Arrow The Barry Allen/The Flash Thread - Part 1

[Nathan]

Although I don't think MOS was terrible, I want the universes to remain separate. Let the creators be able to do what they want without having to compromise for the sake of tone or continuity or whatever.

Being part of the MCU is Agents of Shield's biggest problem. Because they have to be ridiculously careful, not to use anything that could potentially be used for yet another Movie. Well, that and having a bunch of completely green kids on the team who are not too interesting.

 

[roach]

Being part of the MCU is Agents of Shield's biggest problem. Because they have to be ridiculously careful, not to use anything that could potentially be used for yet another Movie. Well, that and having a bunch of completely green kids on the team who are not too interesting.

I think that's the main problem. Why make a show set in the MCU and can't show us the cool stuff? At least with Arrow they are allowed to talk about Ras al Ghul…intro Barry Allen...

 

[Boy Scout]

Being part of the MCU is Agents of Shield's biggest problem. Because they have to be ridiculously careful, not to use anything that could potentially be used for yet another Movie. Well, that and having a bunch of completely green kids on the team who are not too interesting.

So I've heard. I don't watch the show. The previews looked boring, most people don't seem to think that it's anything worth watching, and I don't give a damn about Coulson.

 

[Mikelus]

Also, that GL show was terrible too. Excessively boring and awful stories. Poor characterization with no development to them about characters nobody cared about. For years I wanted to see a CGI done show like that but the show was terrible. I still think that animation could work but good God make the show all around better, I seriously didn't care about anything that happened in those shows, give it some weight and emotional depth, give it interesting characters and strong characterizations like Batman: TAS and Superman: TAS had.

"Green Lantern: The Animated Series" produced by your idol, Bruce Timm, was pretty good and precisely, it had character development and emotional depth, specially with characters like Aya and red lantern Razer. And it received good reviews too:

The Verdict

Yes, the cancellation was unfortunate, and prospects for some sort of continuation aren't looking great. But Green Lantern was a monumental achievement, and easily one of the stronger superhero shows Bruce Timm has been involved with. There wasn't a single stinker in this stretch of 26 episodes. Even alongside the stellar Young Justice, Green Lantern easily held its own.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/03/21/green-lantern-the-animated-series-season-1-review

A very solid 7.9/10 at IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1724587/

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern:_The_Animated_Series

 

[Mikelus]

Although I don't think MOS was terrible, I want the universes to remain separate. Let the creators be able to do what they want without having to compromise for the sake of tone or continuity or whatever.

Comparing tv shows and movies is like comparing apples and oranges since tv series have more time to develop the characters, but here we go anyway. Arrow is not better than MOS for obvious reasons, the main female character, Dinah Laurel Lance, is extremely weak as a character, while Lois is fine, the best cinematic Lois Lane so far (Margot Kidder was too hysteric and Kate Bosworth was just terrible). Then Arrow has teen angst with Thea and Roy and is more soapy, even Slade Wilson, one of their best characters, wanting revenge over a woman.

Give me Zod and Faora anyday! I'm sure the next Lex Luthor will hate Superman for more than a woman. t:
But Arrow does fits with MOS' tone, but like many of us have said, is better to keep both separate, writers will have more freedom to do what they want without worrying about the "we can't do this because then why the JL doesn't help Oliver blahblahblah". And if they're going to use Amanda Waller in the movies, Arrow blew it there too with their casting, so yeah, there are enough reasons to keep them apart.

 

[Nathan]

So I've heard. I don't watch the show. The previews looked boring, most people don't seem to think that it's anything worth watching, and I don't give a damn about Coulson.

The problem isn't even really that they are limited by what they can use. Even without constant name drops, easter eggs and known villains, you could come up with exciting stories all about Shield and their Spy work. And the few Episodes that focus on exactly that, aren't too bad. But for the most part, it's just badly written, with plots that aren't too exciting and characters that you barely care about. And I don't think suddenly using tons of comic character would actually change it. It would only make us more willing to forgive its numerous shortcomings.

The only characters delivering the goods are Coulson and May, and Coulson you don't care about. So there's only 1 character on the show that you might actually find interesting. I'm still watching the show, but I never get that burning desire to watch the next Episode.

 

[Mikelus]

^^ I stop watching that crap and don't miss it a bit, hopefully the other Marvel series will have the right tone and better writing. Joss Whedon, you have failed Fan City!!

 

[Human Torch]

I hope not. Arrow is really good, where as MOS was utterly terrible. I hope they keep it all different. I don't want Flash having to be in a universe with such horrible muted colours and pathetic character development.

And I want cheesey over the top Rouges. That's the best thing about them. That they're all about the cheese and try not to harm anyone. Flash and his Rouges are an interesting thing in comics and I'd like them to keep that in the show.

Problem is having Arrow fans (who seem to have detested Count Vertigo,the series only "Over the Top" villain) keep watching the Flash.DC has the habit of making everything dull & drab for the sake of "realism".

 

[Human Torch]

I don't get the problem with a shared universe.

