The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[DA_Champion]

The setting and the logic are better handled in the avengers.

 

[Lord]

The setting and the logic are better handled in the avengers.

I disagree, Avengers was simply much more simple, while X-Men had to deal with correcting a weird timeline, which it did very well.

 

[DA_Champion]

I vote X-Men: Days of Future Past but i'm sure Avengers will win.

Either way, i was very disapointed with Avengers, instead of getting an amazing film i got a run of the mill superhero flick, with the only difference being that it starred these heroes, with X-Men i was simply blown away, not only were they able to make this complex story work in a single go, but they were also able to make the pace perfect.

I don't even agree with the spectacle, Avengers didn't offer anything new to me, with a bland cinematography, and a city battle that was no more impressive than the ones we've seen before, hell, i got more of a sence of high stakes in the previous year's Transformers 3 city climax.

I mostly agree with BlackFox, X-Men: Days of Future Past had better drama, Directing, story, stakes, writing, finale, emotions and ambitions. Post-Credits scenes are debatable, though i prefered X-Men's, while with villains, Loki was too small to hold the entire team, however, Bolivar Trask wasn't all that exceptional either, but Magneto was by far more interesting than those 2, and you could say that he worked as a villain in Days of Future Past.

I disagree, Avengers was simply much more simple, while X-Men had to deal with correcting a weird timeline, which it did very well.

Why DoFP is quite flawed:
http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=28870489&postcount=459

 

[Lord]

I know, no film is perfect, but i read your review and disagree with many points, for one thing, Wolverine wasn't exactly the main character, we actually spent more time with Charles's journey, then you talk about the camera not focusing for more than a few seconds when the action was very easy to understand, there were even some times where we spent a long time in the same position with the portals keeping a sentinel. The sence of impending doom are the reason why it's so important for Logan's mission to be a success.

About the time it's set in, i only agree about the Sentinels feeling too newish, not only did it need to take place after First Class, but also to show how the Vietnam war ended up destroying Charles's dreams and ambitions, with his student being taken, then you have an insecure time for America, with the mutants as a threat being another case of the government pointing the finger at what they don't know.

I liked the aesthetic of First Class, but it was far from being all that close to the 60s, i even remember various coments about it felt more like the modern days version of what we think the 60s were like, lacking Mad Men's realism of the times. There there were some things pointed out be Red Letter Media where it didn't feel like a high budgeted film, like the little submarine in the middle of the artic, or wherever Shaw was.

The way you start talking about the climax seems weird too, who said they could never fight the sentinels? The problem is that they're just way too powerful to ever be completelly defeated. Then you started laughing in the cinema due to the stadium levitation? That seems a bit forceful, reminds me of a friend that went to see The Conjuring with out group, was constantly being scared by the movie but then tried to mask it with some forceful laughter or witty remarks. Him levitating the stadium to stop anyone from coming in or out was actually an interesting imagery, and why are you surprised Magneto now controls the Sentinels? Don't you remember when he was putting metal inside of them?

Magneto worsens the problem, but whos aid he was needed? It wasn't exactly the plot, it was Magneto from the future, you can take it as part of his oun plans to free his younger self, or he genuinelly thought he would be needed, but life doesn't allways work as we think it will. Magneto may have caused all that damage, but the fact that Mystique, another mutant, just saved those men that wanted to capture her, made their views on mutants less one sided, then Trask selling military secrets just made his point weaker.

Bolivar Trask wasn't the strongest villain in the series, but it wasn't supposed to be all that much about him, and he was still a decent character, his statement shows that he admires mutants due to their power, but won't let his species (Homo Sapiens Sapiens). Stoping Trask's assassination meant that his legacy was stronger than the man himself, similar to how Dent's death in The Dark Knight lead to a lot of criminals to be put in jail more easily.

 

[JP]

The Avengers has action, spectacle, humor, and a certain joyfulness.

X-Men has action, humor, and gut wrenching performances by some of the worlds best actors.

Both are terrific, but I felt X-Men was more emotionally resonant.

I'd actually love for X-Men to take on that level of spectacle, since they've yet to tap into that. Hopefully with Apocalypse in 2016. I'd also love for The Avengers to tap into that level of emotion, hopefully in Age of Ultron.


My vote is X-Men.

