The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[def28]

I disagree. I don't see how the Iron Man films are the same as the Thor films. Iron Man 3 is just as unique as The Winter Soldier. It's like Batman Returns in the way it's more a Shane Black movie than a superhero movie. For better or worse.

Yeah, pretty much this.

 

[The Endless]

I agree with the best superhero films having sub-genres with the exception of Spider-Man 2, and i have to disagree with the other MCU films not having subgenres, Phase II has been all about that, Iron Man 3 was a Shane Black buddy cop movie, and was only better for it, with Thor 2 you could make a case for it being a commedy rom, but so was the first film but Guardians of the Galaxy is going to be a space opera/ tribute to the 80s.

I think they're slowly upping their game since Phase I, where aside from Iron Man 1, all their films felt a little "generic" for me. Probably not the best word, but i simply didn't find any of them to be anything special, Cap had plenty of potential, and a strong first half, yet, it had to rush through that time in order to get to Avengers and the Man out of time stories.

For me the first hour or so of The First Avenger is comfortably up there with the very best in terms of origin stories.

The final act did feel a bit rushed though. But the end from Cap crashing the jet into the ice to him waking up in modern times was perfectly executed. Emotionally powerful. Especially the very final line and shot of the movie. Evans facial expression just sold the pain and sadness in Rogers wonderfully.

 

[def28]

The final act did feel a bit rushed though. But the end from Cap crashing the jet into the ice to him waking up in modern times was perfectly executed. Emotionally powerful. Especially the very final line and shot of the movie. Evans facial expression just sold the pain and sadness in Rogers wonderfully.

Agreed with this as well. Those are some of my favorite scenes in the whole MCU. Loved the scenes where he crashed the jet and woke up in modern times.

 

[DA_Champion]

The First Avenger put me to sleep. The only bright light in that movie was Hayley Atwell, she rocked that lipstick. Everything else, from Steve picking fights to Red Skull, was boring.

 

[Visualiza]

These vs threads always become a war.

That's about the only thing we can conclude from them.

 

[First Avenger]

That's about the only thing we can conclude from them.

Pretty much.

 

[LordMortis315]

 

[Lord]

The First Avenger put me to sleep. The only bright light in that movie was Hayley Atwell, she rocked that lipstick. Everything else, from Steve picking fights to Red Skull, was boring.

"boring film" is a very subjective criticism. 90% or more of the GA will tell you films like The Godfather or Citizen Kane are boring.

 

[DACrowe]

"boring film" is a very subjective criticism. 90% or more of the GA will tell you films like The Godfather or Citizen Kane are boring.

Ninety percent says that about The Godfather? Somehow, I doubt it. And First Avenger ain't no Godfather.

 

[DACrowe]

Again, DEAL WITH IT!


I'm a Magneto fan and a comicbook fan in general, you have your validations to the points that you've layed down and I respect that, that's your opinion BUT the truth is you people saying DOFP will age better, I don't believe that, like a fine wine (best example of aging better) Marvel is the wine.

Wherever you go, when is that generation and whatnot, in the eyes of the comicbook world and general audience, The Avengers > XMen: DOFP, I can't force you people to join me in my case but it is what it is, we're here claiming our piece and the truth is out there, EVEN A BLINDFOLDED, LOCKED UP IN BASEMENT STEVIE WONDER CAN SEE THAT.


I respect the Xmen films (For me First Class is BETTER than DOFP, it revived the franchise and showed some REAL respect to Mags and Chuck, it is the best x-men film! but it's not the 'Xmen' for me, and people says Marvel just do generic films? They diff superheroes films within a context of sub-genres.

If you're talking about being generic and not doing something fresh, tackling Mutants in a span of 14 years in films with the major fact that you have properties (thanks to that 'marvel is going bankrupt in the 90's' contract) that you owned like the shi'ar, non-mutant props, etc. (stories that can evolve the franchise) and your stories goes on with HUMANS HATES MUTANTS HATE HUMANS plot then again enjoy your life till 2028 dealing with the same plot over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.


Thank You.

So, to follow. We have our opinions, which you disagree with...but we should accept your "truth" that Avengers is better because it's more popular. Yeah, okay.

Question do you accept the "truth" that Batman is a better character than Captain America, Thor, or the Hulk? Because the last two Batman movies made a lot more than they have, so your logic would apply to that too.

 

[daddydivine]

I thought DOFP was kinda boring after the first act. And only picked back up towards the finale. It's like the TDKR for me, good film... not so much a good superhero movie...


IMO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BoredGuy]

Joss Whedon would make a commercial clever, but that is what it was. Compared to X-men, much more superficial. DOFP, will age much better, b/c it is not just about special effects and clever one liners. Real emotion. An emotional well acted movie that had something to say vs a well written Transformers movie.

