The Bond 23 Thread

[Doctor Jones]

I always liked the idea of seeing Craig's Bond lose his humanity and just start to become the cold blooded killer. He was already like that, but you did see his ability to truly love, and Craig had that down. When Vesper dies, she's one of the only women in his life that he really loves. Then women down the line become like they are in the other films. It seems logical to me. He kind of regresses. From the beginning of CR from getting with a beautiful woman to Vesper, his true love, then go back is a good arc to see. It's really one of the only Bond's we've seen where we've seen Bond actually transform by the end of the film. Here's it's better since it's the beginning of his career. In CR they really had all this down perfectly. They captured all the right aspects and answered all the right questions with regards to Bond and what he could have been at the start of his career.

 

[Metallo]

if they ditch Quantum for Bond 23, it would be like QoS never happened. An alternate universe Satan dreamt up.

between Craigs two movies QoS is the one that they could get away with referencing the least in Bond 23.

I always liked the idea of seeing Craig's Bond lose his humanity and just start to become the cold blooded killer. He was already like that, but you did see his ability to truly love, and Craig had that down. When Vesper dies, she's one of the only women in his life that he really loves. Then women down the line become like they are in the other films. It seems logical to me. He kind of regresses. From the beginning of CR from getting with a beautiful woman to Vesper, his true love, then go back is a good arc to see. It's really one of the only Bond's we've seen where we've seen Bond actually transform by the end of the film. Here's it's better since it's the beginning of his career. In CR they really had all this down perfectly. They captured all the right aspects and answered all the right questions with regards to Bond and what he could have been at the start of his career.

Thats why I liked seeing CR buck the trend because of the nature of the movie. Its one of the rare times Bond doesn't have that impenetrable wall of his persona. Craig's Bond is a man with deep and sometimes conflicting emotion and probably the most human Bond.

OHMSS is one of the few other times where I've seen that side portrayed for an extended period in a Bond film.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I'd say that is pretty accurate, although only part of Octopussy feels like it has an Indy influence. Was Moonraker written before Stars and such became popular?

There's no doubt Craig's Bond has been influenced by Bourne but also Bauer IMO.


It's amazing how long that squabble went on for.

Kevin McClory hurt the Bond movies with his lawsuits. I still wish Blofeld was the main villain in The Spy Who Loved. I think Bond shootin Blofeld in the balls and killing would have been the greatest moment in the history of the Bond series.

And Moonraker I hear is pretty different from the novel, and was written to cash in the popularity of space exploration after Star Wars made ton of money.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Most of them are vastly different from the novels. Moonraker's pretty bad, The Spy Who Loved me was bad too (even using the climax for Live And Let Die which they never used in the movies anyways).

The movies were so off the mark as far as adaptations go that author Christopher Wood was hired to write novelizations based on movies based on books ... kinda like Dracula a few years ago. Two of his novels being TSWLM and MR.

One of the reasons I don't watch the movies.

Oh, and the actual end of the Blofeld story is You Only Live Twice, but such is life when you don't adapt books in order, change the stuff that ties one book to the next to the point where there is no thru narrative, ****e yourself to Hollywood trends.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

But there was a reason for TSWLM. Fleming refused to let to do a movie version of that story because he hated it and Bond isn't even in it for most of the book. He only licensed to the title to them.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Kevin McClory hurt the Bond movies with his lawsuits. I still wish Blofeld was the main villain in The Spy Who Loved. I think Bond shootin Blofeld in the balls and killing would have been the greatest moment in the history of the Bond series.

And Moonraker I hear is pretty different from the novel, and was written to cash in the popularity of space exploration after Star Wars made ton of money.

Was Blofeld the main villain in the Spy Who Loved me novel? I thought all the issues with him tied into Thunderball not Blofeld specifically.

I read the synopsis, it seems completely different bar the title. Yeah I recall the "Bond goes Star Wars" stuff, maybe the worst idea in the history of the franchise. Moonraker was actually written in 55.

Most of them are vastly different from the novels. Moonraker's pretty bad, The Spy Who Loved me was bad too (even using the climax for Live And Let Die which they never used in the movies anyways).

The movies were so off the mark as far as adaptations go that author Christopher Wood was hired to write novelizations based on movies based on books ... kinda like Dracula a few years ago. Two of his novels being TSWLM and MR.

One of the reasons I don't watch the movies.

Oh, and the actual end of the Blofeld story is You Only Live Twice, but such is life when you don't adapt books in order, change the stuff that ties one book to the next to the point where there is no thru narrative, ****e yourself to Hollywood trends.

All this time in the Bond thread and I didn't realize that you didn't watch the movies.

What exact part from Live and Let Die did they use in the movie version of TSWLM?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Was Blofeld the main villain in the Spy Who Loved me novel? I thought all the issues with him tied into Thunderball not Blofeld specifically.

