionally attached to movies as some do, or have certain things that hit us in the soft spot

 

[Rock Sexton]

My friends are not comic fans and feel that way. Maybe not for a week, but they were still emotionally attached. But then again not everyone gets emotionally attached to movies as some do, or have certain things that hit us in the soft spot

Of course they were. I wouldn't expect you to say anything less.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

I'm just saying. And I was trying to reason with your comments

 

[jaymes_e06]

Traumatized you for at least a week?

See it's hard for me to buy that .... just is. But this is where my theory of whether the viewer is more vested in the franchise comes from, which to me seems far more logical and what is partially responsible for the heightened sentimental experience. I've yet to hear any non-comic fans say any of that.

I'm glad you felt that way though. You're a good fan if you did.

I don't really care how you feel about the authenticity of my emotions. Seriously, what a condescending thing to say...

How can seeing anyone brutally torn apart not traumatize someone, especially if they are a superhero, is the more important question?

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Hmm that's interesting, I felt something every time the sentinels killed the X-men in the future.

I felt something when Magneto tries to kill Mystique in Vietnam and mutants are exposed for the first time in history.

I felt something during the plane scene of course.

I felt something when the old Xavier pleads with the young Xavier.

I felt something during the climax when Magneto is on the verge of ruining everything and all seems lost.

I felt something when Wolverine sees Jean Grey and Cyclops at the Xavier school.

I guess if you guys weren't invested that's fine but I wouldn't completely fault the movie. There were plenty of emotional moments.

Avengers just had Iron Man calling Pepper Potts during his sacrifice.

Agreed.

Not to mention Mystique's scene of impersonating Trask and seeing all the mutant dead bodies/ experimentations of her fellow mutants/friends. X-Men can be said to be borderline depressing with how much feels it accomplishes.

Her reaction was great in that scene.

 

[Rock Sexton]

I don't really care how you feel about the authenticity of my emotions. Seriously, what a condescending thing to say...

How can seeing anyone brutally torn apart not traumatize someone, especially if they are a superhero, is the more important question?

How can they not? When there's no attachment to the character, especially when the characters in question are killed off in almost throwaway fashion.

You may think I'm being condescending, but I think you're embellishing for the sake of the argument. Yet, if you really do feel that way I'm trying to reinforce the idea that there's more at stake for you personally because you have a vested interest in the characters and franchise.

In the pillars of cinematic movie deaths it's not even going to be an after-thought. So that's why I find the word "traumatized" to be more hyperbole than reality.

 

[jaymes_e06]

They were risking their lives to save mankind and for the right to just be alive themselves no matter how you felt about them in the franchise beforehand their intentions were pure in that moment and that is why it is so sad to see them savagely torn apart and mangled. They are superheroes being distroyed so easily by a threat. They don't win in the end and go to Shawarma. No one gets a happy go lucky ending. It's an allegory for how people feel who are "mutants" or the different that are persecuted for just trying to have a normal existence. There is no easy path. Maybe you weren't watching the same movie I was. Go re-watch and maybe learn to read between lines and don't make straw-man arguments about how people should feel about films. Mmmkay?

To me Avengers had nothing that wasn't shown right in front of you and that is one of the things that disconnected me from an otherwise fantastic movie. I didn't think the movie was saying anything that I wouldn't get from a random Avengers comic(not even one of the better ones just like a 90's comic empty but loud and beautiful).

Also by the way I'm not "embellishing" dude. I went to see this with my little brother and after the massacre scene I turned to my brother and said I was genuinely traumatized. I don't mean I was in a dark corner hitting my back against a brick wall but as I stated earlier it is another way of saying it was a "haunting" moment for me that stayed with me unlike anything in TA.

 

[Rock Sexton]

They were risking their lives to save mankind and for the right to just be alive themselves no matter how you felt about them in the franchise beforehand their intentions were pure in that moment and that is why it is so sad to see them savagely torn apart and mangled. They are superheroes being distroyed so easily by a threat. They don't win in the end and go to Shawarma. No one get's a happy go lucky ending. It's an allegory for how people feel who are "mutants" or the different that are persecuted for just trying to have a normal existance. Maybe you weren't watching the same movie I was. Go re-watch and maybe learn to read between lines and don't make straw-man arguments about how people should feel about films. Mmmkay?