DOFP barely had anything to say, even the minority/gay allegories were totally lost in the film
and the emotion was fleeting, and clearly for a lot of people, not nearly that "real"
DOFP will age worse than most X-films, because once the spectacle and fun of seeing the Old and New casts in one movie, as well as the film being huge and action packed unlike any other x-film, people will then notice how lacking in message and true emotional moments this movie was.

I'm not saying Avengers is deep in any way, but it did perfectly what it set out to do, define the epitome of the "Superhero Film". It will stand the test of time as exactly that. DOFP will feel cheesy and overly self-serious in just a couple years (or months even).

Oh and also, to call Avengers a "well written Transformers movie", I don't usually do this but...

F*** YOUUUUUUUU, BUDDY

Also, if people are going to start insulting the First Class flicks for being period pieces...at least they committed to it in each film and didn't treat it like a chore while throwing plot out the window to set up for the next one for the "World War II" film that was scared to use the word Nazis.

Sorry, but I actually really enjoy the period aspect of the more recent mutant films to have come out.

To each their own
I didn't like Cap in a period setting either, but it kinda had to be for his origin
The past two x-movies however, have felt extremely fake in their depiction of those periods, and it irritates

 

[Lord]

Ninety percent says that about The Godfather? Somehow, I doubt it. And First Avenger ain't no Godfather.

It is no Godfather, but that's besides the point, most of the time, the criticism of "boring" people give to a film in general is badly used, that's why you see sometimes people saying things like "classics are boring".

 

[The Endless]

My main problem with the X-Men films is that they always seem to be saving their own skin. We haven't really seen the "outcasts who fight to protect the people who hate and fear them" which was the initial concept.

The civil rights allegories are used as a crutch, a defining trait, way too much. The X-Men are supposed to be superheroes first and foremost, saving everyone, not just fellow mutants or potential mutants.

That said i do still enjoy X1, X2, First Class and DoFP.

 

[The.Brotherhood]

So, to follow. We have our opinions, which you disagree with...but we should accept your "truth" that Avengers is better because it's more popular. Yeah, okay.

Question do you accept the "truth" that Batman is a better character than Captain America, Thor, or the Hulk? Because the last two Batman movies made a lot more than they have, so your logic would apply to that too.

Truth is, point of this thread (alpha to omega, from cradle to the grave, start to finish, etc.) is The Avengers vs X-men.

It may go down to infinity responses of people who's claiming that one is better than the other with all their valid points and heart full beliefs BUT in the end, The Avengers will go down in history books as one IF not the best comic book film of all time.


Regarding Batman as a better character, yes ofcourse, he's one of the Kings of comicbook world and has one of the richest history of character development both in comics and different media adaptations (Films, Animation, etc.) you can't deny the fact that Batman's history in films and other mediums is richer than the whole MCU as of the moment.

 

[antonydelfini]

My main problem with the X-Men films is that they always seem to be saving their own skin. We haven't really seen the "outcasts who fight to protect the people who hate and fear them" which was the initial concept.

The civil rights allegories are used as a crutch, a defining trait, way too much. The X-Men are supposed to be superheroes first and foremost, saving everyone, not just fellow mutants or potential mutants.

That said i do still enjoy X1, X2, First Class and DoFP.

In x1: they saved the world leaders from become artificial mutants and from eventual death

X2: they saved every human being's life from Xavier and Jason

First Class: prevented war, saved a ship from being blown by a missile

DOFP: saved US government officials (and the future of mutantkind) from sentinels, Mystique, and Magneto

 

[Lord]

My main problem with the X-Men films is that they always seem to be saving their own skin. We haven't really seen the "outcasts who fight to protect the people who hate and fear them" which was the initial concept.

The civil rights allegories are used as a crutch, a defining trait, way too much. The X-Men are supposed to be superheroes first and foremost, saving everyone, not just fellow mutants or potential mutants.

That said i do still enjoy X1, X2, First Class and DoFP.

That's actualy what most of these films have been about.

X-Men 1: Yes, they also end up having to help Rogue, but most of the investigation is done in order to save humans from Magneto's machine

X-Men 3: They try to stop Magneto's army from killing a ton of humans, saving Jean and the Cure's existence is more secondary, and she ends up having to die in order to save the population in general.

X-Men: First Class - Erik is after revenge, but in general, the team is trying to stop a nuclear destruction, from which mutants were suposed to be the only ones surviving.

 

[BoredGuy]

In X3 they saved a few soldiers lives, who then ended up getting killed by Phoenix
at no point did Magneto's army have any actual plans of hurting innocent humans

but yeah, the rest, they saved a lot of people
that said, I still don't feel any of the minority-persecution themes of the films outside of a few lines of dialogue delivered as lip service to the idea(or FC's heavy handed speechifying). The films that were strongest in terms of that premise were X-Men and, sadly, X3 with the cure story

 

[justanotherguy]

I'm shocked, like many of you, that this is even a discussion. The Avengers by a mile.

