The Better General Ross: Sam Elliott vs. William Hurt

[November Rain]

You're incorrect. The 'real' Ross has sided and worked with Hulk in the comic books before, albeit mostly because of extenuating circumstances, much like the one in my new favorite comic book adaption TIH.

Considering what stage of their careers this is, I think my point still stands for any early confrontations with the hulk and himself.

 

[Kirmit]

Well up till blonksy came along as abomination he was pretty much single minded, then failed to accept responsibility for his part in creating him (sheeping down to banner's questioning) and then wants to now help the hulk and let's him escape at the end but then ends up drunk in a bar without any real sense of achievement or purpose.

there was nothing particularly redeemable about the way he went about things with banner, his daughter or the hulk, let alone blonksy or anyone he had hurt by not making himself responsible. It's all even for a project that is no longer being funded (by my accounts).

So unless you saw he brought anything more to the table than that, i'm not particularly sure.

so yeah, he was an ass all the way through. One even willing to deviate from his hulk personal vendetta to help tony

If he was the one dimensional bad guy you're trying to make him out to be he would not of gone back and let banner jump out of the plane to help people below. He knew there was nothing he could do to abombination, him allowing Banner to try was him taking responsibility and doing something about it, what else could he do?!

Lets also not forget his ply for betty to leave him and go, was this the action of a bad guy? No, it was a selfless act, showing more than one side to his personality, not the single minded, one tone bad guy.

Lastly, there was the end, him telling the soldier to put his gun down and let hulk go (not that there was anyway of stopping him). That right there showed respect to the hulk for what he had done, effectively saving the city. Again, not the act of a one dimensional bad guy.

Thundebolt of the comics is a hardass, most of the time being a hot head general with an obsession with the hulk/banner. It's not often we see other sides to him, exactly like Hurt portrayed the character, with glimpses here and there of Ross' personality beyond the military general.

 

[November Rain]

He still let banner of all people talk down to him without any form of a retort.

As for the rest, it doesn't particularly show growth if he's off drinking in a bar afterwards. He messed up big time and had to let the hulk go because he couldn't stop him and he owed him one.

so it's not exactly any depth. There's more depth on spectacular spiderman.

 

[Kirmit]

He still let banner of all people talk down to him without any form of a retort.

As for the rest, it doesn't particularly show growth if he's off drinking in a bar afterwards. He messed up big time and had to let the hulk go because he couldn't stop him and he owed him one.

so it's not exactly any depth. There's more depth on spectacular spiderman.

Why do you think he let banner talk down to him? You think he was scared of banner? The guy had just realised he had messed up big time, again, he was in shock, that reaction is far more realistic than had he shouted banner down.

The reason for the Bar is likely after the incident in the New york his career would be in tatters and for someone who had worked that long to get as far as he had, it would shatter their world.

 

[November Rain]

Personally I don't think banner had any right to have any sort of moral ground considering he had killed people as teh hulk, I would have expected ross to consider blonsky less of the two evils initially based on his long term vendetta. You don't talk to ross like that, no matter how much **** has hit the fan, he can always justify his actions.

 

[Kirmit]

Personally I don't think banner had any right to have any sort of moral ground considering he had killed people as teh hulk, I would have expected ross to consider blonsky less of the two evils initially based on his long term vendetta. You don't talk to ross like that, no matter how much **** has hit the fan, he can always justify his actions.

There is no such thing as a general who can always justify his actions, not even in the comics, at some point they're going to be stunned, shocked even at something in their career, it's too unrealistic to think otherwise.

 

[DACrowe]

While I prefer Elliot's, I have to be fair and say given the circumstances at the end of TIH, Ross letting Banner Hulk out and trying to help him kill Abomination was perfectly in character and a realistic action. He is trying to save lives at this point.

 

[Midnight Black]

Hurt would put the HURTt: on Elliot!

*Drunk off power...or...maybe....whiskey*

*No seriously I'm sober...but my split personality is not*

 

[Hiruu]

There is no such thing as a general who can always justify his actions, not even in the comics, at some point they're going to be stunned, shocked even at something in their career, it's too unrealistic to think otherwise.

Hurt realized that he had created a bigger monster than the one he had been chasing...he realized this well before the ending scene, but it too that for him to see. No senior military officer wants to throw his/her folks into a meat grinding no-win situation...What was the risk for Ross:

1. Hulk defeats Blonsky, and maybe he's too weak as well, and he can capture both.

2. Hulk defeats Blonsky and escapes, but he can continue to chase him.

3. Abomination defeats Hulk, but is too weak to continue as well.

4. Potentially lose hundreds of soldiers, level the city by using heavy artillery and tanks, while inflicting massive civillian deaths by both the monster and the military.

Yeah, if anybody actually believes a freaking General in the US Army will go for #4, you're evidently absolutely clueless. Especially in light of the standards that we see realtime in conflicts that the US is involved in in RL.