 

[DA_Champion]

About the time it's set in, i only agree about the Sentinels feeling too newish, not only did it need to take place after First Class, but also to show how the Vietnam war ended up destroying Charles's dreams and ambitions, with his student being taken, then you have an insecure time for America, with the mutants as a threat being another case of the government pointing the finger at what they don't know.

I liked the aesthetic of First Class, but it was far from being all that close to the 60s, i even remember various coments about it felt more like the modern days version of what we think the 60s were like, lacking Mad Men's realism of the times. There there were some things pointed out be Red Letter Media where it didn't feel like a high budgeted film, like the little submarine in the middle of the artic, or wherever Shaw was.

To me anyway, First Class felt like 1962, and it was a story that needed to be in 1962, since the cuban missile crisis was important.

DoFP didn't feel like 1973. Aside from the Sentinels as designed by Steve Jobs, Bolivar Trask had flat screen monitors, the characters didn't wear much 1970s clothing, Trask industries seems to have a contemporary understanding of biology, and Nixon was nothing like Nixon, he was more like Bush/Obama, waiting for his advisers to tell him what to think rather than being the paranoid control freak who would privately decide everything with Henry Kissinger.

The story also doesn't need the Vietnam war and is a bad tonal match to the Vietnam war. In DoFP, all problems are solved in 1973 ... but America was not healed in 1973, not at all.

I don't care or mind if things look cheap.

Then you started laughing in the cinema due to the stadium levitation? That seems a bit forceful, reminds me of a friend that went to see The Conjuring with out group, was constantly being scared by the movie but then tried to mask it with some forceful laughter or witty remarks. Him levitating the stadium to stop anyone from coming in or out was actually an interesting imagery,

IMO, destroying cities in the climax scenes of CBMs is now a cliche.

and why are you surprised Magneto now controls the Sentinels? Don't you remember when he was putting metal inside of them?

That makes absolutely no sense. See if you can change what shows you get on your TV by putting metal inside it.

Magneto worsens the problem, but whos aid he was needed? It wasn't exactly the plot, it was Magneto from the future, you can take it as part of his oun plans to free his younger self, or he genuinelly thought he would be needed, but life doesn't allways work as we think it will.

We are told that young magneto will be needed with an exposition scene. So it's problematic that he undermines the heroes throughout the movie.

Magneto may have caused all that damage, but the fact that Mystique, another mutant, just saved those men that wanted to capture her, made their views on mutants less one sided, then Trask selling military secrets just made his point weaker.

Imagine if North Korea fired 100 missiles at the USA. And then a renegade north Korean intercepted say 80 or 90 of those missiles, and then some of the forces responsible for those missile being fired were still at large and with further ability to cause damage. Would the USA drop its anti-NK programs?

No.

Bolivar Trask wasn't the strongest villain in the series, but it wasn't supposed to be all that much about him, and he was still a decent character, his statement shows that he admires mutants due to their power, but won't let his species (Homo Sapiens Sapiens). Stoping Trask's assassination meant that his legacy was stronger than the man himself, similar to how Dent's death in The Dark Knight lead to a lot of criminals to be put in jail more easily.

I actually quite liked Trask as a villain.

This would have been a better movie if it had focused more on Trask, Xavier, Mystique and developed that story in depth.

 

[BlackFox]

The Avengers has action, spectacle, humor, and a certain joyfulness.

X-Men has action, humor, and gut wrenching performances by some of the worlds best actors.

Both are terrific, but I felt X-Men was more emotionally resonant.

I'd actually love for X-Men to take on that level of spectacle, since they've yet to tap into that. Hopefully with Apocalypse in 2016. I'd also love for The Avengers to tap into that level of emotion, hopefully in Age of Ultron.


My vote is X-Men.

Yeah you make a good point they can both learn from each other and improve and try varied things going forward.

Who's to say AOU and Apocalypse wont be better than both of these, we shall see.

 

[Lord]

To me anyway, First Class felt like 1962, and it was a story that needed to be in 1962, since the cuban missile crisis was important.

DoFP didn't feel like 1973. Aside from the Sentinels as designed by Steve Jobs, Bolivar Trask had flat screen monitors, the characters didn't wear much 1970s clothing, Trask industries seems to have a contemporary understanding of biology, and Nixon was nothing like Nixon, he was more like Bush/Obama, waiting for his advisers to tell him what to think rather than being the paranoid control freak who would privately decide everything with Henry Kissinger.

