Ant-Man The best way that Marvel can fix this

[Mysteryman]

The film was officially greenlit long before Wright left.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Joss Whedon must have a lot of knowledge/charm because they listen to what he says. If they both thought Wright was spot on with his take on Anty, wouldnt they support him until the very end? They wouldnt try to mess with his script and would help him change it in a way that was acceptable for both sides. I think Edgar just didnt know what he was doing on this project and Marvel stepped in before the film went right in the toilet. Now Im done... I think?

This is a false correlation, though. Are you suggesting that, after all these years that the project has been on Marvel's slate, that Feige and Marvel Studios are so negligent and incompetent that they only just got round to looking at the script and realising there were problems with it this late in the game? I for one have a lot more respect for Marvel than to assume that.

Clearly, Marvel were onboard with Wright's vision for the project. Clearly, they thought his take was "spot on," otherwise they wouldn't have greenlit it, wouldn't have approved the script, wouldn't have cast all the main roles, and wouldn't have gotten to the brink of production on the film getting started. Not only were they onboard, but Marvel loved Wright's take on this character so much that it made them want to make a film out of a property that, by their own account, they would have had zero interest in pursuing otherwise. This isn't a case of Edgar Wright's nasty comic-inaccurate take on Ant-Man VS Marvel Studios as the bastions of Hank Pym's honor defending a version truer to the source material. Marvel didn't have an opposing vision for Ant-Man at first because they had no vision for Ant-Man, the alternative to Edgar Wright doing this movie was this movie not happening.... at least not any time soon. Of course, no one knows the specifics, but logic would suggest that any "creative differences" probably tied into stuff that came later in the process - intricacies of tone, connectivity with the wider MCU, maybe - rather than the fundamentals that Marvel were overjoyed to approve. On that core level, Wright's vision was also Marvel's vision.

As I've said until I've blue in the face with no one seeming to acknowledge it, my problem is not with Marvel Studios having a vision for how these characters should be handled and enforcing it. That's within their right. It's, IF THE RUMOURS ARE TRUE, them making one call, then changing their mind at the 11th hour.

 

[TheVision]

^^ Yeah if they have any fault its the timing on this which def stinks BUT they may have known this months ago and we're just now getting the info.

 

[DrCosmic]

You can't really ask someone to make Edgar Wright's vision though because ultimately one way or another that's not what Marvel wanted in the end. Wright would still be on board if his vision was being pursued. Clearly for whatever reason that wasn't sorted out within the last 8 years Marvel want something that's different to what Wright wanted, so in essence Wright's vision is now effectively dead and the whole experience has done nothing but waste everyone's time. Right now the choices seem to be either salvage what's left, get some TV guy in to put together something as best they can and hope it turns out, or can the project altogether.

There's actually no way this is true. Wright's vision is why they're making the movie, so it's definitely not just been a waste of time, or gone anywhere.

Instead of trying to make up some scenario where Marvel was somehow out of the loop on their own film, accept the reality that Marvel loved Wright's vision, and the breakdown is a result of something other than the vision, some rumors say scheduling, some rumors say behind the back script changes. None say vision.

The choice has already been made, they're going forward with what they have, which is Wright's vision and the cast and prep and hype from Wright's project. That's the best choice, imho, because it's a great idea from a great filmmaker, and wasting that would be a waste.

OTOH, Marvel knew they were releasing the weekend after Harry Potter. I'm pretty sure they adjusted their expectations accordingly.

There are a few elements. I was just pointing out that typical-superhero-movie formula doesn't do as much as someone thought it did.

 

[DrCosmic]

Joss Whedon must have a lot of knowledge/charm because they listen to what he says. If they both thought Wright was spot on with his take on Anty, wouldnt they support him until the very end? They wouldnt try to mess with his script and would help him change it in a way that was acceptable for both sides. I think Edgar just didnt know what he was doing on this project and Marvel stepped in before the film went right in the toilet. Now Im done... I think?

So the only reason people ever listen to people is because of knowlege/charm? Time, positioning, context, value, personality, etc have nothing to do with it? Okay.

If Marvel likes Wrights' vision (as has been well documented), but Wright is behind schedule, or doesn't want to include Phase 3 easter eggs/setup, will they support that just because the film would be awesome? No.

I know you think Edgar Wright didn't know what he's doing, I'm just pointing out that your reasoning doesn't make sense.

 

[Mysteryman]

Yeah, it will be Wrights film, it just won't have his personal touch.

 

[TheVision]

DrCosmic: I was actually complimenting Joss and that wasnt to mean hes not more than that. Cmon. Youre getting way too picky on this.

Whatever happened EDGAR left. HE walked. So in a way hes at fault. He didnt/wouldnt accept the changes to his supreme master cinematic vision. So, too damn bad. Adios.