The fans already love Amell (and presumably Gustin though he isn't quite the Flash yet).With that much good will towards the characters,why scrap it all?

There's no real difference between Arrow & AOS in terms of the "Big Guns".It's as doubtful Superman with show up on Arrow as Thor will on SHIELD.

And don't say "People will ask 'why can't Ollie ask Clark for help?'" They'll be saying the same thing about Barry next year.

There's not really a problem with using the villains.I doubt a Batman film will focus on Ra's Al Ghul in the near future.But it doesn't prevent the same Ra's actor from showing up in a Batman film if they so choose.

Batman has a strong enough rouges gallery to focus on in his films,and a Justice League film will undoubtedly have a bigger threat such as Darksied to worry about whether a villain in Arrow was used already.

 

[Nathan]

The problem was more that they called him Count Vertigo. If he would have been a newly created character for the show, I wouldn't have cared. Instead they took a character with great potential, and turned him into a Joker light drug dealer.

 

[Mikelus]

Yeah, having campy, cheesy villains is better right?

Speaking of, there's a Green Arrow villain named (hold on to your seats)... The Boomerang!!

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Martin_Flint_(Earth-Two)

Maybe Arrow should adapt The Boomerang since it was created in 1942, many years before Captain Boomerang (1960).

 

[Mikelus]

I don't get the problem with a shared universe.

The fans already love Amell (and presumably Gustin though he isn't quite the Flash yet).With that much good will towards the characters,why scrap it all?

There's no real difference between Arrow & AOS in terms of the "Big Guns".It's as doubtful Superman with show up on Arrow as Thor will on SHIELD.

And don't say "People will ask 'why can't Ollie ask Clark for help?'" They'll be saying the same thing about Barry next year.

Again, if the producers want to do something as big as the earthquake and destroy part of Starling City or whatever, is logical to think that the JL should help Ollie and the city. Being separate frees the writers from lame excuses and writing such as "the JL is not available blahblahblah..." With Flash is a non-issue since they can have him as a guest star.

 

[Boy Scout]

Arrow is not better than MOS...

You lost me.

...the main female character, Dinah Laurel Lance, is extremely weak as a character, while Lois is fine

Neither one of them are anything to write home about. I thought Lois was pretty generic.

Then Arrow has teen angst with Thea and Roy

What are you talking about? There has been very little angst between the two of them this season. Roy has been helping Oliver and Thea is managing Verdant. Their relationship isn't really a focus so much as an afterthought.

and is more soapy

The good outweighs the bad, and that's more than I can say for MOS.

even Slade Wilson, one of their best characters, wanting revenge over a woman.

That is speculation. You don't know what else is going to happen on the island to turn Oliver and Slade against one another. If that were the case, you'd think Slade would have at least hinted at it in "Three Ghosts". Instead, he made a promise to stick an arrow in Oliver's eye.

The problem isn't even really that they are limited by what they can use. Even without constant name drops, easter eggs and known villains, you could come up with exciting stories all about Shield and their Spy work.

I'm sure they could. The problem (apparently) is that they're doing the exact opposite of that.

It doesn't really matter to me. Like I said, I've no interest in the show.

I don't get the problem with a shared universe.

I don't want Arrow connected to MOS because I don't think MOS was a good movie and don't want to see Arrow tainted by association. More importantly, I don't want the creators to be beholden to each other. They should be able to do whatever they want without worrying about continuity, character restrictions, or scheduling.

The fans already love Amell (and presumably Gustin though he isn't quite the Flash yet).With that much good will towards the characters,why scrap it all?

They aren't. Arrow will probably be renewed for a third season and Barry is getting a spinoff. They know what they're doing.

And don't say "People will ask 'why can't Ollie ask Clark for help?'" They'll be saying the same thing about Barry next year.

Which doesn't make it any more okay.

Besides: if they wanted to bring Barry over for a crossover, they could. It would be a lot trickier with Batman or Superman.

There's not really a problem with using the villains.I doubt a Batman film will focus on Ra's Al Ghul in the near future.But it doesn't prevent the same Ra's actor from showing up in a Batman film if they so choose.

Another issue. Why would the studio want to limit themselves to using the actors that were picked specifically for television shows when they could use big name actors or other available talent?

Again, if the producers want to do something as big as the earthquake and destroy part of Starling City or whatever, is logical to think that the JL should help Olllie and the city. Being separate frees the writers from lame excuses and writing such as "the JL is not available blahblahblah..." With Flash is a non-issue since they can have him as a guest star.

This.

 

[Human Torch]

I don't want Arrow connected to MOS because I don't think MOS was a good movie and don't want to see Arrow tainted by association.

I don't blame you,but lets face it.MOS is the hand we've been dealt.They are going forward from there,and nothing we can do will change that.

More importantly, I don't want the creators to be beholden to each other. They should be able to do whatever they want without worrying about continuity, character restrictions, or scheduling.

The comics have managed for a lot longer with a lot more complexity.I don't think it's going to be as big an issue as some are fearing.