 

[The Batman Hulk]

Sam Elliot was the better General Ross, even though William Hurt was good too.

 

[Kirmit]

Hurt realized that he had created a bigger monster than the one he had been chasing...he realized this well before the ending scene, but it too that for him to see. No senior military officer wants to throw his/her folks into a meat grinding no-win situation...What was the risk for Ross:

1. Hulk defeats Blonsky, and maybe he's too weak as well, and he can capture both.

2. Hulk defeats Blonsky and escapes, but he can continue to chase him.

3. Abomination defeats Hulk, but is too weak to continue as well.

4. Potentially lose hundreds of soldiers, level the city by using heavy artillery and tanks, while inflicting massive civillian deaths by both the monster and the military.

Yeah, if anybody actually believes a freaking General in the US Army will go for #4, you're evidently absolutely clueless. Especially in light of the standards that we see realtime in conflicts that the US is involved in in RL.

Yeah I actually said basically that in a previous post, the post you quoted was in response as to why Ross let Banner talk down to him.

 

[November Rain]

only six behind, progress is being made.

There is no such thing as a general who can always justify his actions, not even in the comics, at some point they're going to be stunned, shocked even at something in their career, it's too unrealistic to think otherwise.
_________

there are somethings patriots always seem to do. They don't let the enemy to which they see have no moral fibre dictate to them about right or wrong.

Ultimately ross did what he thought was right and was willing to defend his actions up to that point to anyone, considering banner had done more damage over his career of the hulk, i'm not sure exactly what leg he had to stand on.

If he felt bad, he should have apologised to betty, banner or someone before during or after the whole ordeal, instead he just froze and that's the point.

Effectively after that point he served no purpose in the film. He made a mistake and wasn't man enough to truelly help out (gunman work doesn't count). It's not like he allowed banner to jump out anyway, he was pretty much overuled in the cabin and one could say he didn't wish to antagonise the hulk so he let him go at the end.

Elliot's ross always had a finger on the button and a number of contingency plans, he wouldn't have let blonksy go off the rails and that's the different. He didn't let talbot go off the rails or at least had a contigency plan ready for when the crap hit the fan and also back up plans on both occassions when the hulk was in his custody.

If they both went into war with one another elliot's ross would gather more respect from his men, would lead better and would have better strategies to deal with the enemy and any other hostiles.

 

[Kirmit]

November we're going to have to agree to disagree on this but I will say you may be right Elliotts ross may gain more respect and be the better general but that is not the question at hand. The question is who is the better general ross and that fact is Hurt was much closer to the comicbook Ross.

 

[November Rain]

for me, ross has always been a character with big enough balls and battle smarts to give the hulk a problem, the fact hurt froze under pressure and made a mess of things from the word go means he doesn't get my respect as a worthy adversary.

just that look the hulk and ross shared in the desert scene is enough to prove elliots case.

But i'm happy to disagree,

ps, what happened to the strength thread, i leave one night and everything is rosy and because of a couple of comments, the whole thing gets closed, I mean wtf? Why didn't they let it carry on, I wanted to comment about sava's latest findings about the nuke absorbtion

 

[The Guard]

If that was the case he would have tried to talk to Bruce and see what it was and see if he could get him some help....when he first heard about him going Hulk from "Talbot" or whatever.

Instead he didn't. As soon as the opportunity arose. He was basically running around and saying, "I told you so, I told you so. I knew he was no good."

I mean we knew he wasn't suppose like the Hulk and Banner for that from the comics, but holding a grudge because of his father. You can be concerned and suspicious about the guy without being a d*ck to him because of what his father did. Elliot was a d*ck to him, and Bruce had no clue why.

I didn't say he didn't have a grudge. I said that's not his only motivation. He doesn't JUST have a grudge.

Ross was a dick to Bruce in 2003 because of the situation, not just because of Bruce's father. He was somewhat paranoid given the nature of Bruce's work, and he was trying to get answers out of Bruce. He thought the "repressed memories" was a cover. He said "I told you so" for the same reasons anyone does: because he had told her so, not because he had a grudge and no other reasons to be suspicious or concerned.

 

[Obi-Ron]

The question is who is the better general ross and that fact is Hurt was much closer to the comicbook Ross.

Ross' motivation in the comic was always that he wanted to stop the Hulk, to protect his daughter and his country. The "They want to dissect the creature and make it into a weapon" angle was lifted from Talbot's character in Ang Lee's Hulk. I felt that was a poor choice, as it made Hurt's Ross more 2-dimensional and less sympathetic than Elliott's.

 

[Midnight Black]

Ross' motivation in the comic was always that he wanted to stop the Hulk, to protect his daughter and his country. The "They want to dissect the creature and make it into a weapon" angle was lifted from Talbot's character in Ang Lee's Hulk. I felt that was a poor choice, as it made Hurt's Ross more 2-dimensional and less sympathetic than Elliott's.