Now theyre going to use his basic ideas anyway but with a diff filmmaker? I say Cool. Now I only hope its better than it would be with Edgar directing it.

 

[DrCosmic]

^So you weren't saying that Wright was any less charming or knowledgable than Whedon? My bad then. But yeah, I can be picky when baseless or contrary-to-evidence supposition is presented as facts, like when you say Edgar Wright left, my brain instantly pulls up a list of references on how that's not at all factual. The my brain searches all the information we have for support for your statement and returns nothing. So it makes me 'picky.' I do the same thing with math problems, when someone says 3 + 3 = 7, I'm very picky.

Yeah, it will be Wrights film, it just won't have his personal touch.

Pretty much this.

 

[TheVision]

DrCosmic: Youre turning everything into a complex math problem here when its not that complicated. it really isnt. And 3+3 doesnt = 7, it equals 8. Cmon!

Wrights film without his personal touch = Fine with me. I dont think his "personal touch" would be the greatest thing ever in cinema anyway.

If Joss walked off The Avengers back when he made it, Id be on Marvels side then too. Its about doing whats best for these films. Not catering to one person and treating them like they run the studio.

 

[Keyser Soze]

DrCosmic: Youre turning everything into a complex math problem here when its not that complicated. it really isnt. And 3+3 doesnt = 7, it equals 8. Cmon!

Wrights film without his personal touch = Fine with me. I dont think his "personal touch" would be the greatest thing ever in cinema anyway.

If Joss walked off The Avengers back when he made it, Id be on Marvels side then too. Its about doing whats best for these films. Not catering to one person and treating them like they run the studio.

See, I just think this stance on the worth of creators over corporate branding is something we're going to fundamentally disagree on, because while The Avengers was always going to have the spectacle and the wow factor of all these characters coming together whoever did it, what keeps me coming back to it again and again and has solidified it as one of my favourite films of the last few years, is the heart and wit and skill for deft juggling of an ensemble cast that Joss Whedon brought to the table.

 

[DrCosmic]

If Marvel had booted Whedon over creative differences, like when he told them their roster mandate was wrong, we'd have gotten a much suckier movie, and everyone, including Marvel would have lost. But you'd be on Marvel's side? Wow. I disagree so hard, but I understand you now, and your thinking is consistent, so, there it is. I still think you're a bit out of touch with reality, seeing as how Marvel does kinda treat Whedon like he runs the studio, having him give notes to everyone, them included, but hey, that's just me being picky!

 

[Ant-manic]

So what do folks actually want from the movie going forward?

I just want a movie that you will hate. it's the essence of compromise.

 

[Krystal]

Maybe they should cancel it. No-one here seems excited for it anymore. Just in debating the break-up.

 

[DrCosmic]

It was never really for us anyway. It was for the GA, who doesn't even know about the movie yet anyway.

 

[TheVision]

Keyser and DrCosmic:

My main point being is that if they did split with Joss, it wouldve been for good reason. Same with any other director. I love his script for Avengers btw.

Joss is where he is because he works well with people and hes just an incredible mind, and perfect for Marvel. Edgar isnt. James Gunn said it best in his comments on the situation and he knows Joss and Edgar.

 

[Mysteryman]

Wright is no longer working on Ant Man because he isn't perfect for Marvel?

 

[Human Torch]

It was never really for us anyway. It was for the GA, who doesn't even know about the movie yet anyway.

Which is probably a good reason why Wright was fired in the first place.

 

[TheVision]

Wright is no longer working on Ant Man because he isn't perfect for Marvel?

I mean good not perfect. Sorry

 

[The Question]

Which is probably a good reason why Wright was fired in the first place.

1: We don't know he was fired.

2: I don't think that's a good reason.

 

[Human Torch]

1: We don't know he was fired.

2: I don't think that's a good reason.

1. They wouldn't let him make the movie.Even if he walked because he wouldn't play ball,the studio was the reason he gone.

2.I think it's a good reason.

 

[The Question]

1. They wouldn't let him make the movie.Even if he walked because he wouldn't play ball,the studio was the reason he gone.

That's kind of a grey area, I think.

2.I think it's a good reason.

Why?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Gunn said it best. It wasn't a good fit. Time for both parties to move on. hopefully the movie will come together with whomever is ultimately directing. I'm neither a Wright nor an Ant-man fanboy (using the term affectionately btw) so none of this stuff seems overly important to me. If the situation leads to another Thor 2, I'll get over it. Especially if GotG and A:AOU work out.

 

[Human Torch]

That's kind of a grey area, I think.



Why?

 

[The Question]

It's cool if you don't have an answer.

 

[Human Torch]

It's cool if you don't have an answer.

Even cooler if you had been paying a scintilla of attention to my posts over the last week.