I don't need to re-watch it. Once was enough. Being torn apart and mangled doesn't mean anything when there's no emotional connection created between the viewer and the character. Yours PRE-EXISTS because of your relationship to the franchise and comic. What you called "savage" was just some meaningless throwaway death for someone like myself and a sentimental reaction wasn't earned.

By the way, most of these CBM's feature heroes trying to save mankind. That goes without saying. It's just about the most cliched aspect of these kinds of movies.

To me Avengers had nothing that wasn't shown right in front of you and that is one of the things that disconnected me from an otherwise fantastic movie. I didn't think the movie was saying anything that I wouldn't get from a random Avengers comic(not even one of the better ones just like a 90's comic empty but loud and beautiful).

What wasn't shown right in front of you in DOFP? C'mon now. DOFP spewed the same allegory with the war on mutants that all the previous films did, so it was just more par for the course. It was almost X2, but this time with time travel and both casts ........ except X2 was a much better film front to back. That movie became the standard for comic book films up until this new wave started.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I don't need to re-watch it. Once was enough. Being torn apart and mangled doesn't mean anything when there's no emotional connection created between the viewer and the character. Yours PRE-EXISTS because of your relationship to the franchise and comic. What you called "savage" was just some meaningless throwaway death for someone like myself and a sentimental reaction wasn't earned.

By the way, most of these CBM's feature heroes trying to save mankind. That goes without saying. It's just about the most cliched aspect of these kinds of movies.

You're missing the point becuase it appears you really can't read between lines so I will say it slowly:

"Mankind"... and its... ignorance...is... the... thing...that ... created...these demonic automatons. That is what makes it more prolific than just a random invasion of (insert threat here) army.

What wasn't shown right in front of you in DOFP? C'mon now. DOFP spewed the same allegory with the war on mutants that all the previous films did, so it was just more par for the course. It was almost X2, but this time with time travel and both casts ........ except X2 was a much better film front to back. That movie became the standard for comic book films up until this new wave started.

Strawman argument is strong in this one. It either has allegory or it doesn't you can't have it both ways. I agree X2 was better but that's not the films we are comparing. We are comparing DOFP and TA so let's get back to that shall we?

Anyway, I'm not even sure what your trying to argue anymore...

 

[Rock Sexton]

You're missing the point becuase it appears you really can't read between lines so I will say it slowly:

"Mankind"... and its... ignorance...is... the... thing...that ... created...these demonic automatons. That is what makes it more prolific than just a random invasion of (insert threat here) army.

All you're doing is giving me more cliche and then turning around and purposefully ignoring Loki's plight which was inter-connective tissue built through the MCU up to that point. Were the actual Chitauri fighters just goons? Surely. So were all the random people Mystique beat up in this movie ..... you know when we saw her disguise and invade some place for the upteenth time in this series.

Strawman argument is strong in this one. It either has allegory or it doesn't you can't have it both ways. I agree X2 was better but that's not the films we are comparing. We are comparing DOFP and TA so let's get back to that shall we?

Anyway, I'm not even sure what your trying to argue anymore...

I didn't say DOFP didn't have an allegory. I just said it was cliched and abused given the reliance of it over the previous films.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I didn't say DOFP didn't have an allegory. I just said it was cliched and abused given the reliance of it over the previous films.

The allegory is different for DOFP than previous X-films.

Basically it was about how violent rebellion and hatred won't fix the system it will only result in a dystopic police state.

X3 was about curing a trait or gift society deems unwanted like homosexuality or autism.

X1-X2 was about the conflict between MLK and Malcolm X's ideology.

 

[Rock Sexton]

The allegory is different for DOFP than previous X-films.

Basically it was about how violent rebellion and hatred won't fix the system it will only result in a dystopic police state.

X3 was about curing a trait or gift society deems unwanted like homosexuality or autism.

X1-X2 was about the conflict between MLK and Malcolm X's ideology.

I'm referring to the all-encompassing distrust and hatred towards the mutants by society throughout the films .... which paralleled racism and homophobia.

They each just had a slightly different twist on it. The first film merely led to Magneto trying to eradicate humans. The second film featured hardliner military colonel's attempted genocide, only to have Magneto turn right around and attempt it upon mankind again. The third featured an attempted cure instead of elimination, which once again puts mankind in jeopardy.