 

[Human Torch]

Again, if the producers want to do something as big as the earthquake and destroy part of Starling City or whatever, is logical to think that the JL should help Ollie and the city. Being separate frees the writers from lame excuses and writing such as "the JL is not available blahblahblah..." With Flash is a non-issue since they can have him as a guest star.

How is it a non-issue?Either way you look at it,Barry is not going to be there to hold Ollie's hand every week.Viewers have to be dense to expect that Barry is going to help out on Arrow more than once or twice going forward.It's no different if it's Barry,Clark or Bruce.

 

[Human Torch]

Yeah, having campy, cheesy villains is better right?

The original series manged to do justice to the characters without going too far either way.

 

[Crimz]

Again, if the producers want to do something as big as the earthquake and destroy part of Starling City or whatever, is logical to think that the JL should help Ollie and the city. Being separate frees the writers from lame excuses and writing such as "the JL is not available blahblahblah..." With Flash is a non-issue since they can have him as a guest star.

Not that I want the universe to be shared but, I always thought that they could make it clear that each hero has their own turf. Superman has Metropolis, Batman has Gotham and they do not infringe on each others territory. It could be stated in a JL movie that they do not go to cities protected by other heroes. They only come together in the JL when a global or national threat occurs. I don't know why people would be wondering where is Superman to save the day in a Flash movie . It makes no sense to me.

 

[Nathan]

It makes sense for most heroes who do not have the means, not to infringe on other heroes territories. But someone like Superman has no limitations. He doesn't have travel expenses, he doesn't need hours to get around the globe. If he hears that a city is endangered by someone with an earthquake device, nuke or whatever, he's not gonna stay in his turf, because the city already has a hero. He's gonna fly over and see if he can lend a hand.

 

[Boy Scout]

I don't blame you,but lets face it.MOS is the hand we've been dealt.They are going forward from there,and nothing we can do will change that.

And as long as they don't connect Arrow to whatever it is they're doing next, I really don't care.

The comics have managed for a lot longer with a lot more complexity.

Comics don't have to worry about any of the stuff that sometimes prevents these things from happening in real life.

How is it a non-issue?Either way you look at it,Barry is not going to be there to hold Ollie's hand every week.Viewers have to be dense to expect that Barry is going to help out on Arrow more than once or twice going forward.It's no different if it's Barry,Clark or Bruce.

1) Flash has his own problems to do with.

2) If Oliver can handle it (or believes he can handle it), why would he need to call Barry? Does the police call in the National Guard for every little problem?

3) If Barry thinks he can lend a hand, he can just call Felicity and see if Oliver wants him to stop by and help.

Not that I want the universe to be shared but, I always thought that they could make it clear that each hero has their own turf. Superman has Metropolis, Batman has Gotham and they do not infringe on each others territory.

I think it's always been an unspoken rule.

It could be stated in a JL movie that they do not go to cities protected by other heroes. They only come together in the JL when a global or national threat occurs.

Which means they should probably come together every time Superman has to throw a punch. Most of his villains are more than capable of destroying the planet. We know that he could probably take the majority of them by himself, but in the context of the universe these characters exist in, it makes perfect sense for them to stop by and lend him a helping hand.

I don't know why people would be wondering where is Superman to save the day in a Flash movie . It makes no sense to me.

It makes perfect sense. If the threat the Flash is facing extends beyond the scope of the city he protects, why doesn't he call for help? Why doesn't anyone offer their help?

Don't get me wrong: it doesn't have to be a big deal. The writers could explain in a single line of dialogue that the protagonist tried to contact the other heroes, but they were either too busy or didn't respond.

 

[Mikelus]

You lost me.

Sorry, but you are in the minority, most people and fans like MOS:

http://www.superherohype.com/polls/409-how-would-you-rate-man-of-steel

Favorite Superman film: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/06/17/whats-your-favorite-superman-movie

Best summer movie:

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie...movie-poll-man-steel-saves-day-222445002.html

http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/co...nationwide-re-release-voted-best-movie-summer

And I don't think many think Arrow is better, but it may be the best superhero show ever so far.

 

[Nathan]

Well, I like both. But I still want them to be separate, so they can keep doing their own thing. Heck, I would want the Arrow-verse to eventually, a few seasons down the line, get their own Superman and Justice League.

 

[Boy Scout]

Sorry, but you are in the minority, most people and fans like MOS

I do not care.

 

[Loki882]

And we don't really care that you don't like it, so it runs both ways.

 

[Boy Scout]

Um...okay? Thanks for sharing. I never made any kind of comment about anyone liking it, so you don't need to get defensive.

 

[Loki882]

Again, if the producers want to do something as big as the earthquake and destroy part of Starling City or whatever, is logical to think that the JL should help Ollie and the city. Being separate frees the writers from lame excuses and writing such as "the JL is not available blahblahblah..." With Flash is a non-issue since they can have him as a guest star.

Not really, it's never been an issue in the comics. People don't constantly complain that Superman doesn't show up to help every time some catastrophe strikes Gotham, or Central City, etc. I doubt that most in the GA would even consider that, the only ones that seem to are fans.