No, he wasn't. The original draft of TSWLM had Blofeld as the main villain and I believe that his plot was also slightly altered (instead of being crazy he wanted money). Kevin McClory threatened to sue if they used Blofeld.

McClory won an injunction and had the rights to SPECTRE, including Blofeld so after DAF they couldn't use either in a movie. How they got away with it in FYEO I have no idea. I guess it's because his face wasn't shown nor was his name mentioned.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Oh, and the actual end of the Blofeld story is You Only Live Twice, but such is life when you don't adapt books in order, change the stuff that ties one book to the next to the point where there is no thru narrative, ****e yourself to Hollywood trends.

Well OHMSS was supposed to be film after Goldfinger, but then they got the okay to do Thunderball after the rights dispute. Then it was supposed to be filmed after Thunderball, but they had problems with how they were going to shoot the snow scenes so they decided to do You Only Live Twice, which I guess they used only because it was the only other book SPECTRE if I'm correct.

 

[Hunter Rider]

No, he wasn't. The original draft of TSWLM had Blofeld as the main villain and I believe that his plot was also slightly altered (instead of being crazy he wanted money). Kevin McClory threatened to sue if they used Blofeld.

McClory won an injunction and had the rights to SPECTRE, including Blofeld so after DAF they couldn't use either in a movie. How they got away with it in FYEO I have no idea. I guess it's because his face wasn't shown nor was his name mentioned.

Ah I see, I didn't realize he won the rights to SPECTRE as an entire entity, does he still have the rights?

When they killed off Blofeld in the fashion they did in FYEO, as a kid, I couldn't understand it, it was some spectacular stunt work with the chopper but it seemed odd to me that Bond's main villain was killed off in such an anti-climactic way, it wasn't until many years later I got it. You're right though, how they got away with it is a mystery.

Well OHMSS was supposed to be film after Goldfinger, but then they got the okay to do Thunderball after the rights dispute. Then it was supposed to be filmed after Thunderball, but they had problems with how they were going to shoot the snow scenes so they decided to do You Only Live Twice, which I guess they used only because it was the only other book SPECTRE if I'm correct.

Where do you get all this info from? I've found in the last few days that this thread has taught me new things about the franchise even all these years of being a fan..

Out of curiosity, what were the problems in shooting the snow scenes for OHMSS back when it was going to be a Connery film?

 

[Visceral]

All this time in the Bond thread and I didn't realize that you didn't watch the movies.

Even the new one scratch? Huh unfortunate.

I just picked up the first two novels gonna read my way through them. I'm curious to know which one is your favorite?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Where do you get all this info from? I've found in the last few days that this thread has taught me new things about the franchise even all these years of being a fan..

Out of curiosity, what were the problems in shooting the snow scenes for OHMSS back when it was going to be a Connery film?

The combination of wikipedia, youtube video reviews (not as reliable as the others but I double check info a lot), and a Bond book I read in a library.

I believe that the problem was the locations in general. They just didn't like them for shooting.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Was Blofeld the main villain in the Spy Who Loved me novel? I thought all the issues with him tied into Thunderball not Blofeld specifically.
I read the synopsis, it seems completely different bar the title. Yeah I recall the "Bond goes Star Wars" stuff, maybe the worst idea in the history of the franchise. Moonraker was actually written in 55.
All this time in the Bond thread and I didn't realize that you didn't watch the movies.
What exact part from Live and Let Die did they use in the movie version of TSWLM?

A bit of an exaggeration on my part. Sorry if it was misleading. I have indeed seen all the Bond films, even own up to CR on DVD. But I never revisit them really. I saw QOS once, in the theaters, that's it, never saw it again. The same can be said for most of them. As films I like them but there is a disconnect with me because I'm a fan of the books so I have the DVDs mostly because I'm a completest but really the only time they ever get played is if my dad comes over.

The bit with Bond being pulled behind the boat was used in the film TSWLM, but it's the climax of the book LALD.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Back to real Bond 23 news, I wonder how true this story is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2012464/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-Naomies-licence-thrill.html

If so, I think it would be awesome have Harris as Moneypenny. She's one of the characters I wanted back in the Bond movies.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Works for me, Moneypenny's African born according to the Moneypenny Diaries novels.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The combination of wikipedia, youtube video reviews (not as reliable as the others but I double check info a lot), and a Bond book I read in a library.

I believe that the problem was the locations in general. They just didn't like them for shooting.

Ah I see, I have to hand it to you man, you have made yourself very knowledgeable.

Gotcha, so any idea what changed with the locations by the time they came to shoot it with Lazenby? I remember seeing the place that was used for Blofeld's base in the mountains, absolutely spectacular, did they find that later on after the Connery one fell through?