I disagree, like with First Class the setting was a mix of its time with modern perception, the thing is that the 70s simply weren't as "flamboyant" as the 60s. DoFP has even gotten some pretty good reviews about making certain scenes look like a 70s movie, and i honestly think they did that well, in a similar way First Class served as an homage to 60s movies.

Can't defend Nixon though.

The story also doesn't need the Vietnam war and is a bad tonal match to the Vietnam war. In DoFP, all problems are solved in 1973 ... but America was not healed in 1973, not at all.

Actually, the thing with the film is that problems aren't solved in 1973, you have mutants being taken for research, Xavier is a wreck and Trask is using Nixon's paranoia to strike Mutantkind while it's not too late.

Now that you brought it up, i actually think the 70s setting makes even more sence.

IMO, destroying cities in the climax scenes of CBMs is now a cliche.

It is, but i don't remember it being such a big deal or causing that much destruction, Magneto simply brought the stadium from one place to the other, i don't remember him destroying buildings or obliterating many miles or turning them into ash.

That makes absolutely no sense. See if you can change what shows you get on your TV by putting metal inside it.

It's a movie, i know this isn't a good excuse, but i don't need to see Magneto's constant trial and error in making the Sentinels work, remember that he was even studying their designs before he aproached mystique, it's reasonable to think that he studied how they worked in order to control them from the inside.

We are told that young magneto will be needed with an exposition scene. So it's problematic that he undermines the heroes throughout the movie.

It's still stated by old Magneto, and i think many would have agreed that he was needed too due to his importancy to Mystique, they just didn't know Magneto would end up causing so much trouble. I think you're reading too much into the set-up at the begining of the film, it may have been a narration, but it was said by a character in the film that isn't "all seeing".

Imagine if North Korea fired 100 missiles at the USA. And then a renegade north Korean intercepted say 80 or 90 of those missiles, and then some of the forces responsible for those missile being fired were still at large and with further ability to cause damage. Would the USA drop its anti-NK programs?

No.

That has nothing to do with this, North Korea is a single country, mutants are multiple individuals throughout the world. And it's not as if we were told that Humans never feared Mutants again, in fact, the catalyst in the original Trilogy ended up happening decades before they would. Now they're having trouble with mutants since that time.

Sentinels were never going to be activated right away, first you would get some problems like the mutant registration, etc. only after would it be put in place, it's safe to assume that a lot was changed by the actions in the film, and we still don't know in full details how the world went thanks to that.

I actually quite liked Trask as a villain.

This would have been a better movie if it had focused more on Trask, Xavier, Mystique and developed that story in depth.

Xavier and Mystique were the most focused part of the movie, and their story was developed in depth.

 

[The Endless]

I think DoFP is slightly ahead of Avengers. It just has a bit more meat to it. More emotional resonance.

But The Winter Soldier and Iron Man 3 are better than both, for me.

 

[First Avenger]

Eh,they are pretty much equal to me.Both 9/10 and the top of this genre.I think DOFP will win this being the 'newer' movie.

 

[starscream22]

Avengers hands down!

You've gotta be a fan of Singer and Fox's take on the X-men to enjoy it, which I don't. So until that franchise reverts back where it belongs, make mine Marvel Studios!

 

[First Avenger]

Yeah in a way it's true,but singer's x-movies are still excellent even if they are not totally accurate.

 

[JP]

Avengers hands down!

You've gotta be a fan of Singer and Fox's take on the X-men to enjoy it, which I don't. So until that franchise reverts back where it belongs, make mine Marvel Studios!

Seriously? At least we got to page two before reverting to this nonsense.

 

[The Endless]

I can understand people not liking this take of the X-Men. It's quite different to the comics. But there is no guarantee Marvel Studios would be better. And i'd prefer them not to.

The whole thing with people hating mutants but being accepting of other super powered beings is stupid in the comics.

That's why i liked what Morrison did. He got beyond the whole bigotry thing and made it so there was loads of mutants. So many that it became a bonafide popular sub culture. Didn't last very long though unfortunately. It'd actually be interesting to see something like that in the films.

 

[horacethegrey]

Well I thought First Class was better than The Avengers.

