The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[OnLeatherWings]

Whomever said that we don't really ever learn anything about these characters - you hit the nail on the head, for me.

I don't feel like we got to know anyone in this film.

 

[kguillou]

Ok, so I am not going crazy lol. I am glad ppl are enjoying it, but I kept thinking this is just a bigger budget fan-made film. Apart from what I think is a very underwhelming story, the film is just not exhilarating. No, Batman doesn't have to smile, but I am watching a comic book film, Bruce has zero personality.. And how many days does it rain in Gotham lol

Youre definitely not crazy. I enjoyed the film, a lot, but I also share some of your frustrations with it too. Exhilarating isnt a word i’d use for this movie. “Tense” is I think the correct word. There was an unsettling underlying tension throughout the whole movie which is a good thing. But I personally kept waiting for Reeves to deliver a mind blowing revelatory 3rd act twist that never came. Instead it was another “destroy Gotham City” plot when the two acts before it were promising a much more personal and game changing twist a la Sev7n. IMO. Idk, I didnt think thats where the film was headed and it seemed out of left field.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

We get to know plenty about these Characters, their back stories, their desires, and their motivations. The thing is, we're familiar with them all so they may not seem like new characters. What's great about this imo, is that the film makers know this, they know we know who these main players are at least at their core. So it doesn't waste time holding our hands retelling every last detail to the audience what it already knows about them.

 

[Sharkboy]

I get and validate the sentiment; but the whole ‘this is a comic book film therefore we need big action scenes and clear moments of levity’ is why I think comic book films are held back as a medium alot. Noirs are supposed to be chilly and slow, but I get they aren’t for everyone, but this is exactly what the film was always billed as. I have plenty of superhero movies to enjoy I really enjoyed how different this was.

 

[antsman41]

Whomever said that we don't really ever learn anything about these characters - you hit the nail on the head, for me.

I don't feel like we got to know anyone in this film.

[insert Goodfellas laughing gif]

 

[VonRomberg]

There are two fundamental things kind of nagging me about this film. Curious if anyone can offer any insight, because admittedly, only seen it once, I could've very easily not picked up on things.

1. Batman obviously knows Carmine Falcone and the mob exists. Up until this point has he really made 0 attempt to bring him down? I know it's a different take, but literally in Batman Begins the very first act of Batman is to take down a crime boss. And that just makes a lot of sense, if your goal is to clean up the city. I get that this Bruce is more 'damaged', but the fact that he thinks beating up petty thugs is going to solve anything when you know there are bigger fish...I dunno. This Batman clearly isn't afraid to put himself directly in harm's way either. I get that it's pretty much exactly where Keaton's Batman started, but we still saw that version save the city from a major threat in order to earn Gordon's trust. I'm not exactly sure why this Gordon would trust this version of Batman so implicitly to the point that he's already set up a Bat-signal and invites him to crime scenes. It could be there in the backstory, but I'm just left wondering about it.

2. How exactly does Riddler know all the dirty secrets that he does? This is something I feel like I maybe need to watch more closely for.

1. I assume there could be a couple of reasons. The first I thought of is that it points to Bruce’s shortsighted approach in his rookie period. He’s really just interested in beating the tar out of allegories for what he believes is his parents’ killer; street level thugs. The other is that at this stage in his career Bruce doesn’t really seem to see the big picture. He’s smart and he’s ballsy, but he isn’t quite the top-down strategic mastermind yet, the kind of guy who would try to topple the biggest players. You make a good point about the existing trust between Gordon and Batman needing a tad more meat to be believable, though.

2. This needed more airtime IMO. The way I pieced it together is he’s an accountant that followed the money and pieced this together by going through the books meticulously. What they could’ve/should’ve spent some more time on is that he’s a genius-level accountant that pieced together the paper-trail of corrupt cashflow linking most of Gotham’s institutions’ big wigs. They’ve done it before in BTAS (and Schumacher’s iteration IIRC) but I really like the idea of Riddler being a really intelligent disgruntled ex-employee that finds something big and decides to ‘unmask’ it. That whole theme needed more exploration IMO.