A bit of an exaggeration on my part. Sorry if it was misleading. I have indeed seen all the Bond films, even own up to CR on DVD. But I never revisit them really. I saw QOS once, in the theaters, that's it, never saw it again. The same can be said for most of them. As films I like them but there is a disconnect with me because I'm a fan of the books so I have the DVDs mostly because I'm a completest but really the only time they ever get played is if my dad comes over.

The bit with Bond being pulled behind the boat was used in the film TSWLM, but it's the climax of the book LALD.

Ah right I see, so you'll be watching this new one but probably not buying it?

I'm not sure which bit that is, in my mind I am seeing it as the sequence from FYEO where Bond and Melina are dragged behind the boat in the shark infested waters.

Back to real Bond 23 news, I wonder how true this story is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2012464/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-Naomies-licence-thrill.html

If so, I think it would be awesome have Harris asMoneypennyy. She's one of the characters I wanted back in the Bond movies.

I almost forgot this isn't just a general James Bond thread given all the great discussions over the last few days about the whole series.

Bringing Moneypenny back is interesting, I wonder if the role would be bigger than usual, as the size it normally has been seems a small role for Harris to take.

Works for me,Moneypenny'ss African born according to theMoneypennyy Diaries novels.

I'm guessing these are a more recent spin-off series?

 

[spidey-dude]

All this time in the Bond thread and I didn't realize that you didn't watch the movies.

What exact part from Live and Let Die did they use in the movie version of TSWLM?

Ive read all the books but only seen a handful of the movies, its annoying watching them when they are inferior to the source material, live and let die pisses me off to no end as it was one of my fav books, ive never watched moonraker because i hear it is nothing like the book (which was great)

I hope Harris isnt Moneypenny, I dont find her attractive at all

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Ah I see, I have to hand it to you man, you have made yourself very knowledgeable.

Gotcha, so any idea what changed with the locations by the time they came to shoot it with Lazenby? I remember seeing the place that was used for Blofeld's base in the mountains, absolutely spectacular, did they find that later on after the Connery one fell through?

Thanks. When studying film, I try to learn from the best, and learn what not do with the worst.

I don't really know what the exact issue is, but from sound of it, it sounds like they were just unsatisfied the locations and probably thought You Only Live Twice would be easier to adapt. Despite being a completely different story, both take place in Japan.

I think You Only Live Twice is the only movie where 99% of the movie is in one country.

I almost forgot this isn't just a general James Bond thread given all the great discussions over the last few days about the whole series.

Bringing Moneypenny back is interesting, I wonder if the role would be bigger than usual, as the size it normally has been seems a small role for Harris to take.

I've long considered this to just be the "007 thread" instead of just the thread for next Bond movie. A great place to discuss all of Bond's history.

Ive read all the books but only seen a handful of the movies, its annoying watching them when they are inferior to the source material, live and let die pisses me off to no end as it was one of my fav books, ive never watched moonraker because i hear it is nothing like the book (which was great)

I hope Harris isnt Moneypenny, I dont find her attractive at all

I don't know if it's inferior or not, but I've always considered both Bond films and Bond novels to be two entirely different entities that sometimes overlap, but I've been always more or less lenient on adaptations and don't care for changes if the movie itself is entertaining.

I liked Live and Let Die, but I understand you would be pissed at it, seeing that I believe they used different parts of that novel for a bunch of movies according to other people. I never read it, so I don't know.

 

[Ajendo]

Snap. Auric Goldfinger is by far my favorite Bond villain. He was brilliant. From cheating at card games and golf, to delivering that brilliant speech about the planned assault on Fort Knox, to murdering his gangster associates, to nearly cutting off Bond's crown jewels with a laser. Classic villain and he had loads of memorable dialogue, particularly in his scenes with Bond.

Plus he delivered what is probably the most iconic line of the series after "Bond...James Bond" and that is:

Bond: "Do you expect me to talk?"
Goldfinger: "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die"

I also loved his "Choose your next witticism carefully, Mr. Bond, it may be your last".

Perefectly said on all accounts.

 

[Ajendo]

Bond: "Do you expect me to talk?"
Goldfinger: "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die"

I also loved his "Choose your next witticism carefully, Mr. Bond, it may be your last".

You are a clever man, Mr Bond. Perhaps too clever. Twice our paths have crossed and I do not intend to be interrupted by a third.

 

[Hunter Rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf_I84W-_cw

The voice over on this trailer for OHMSS is hilarious, especially in the first few lines. I wonder if trailers were seen as less important back then.

Ive read all the books but only seen a handful of the movies, its annoying watching them when they are inferior to the source material, live and let die pisses me off to no end as it was one of my fav books, ive never watched moonraker because i hear it is nothing like the book (which was great)

I hope Harris isnt Moneypenny, I dont find her attractive at all

What was the story in the book version of Live and Let Die?