I see where you are coming from, but think of this......

If they did not make Hurt's Ross, in your theory, a combination of Talbot and Ross, from Hulk 03. Then there would have been no need for the military to chase and provoke the Hulk to come out of hiding, given the fact that they know what happens to him when you make him Angry. THUS there would be no movie.

If Hurt's Ross was just a protector patriot type without motivations of wanting to control and harness the power of the Hulk, then he would Be smarter, as some of you think Elliot's Ross was, and left the Hulk alone since there have been 176 days[give or take a few] without incident. WHY even provoke him then.....there would not have been a movie if Hurt's Ross was like Elliot's minus Talbot. You need that Talbot personality. And to be honest I would rather see Ross have a power hungry, alpha-male, aggressor attitude than Talbot.

Which one has the nickname "Thunderbolt"?...Yeah, I thought so
[I refrain].

 

[Kirmit]

Ross' motivation in the comic was always that he wanted to stop the Hulk, to protect his daughter and his country. The "They want to dissect the creature and make it into a weapon" angle was lifted from Talbot's character in Ang Lee's Hulk. I felt that was a poor choice, as it made Hurt's Ross more 2-dimensional and less sympathetic than Elliott's.

At first yeah but he went developed a crazy obsession with the hulk and his power, Hurt displayed this and wanting to protect his daughter, country and ultimately stop the hulk, he had all the traits of the comic character.

 

[November Rain]

I see where you are coming from, but think of this......

If they did not make Hurt's Ross, in your theory, a combination of Talbot and Ross, from Hulk 03. Then there would have been no need for the military to chase and provoke the Hulk to come out of hiding, given the fact that they know what happens to him when you make him Angry. THUS there would be no movie.

That's not the case at all, it's worked fine in the comics for decades and also in ang lee's hulk, why is it suddenly a lack of motivation now. Is not stopping and killing a murdering monster enough motivation?

If Hurt's Ross was just a protector patriot type without motivations of wanting to control and harness the power of the Hulk, then he would Be smarter, as some of you think Elliot's Ross was, and left the Hulk alone since there have been 176 days[give or take a few] without incident. WHY even provoke him then.....there would not have been a movie if Hurt's Ross was like Elliot's minus Talbot. You need that Talbot personality. And to be honest I would rather see Ross have a power hungry, alpha-male, aggressor attitude than Talbot.

Justice doesn't work that way, you don't stop hunting a mass murdering rapist just because he's had no victims in a few months.

You don't stop hunting a rampaging beast capable of killing more innocents and nearly killed you and your daughter just because you haven't seen him for a while. It's supposed to be a personal vendetta against the hulk, hurt's ross only wanted him for business, he didn't care he nearly killed him or betty or the amount of damage or lives he's ruined, he just wants the serum, there's no connection between the entities, the hulk to hurt is just finishing a job and getting a paycheck.

Elliot's ross is personal, even after a nuclear bomb goes off, he still wants to make sure the hulk is dead personally, he has no reason to continue, the hulk case is officially closed, yet he is uneasy years after the events and still wants to make sure the hulk is down and so stalks and taps his own daughter's communications. That is a ross.

Which one has the nickname "Thunderbolt"?...Yeah, I thought so
[I refrain].

also which one started caring about the hulk and ultimately stopped chasing him.

Ross to the hulk is like jonah to spiderman, they are always constant antagonists that will never cease even though physically they may not amount to much, their neutrality and consistence are underlying factors to which they may never be underestimated.

look at jonah when he screated scorpion, he was still mouthing off ot spidey after the experiment went wrong and still persues him to this day, there's no moral backlash because men like himself and ross are stubborn leaders with personal vendettas and the resources to continue their fixations till the end.

 

[Nivek]

Hurt was more of a selfish self righteous bully. Elliot came off more as the protective father from hell. I think Hurt is a better Ross if they are playing him as an antagonist to Banner.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

Hurt was way better than Elliot. In fact I think all the actors in the new hulk are an Improvement. Norton makes a perfect Banner, while I thought Bana was totally miscast.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Considering what stage of their careers this is, I think my point still stands for any early confrontations with the hulk and himself.

Your original point was that Ross would never team with Hulk, no matter how you look at it you're still wrong about it.

This movie is in it's own world not the comics or television show, yet the characterizations were done well.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Hurt was more of a selfish self righteous bully. Elliot came off more as the protective father from hell. I think Hurt is a better Ross if they are playing him as an antagonist to Banner.

I can't believe I read this from you.!?! Figured you for an Elliot guy.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Again, another poll people will vote in support of the newcomer in the role due to wanting the new franchise to do well. Understandable but hardly an accurate measure

 

[Gamma Ra]

re

Again, another poll people will vote in support of the newcomer in the role due to wanting the new franchise to do well. Understandable but hardly an accurate measure

Then you should read what the movie goers are saying on other unbiased message boards as well, know it all.