That being said, show me a true die hard Avengers fan that think DFOP was better or vice-versa.

My problems with DFOP are
1) It's the same movie as all the other X-movies(humans hates us!but we fight each other!),except they have both casts now. The X-Men occasionally save the world from other threats then themselves.
2) Speaking of casts-how about a throwaway line by young Magneto explaining why you won't see most of the cast from First Class
3) Speaking of lines- how much exposition is necessary in a time travel flick? Apparently a lot. The interactions between the old cast was as if no one new what was going on. Does Xavier need to explain to a bunch mutants living in the moment what is going here?
4) The stakes were extremely low. It's a time travel flick, if you fail, you just go back in time and if Logan were smart he'd look at young Charles and say "when you meet a girl name Kitty Pride, do this again if we fail."
5) It erased everything that ever happened in the original trilogy.
6) This was still a Wolverine movie (as the conclusion was really the conclusion of Logan's arc through the first 5 films he was in)
7) oh hey Havok!
8) You know the fastest guy we know? Let's only borrow him for a little while, he certainly couldn't help us stop an assassination!
9) Tyrion Lannister was underused
10) The filmmakers political agenda of making Erik a heroic mutant trying to save a democratic JFK (who was romanticized again to be a mutant-that Erik knew about and not Charles) and making Nixon a coward and a nit-wit (Isn't Nixon already a villain enough?)
11) All of the "Evil" X-Men are good now.
12) You know Mystique? The key to these awesome new Sentinels? Well, her present day self wasn't awesome enough to survive.
13) Hey Storm!
14) Why is it that Magneto needs a costume, while this franchise famously ignores hero costumes(FC excluded)? All Erik needs is that helmet.
15) The timeline is still ****ed up-now the "original" team is going to be having 1980s adventures-which actually ages them.



*This is all after Fox and Brian Singer's greatest sin- The main character in the X-Men franchise has largely been ignored since the first film.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Wolverine has been the main character in the X-Men franchise since about 1980. Or the majority of their existence, in other words.

 

[Rock Sexton]

The First Avenger put me to sleep. The only bright light in that movie was Hayley Atwell, she rocked that lipstick. Everything else, from Steve picking fights to Red Skull, was boring.

I liked the Skinny Steve stuff better than anything else once he got the serum. I also liked the Red Skull and thought Hugo Weaving tried to make the character fun, but unfortunately they didn't give him enough to do.

My main problem with the X-Men films is that they always seem to be saving their own skin. We haven't really seen the "outcasts who fight to protect the people who hate and fear them" which was the initial concept.

The civil rights allegories are used as a crutch, a defining trait, way too much. The X-Men are supposed to be superheroes first and foremost, saving everyone, not just fellow mutants or potential mutants.

That said i do still enjoy X1, X2, First Class and DoFP.

I'm so tired of the civil rights stuff ..... that's why I'm hoping AOA goes a completely different route.

 

[justanotherguy]

Wolverine has been the main character in the X-Men franchise since about 1980. Or the majority of their existence, in other words.

No he's a the breakout character, much like The Thing (and even Johnny Storm) were early in the FF heyday, but not the main character...and that really ended with Morrison and Whedon's Astonishing. The main character in X-Men is Scott, always has been, but especially now.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Scott's practically a villain now.

Has been since AvX.

 

[def28]

Scott's practically a villain now.

Has been since AvX.

That's changed a bit, but yeah he was pretty much the new Magneto. Which made him more interesting. While Scott's the most essential X-Men imo, the character can come off extremely dull and safe when not written correctly. I liked that they gave him some edge. Since the X-Men is not just one team anymore there isnt one distinct leader. Logan does get way more attention, and comes as the lead of the entire X property like you said. Although three of the four main X books (All New, Uncanny X-Men, X-Men) don't really feature Wolverine.

Since they do have two Cyc's now they can focus on different aspects a bit more though. The Solo with his Dad is actually really cool.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In x1: they saved the world leaders from become artificial mutants and from eventual death

X2: they saved every human being's life from Xavier and Jason

First Class: prevented war, saved a ship from being blown by a missile

DOFP: saved US government officials (and the future of mutantkind) from sentinels, Mystique, and Magneto

That's actualy what most of these films have been about.

X-Men 1: Yes, they also end up having to help Rogue, but most of the investigation is done in order to save humans from Magneto's machine

X-Men 3: They try to stop Magneto's army from killing a ton of humans, saving Jean and the Cure's existence is more secondary, and she ends up having to die in order to save the population in general.

X-Men: First Class - Erik is after revenge, but in general, the team is trying to stop a nuclear destruction, from which mutants were suposed to be the only ones surviving.