Completely random, but I liked that Riddler was a weird modern day whistleblower/Snowden, Unabomber, Zodiac killer, QAnon hybrid all rolled into one.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Not sure to be honest. I've loved Reeves since the Apes movies, which I think are still criminally underrated, but he seems to love exploring grittier themes. Finding hope and optimism through a prism of suffering. I have no doubt he could make a good movie with the Superman story, but would that necessarily be the best choice for Supes?

I also kinda don't want to see Superman or any other JL members connected to this Batverse, if I'm being honest. I love Batman as a character but I always thought his best stories were the ones with the fewest ties to the wider DC universe. I would much rather see them invest and expand on the Batverse, finally do Robin and co. justice.

The reason this movie worked so well is Reeves really nailed that feeling of Gotham being like a prison the citizens are trapped in. It's like a dark swamp and there's no escaping it. Batman is the only source of hope and he's a flawed, dark figure to even provide that properly. To me that illusion breaks a little the more I think about bright and shiny metropolis or other stuff like that.

That said, I DO slightly wish Reeves wasn't so against some of the more fantastical elements of the Batman verse. Like it's a shame that it might mean never getting to see a proper Ivy or Freeze or people like that. That said, I'm definitely hungry for more of this universe and whatever it involves.

I don't know he's so much against those fantastical elements as much he would adapt them to fit his vision. And I'd be happy with that. Heck both Freeze and ivy can be done that way. But it's really all how the execution is delivered.

 

[codesveburn]

After marinating for a few days i grow to like this even more. I feel attached to the character and esp Gotham already. This is a really good start for new installments. And since Bruce isn't that fleshed out here, they can do more in the sequel. Especially related to Martha, i'm quite unsatisfied at how they didn't explored that after the revelation

I have some questions. Can i ask why Selina used wigs for the second time? I dont get the point since Falcone knew her anyway...

I missed a lot of things so need 2nd watch asap but is there any relation of reservoir plan to renewal money so thats why riddler blow them up? Or it isnt?

 

[Iceman]

Keoghan was great. Love that he went with such a friendly, boyish voice. Makes a great contrast with the absolutely horrifying facial scarring.

Yeah, worked well for me. I knew this scene was coming but I thought it was going to be an after credits thing.

 

[Moncton]

I get and validate the sentiment; but the whole ‘this is a comic book film therefore we need big action scenes and clear moments of levity’ is why I think comic book films are held back as a medium alot. Noirs are supposed to be chilly and slow, but I get they aren’t for everyone, but this is exactly what the film was always billed as. I have plenty of superhero movies to enjoy I really enjoyed how different this was.

For myself, I don't need moments of levity or have every comic book movie follow the same formula. My main issue is that I personally didn't think the narrative was that engaging. And due to that the other things became more noticeably absent

 

[OnLeatherWings]

If I was a betting man, I'd say Reeves - given his '70s grit influence - is gonna go for a punk rock, Sex Pistols Sid Vicious type look and feel for his Joker.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I don't know he's so much against those fantastical elements as much he would adapt them to fit his vision. And I'd be happy with that. Heck both Freeze and ivy can be done that way. But it's really all how the execution is delivered.

I thought he'd already said as much in recent interviews? That characters like Superman would never exist in his world. I did see him say he'd be interested in finding a way to redeem Freeze but I think it's likely that he wouldn't be AS superpowered as he traditionally is. But obviously, I would love to be wrong about that haha. I agree it should be possible. I guess it's just about whether that excites Reeves or not.

 

[The Batman]

To each his own, but I think this is kinda the problem with Batman as a character and how audiences see him. This film was an absolutely perfect portrayal of Batman.... from some of his stories.

I wish more fans realized this.

Literally a few posts after this, you got someone talking about how Gotham is "supposed to be" one kind of way, as if there haven't been different kinds of Gotham throughout the character's history.

 

[AndyTrevino]

If I was a betting man, I'd say Reeves - given his '70s grit influence - is gonna go for a punk rock, Sex Pistols Sid Vicious type look and feel for his Joker.

That's what I'm thinking too, especially since he seems so young here.

 

[Brother Jack]

Was Riddler flooding the city foreshadowed at all before the third act? I'm trying to remember but when I saw the film it seemed to come out of nowhere, as far as master plans go. I thought maybe there was some dialogue about Gotham's levees early on or even some establishing shots of the Gotham river or something but I'm not sure.