And Days of Future Past was a step above First Class.

So yeah, the X-Men win this round over the Avengers. DOFP was just more dramatic, moving, suspenseful and chock full of awesome superhero setpieces. Though the actors in Avengers are okay with one standout performance (Tom Hiddleston as Loki), most of the main players in DOFP were sublime and each of them contribute to film's overall quality (particularly McAvoy and Fassbender as Xavier and Magneto). And Bryan Singer, unlike Joss Whedon, manages to balance the humor with the drama effortlessly.

As it stands, Days of Future Past is the best movie based on a Marvel property alongside The Winter Soldier, IMO.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm going to go with Avengers just because it had more build up and it was something that 10 years ago many thought would never happen, and not only that, but they delivered a great film on top of it. DoFP is more emotional, no argument there. It is a great movie and in my top 5 CBMs as well, but The Avengers is just something special to me.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Very difficult choice. I think the three greatest films in the genre are X2, The Avengers and now DoFP. I've only seen Days once but will have a couple more viewings this week to comb through the finer details. At this point I'd say DoFP by a hair.

 

[T"Challa]

I usually hate these 'vs' thread because it always boils down to people bashing the other property just to uplift their favorites.

Anyway, these are 2 excellent movies and they both showed how great the CBM genre can be.

I pick Avengers because it had a certain joyful exuberance about it. I came out of DOFP thinking "that was a great movie". I came out of Avengers feeling like i could run through 7 brick walls. Its that feeling that reminded me of why i love superheroes.

 

[DrCosmic]

DOFP was a great movie. It managed a lot of characters and subplots and did right by all of them, with great fight scenes, great new concepts, all the fanservice you could ever ask for. Anyone who says it's not a great movie just doesn't get superheroes, or movies for that matter.

But it's not on Avengers' level. It wasn't as crisp thematically or narratively, and it did not service and synergize what came before so much as cannibalize it and start afresh. As far as I'm concerned, Avengers and The Dark Knight are tied for first*, mostly because they're so hard to compare. But other great great films like CATWS, Iron Man, Spider-Man 2, and other really great superhero movies that are the best of a good franchise.

*For me Man of Steel is first, but I realize that's more based on how deeply it speaks to me personally, so I don't consider it strictly the best, simply, my favorite

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Which Crossover flick did you like more?

dofp wasn't a crossover flick. and neither was avengers, since all the characters are housed in the same studios and their films all happen in the same universe.

 

[iambranded]

Avengers by a lot. DOFP was a great film and I enjoyed it very much. But Avengers was more fun and really was a big spectacle. The buildup to Avengers was unheard of at the time. I mean it had 5 films building to that one moment when they all came together. Again DOFP was good but it wasn't Avenger level at all.

I agree completely.... Avengers by a landslide

 

[First Avenger]

I usually hate these 'vs' thread because it always boils down to people bashing the other property just to uplift their favorites.

Anyway, these are 2 excellent movies and they both showed how great the CBM genre can be.

This x1000

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Both are amazing movies and no one can argue that.

DOFP had a darker tone and a ton of emotion, yes. But those people saying Avengers didn't have emotion or drama seem to be forgetting a lot of the movie. Coulson's death, Loki's emotionless attempt to murder Thor, Natasha struggling with Barton's brainwashing, Stark sacrificing himself (surviving, yes) to save the world and never getting to talk to Pepper before. Avengers had drama and emotion. DOFP had more, stronger emotion, but Avengers had some as well.

Not to mention the Apocalypse stinger that DOFP had only existed because of the Avengers' Thanos tease.

Avengers was a better production, DOFP had a better tone.

Personally I give the edge to Avengers, by the slimmest of margins.

 

[T"Challa]

DOFP had a darker tone and a ton of emotion, yes. But those people saying Avengers didn't have emotion or drama seem to be forgetting a lot of the movie. Coulson's death, Loki's emotionless attempt to murder Thor, Natasha struggling with Barton's brainwashing, Stark sacrificing himself (surviving, yes) to save the world and never getting to talk to Pepper before. Avengers had drama and emotion. DOFP had more, stronger emotion, but Avengers had some as well.
.

Lies. All lies. Avengers was nothing but a hollow action comedy with no plot.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I don't think DOFP was the drama bomb everyone else says it is.