I've long considered this to just be the "007 thread" instead of just the thread for next Bond movie. A great place to discuss all of Bond's history.

I think You Only Live Twice is the only movie where 99% of the movie is in one country.

It has certainly been that recently. Maybe when the movie starts shooting and the thread becomes centered on Bond 23, we can make a separate all encompassing Bond thread.

I think you're right and it's really effective, one of my personal favourites bar Bond being operated on to look Japanese, I imagine that silly idea wasn't in the book, but the plot was cool, Blofeld and SPECTRE indulging in a spot of Grand Theft Space Shuttle.

 

[spidey-dude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf_I84W-_cw


What was the story in the book version of Live and Let Die?

Bond goes to Harlem to investigate smuggling (i think its been a while) run in with mr bigs organisation, meets up with felix, tracks them down to another part of u.s - felix eaten by shark - bond goes to jamaica (again maybe wrong location) finds out they are smuggling stuff from inside of volcano - take son mr big

I know it doesnt sound great when put like that but it really is alot better than the film

if i got to have a crack at james bond, thats what i would adapt, big is already an agent of SMERSH in the books so could easy be quatum to fit in with the current series - would start the book with bond being forced to have time off, someone tries to kill him on way to airport (think this was in the book anyway) pre credit scenes would be the car chase, then bond getting into footchase, guy is about to talk when he is sniped (you see this through the cross hairs) bond spins around and shoots the sniper (still in scope view) and blood drips down as with the classic gun barrel sequence - credits - bond goes to see M, introduce moneypenny, demands to be put on the case and is sent to harlem.....

yeah ive given it some thought

 

[Hunter Rider]

Bond goes to Harlem to investigate smuggling (i think its been a while) run in with mr bigs organisation, meets up with felix, tracks them down to another part of u.s - felix eaten by shark - bond goes to jamaica (again maybe wrong location) finds out they are smuggling stuff from inside of volcano - take son mr big

I know it doesnt sound great when put like that but it really is alot better than the film.

Interestingly the bolded bits were incorporated into Licence To Kill and You Only Live Twice. I'm guessing Teehee and the Baron Samedi were not in the book?

if i got to have a crack at james bond, thats what i would adapt, big is already an agent of SMERSH in the books so could easy be quatum to fit in with the current series - would start the book with bond being forced to have time off, someone tries to kill him on way to airport (think this was in the book anyway) pre credit scenes would be the car chase, then bond getting into footchase, guy is about to talk when he is sniped (you see this through the cross hairs) bond spins around and shoots the sniper (still in scope view) and blood drips down as with the classic gun barrel sequence - credits - bond goes to see M, introduce moneypenny, demands to be put on the case and is sent to harlem.....

yeah ive given it some thought

It's interesting to note that SMERSH were involved in drug running in the books.

I like your set up, it sounds great and would fit well, plus your idea for the shot that leads into the credits would be visually amazing.

 

[Doctor Jones]

People should be able to separate the movies from the books when watching them. It can be hard, but it's not fair to the film. But I can see what people mean, especially if there's missed opportunities from the books where it could have easily figured into the film. Did alot of legal trouble prevent this?

I haven't read the novels, but since I've been accustomed to the films all these years, it shouldn't be hard to forgive the changes.

Moonraker as a novel is very different from the movie, and it sounds a lot better. They don't even go into space.

 

[Crockett]

Interestingly the bolded bits were incorporated into Licence To Kill and You Only Live Twice. I'm guessing Teehee and the Baron Samedi were not in the book?

Teehee was a normal crook who worked for Mr. Big and he didn't have a metal arm. He doesn't actually have a big role actually. Baron Samedi doesn't appear in the novel, instead it was that people believed the rumors going around that Mr. Big was Baron Samedi himself or that he was a zombie. He's not however but Mr. Big puts a totem to Baron Samedi on his desk just to make people fear him.

Anyway I've only read two Bond novels but I can set aside difference when there's an adaptation. However I'm not oppose to a closer adaptation in the future, doubt that would happen but it'd be cool.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Teehee was a normal crook who worked for Mr. Big and he didn't have a metal arm. He doesn't actually have a big role actually. Baron Samedi doesn't appear in the novel, instead it was that people believed the rumors going around that Mr. Big was Baron Samedi himself or that he was a zombie. He's not however but Mr. Big puts a totem to Baron Samedi on his desk just to make people fear him.

Anyway I've only read two Bond novels but I can set aside difference when there's an adaptation. However I'm not oppose to a closer adaptation in the future, doubt that would happen but it'd be cool.

The way they used the Baron Samedi idea seems much better than in the movie, I was surprised in the movie when they went the whole way with the character and had him sitting on the end of train at the end.