 

[RokMeAmadeus]

To me, Keoghan's face looked reminiscent of Bermejo's original sketch for Joker, with more Bolland-like hair (but it seems as though there's no hair on the sides of the head at all, it all just kinda sits up on top)

 

[AndyTrevino]

To me, Keoghan's face looked reminiscent of Bermejo's original sketch for Joker, with more Bolland-like hair (but it seems as though there's no hair on the sides of the head at all, it all just kinda sits up on top)

With all the Bermejo influences seemingly present here already, I'm expecting that same Bermejo outfit for this new Joker but with different colors. Maybe make the coat blue like in ASHOSE, make the shirt purple, etc.

 

[BattleAngel]

Saw it again today on a smaller screen and liked it better. I agree it feels a bit like a fan film in moments, but I really think that has to do with how well tread this character is. For me, my overall rating went up. and I’m excited for more… but yeah, I don’t know. The characters didn’t totally connect. Gordon’s enjoyable but not at all three dimensional.

I love Pattinson and do feel majorly connected to his Batman. I am ready for more Oz. Those two stole the show for me. I also felt the actress playing Real went for it. But I didn’t connect with Alfred, Selina, or Gordon.

I liked them, I just didn’t connect. For all the issues I had with TDKT I think the Bruce/Alfred core, the vitality of Joker, the pain of Two Face, the madness of Scarecrow, and even a bit of Luscius Fox all felt connected to something. And Gary Oldman, even taking a paycheck, is still hard to match. Those films felt tapped into something elemental, despite a lot of problems.

I think the main thing I miss is that this was just a bad mystery - the twists and turns were all meh.

Oddly… I feel like the only way to go from here is to just go ahead and bring in Robin. I’ve been so anti-Robin, but I think they should just do it. This Batman had two partners. Shockingly, I feel like a partner character fits in better with this Bats than Bale’s.

I’m curious to see how it develops. But yeah… I don’t know, I am so mixed on it. So much I like but so much that could have been better.

I think if they can keep it detective focused but actually give us a great mystery, and a little less Se7en drear, we will be approaching perfection.

 

[DKDetective]

Was Riddler flooding the city foreshadowed at all before the third act? I'm trying to remember but when I saw the film it seemed to come out of nowhere, as far as master plans go. I thought maybe there was some dialogue about Gotham's levees early on or even some establishing shots of the Gotham river or something but I'm not sure.

I think the sea walls were mentioned. I want to say that Mitchell mentions then as one of the accomplishments of the Gotham Renewal Corp during the debate. I could be wrong and am confusing it with Zero Year which clearly sets up the flood that way.

 

[BattleAngel]

Was Riddler flooding the city foreshadowed at all before the third act? I'm trying to remember but when I saw the film it seemed to come out of nowhere, as far as master plans go. I thought maybe there was some dialogue about Gotham's levees early on or even some establishing shots of the Gotham river or something but I'm not sure.

he talks about the day of reckoning quite a bit, and the crowd outside the funeral does too. There are also some ominous shots of the sea wall an hour beforehand at least.

 

[flickchick85]

I think the sea walls were mentioned. I want to say that Mitchell mentions then as one of the accomplishments of the Gotham Renewal Corp during the debate. I could be wrong and am confusing it with Zero Year which clearly sets up the flood that way.

Yep. On my 2nd viewing, that was the first thing I caught onto in the opening scene that I had definitely missed the first time around: in the televised debate, the mayor talked about the seawall being the great accomplishment of the Renewal project.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Am I the only one who had a hard time following the Batmobile/Penguin chase?

It was hard to grasp the routes taken, the sense of location of the vehicles at different points and couldn't tell where they were going.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I want to say "fan film" feels a bit rough but the thing that occurred to me after seeing the film is it would've made a fantastic season of television. I know all the money is in big movies, but I think the pacing and style of storytelling would've really benefited from a few episodes. A True Detective style Batman show.

 

[DKDetective]

Yep. On my 2nd viewing, that was the first thing I caught onto in the opening scene that I had definitely missed the first time around: in the televised debate, the mayor talked about the seawall being the great accomplishment of the Renewal project.

Oooo. The symbolism of it breaking so easily, being a corrupt mob construction project. It was built on a rotten/weak foundation. Falcone's guys probably milked the job so badly!

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Cannot see the fan film thing at all.