BvS The BvS Rumor/Speculation Discussion Thread! - Part 4

[Unbreakable Lex]

I think the Knightmare scene is clear.

Darkseid wins and has turned Earth into Apocolypse. His new champion is Superman. Batman is leading the resistance against Superman and Darkseid's minions.

There are fire pits in the big sweeping Batman/Omega picture, a clear indication that Darkseid's plan to turn Earth into a new Apocolypse has succeeded. Superman is now with Darkseid and this future is given to Bruce as some sort of future unless they can come together to prevent it.

 

[NateHevens]

I think the Knightmare scene is clear.

Darkseid wins and has turned Earth into Apocolypse. His new champion is Superman. Batman is leading the resistance against Superman and Darkseid's minions.

There are fire pits in the big sweeping Batman/Omega picture, a clear indication that Darkseid's plan to turn Earth into a new Apocolypse has succeeded. Superman is now with Darkseid and this future is given to Bruce as some sort of future unless they can come together to prevent it.

Then why are the parademons only attacking Superman's soldiers and ignoring Batman and (presumably) his soldiers?

 

[rogbngp]

I think the Knightmare scene is clear.

Darkseid wins and has turned Earth into Apocolypse. His new champion is Superman. Batman is leading the resistance against Superman and Darkseid's minions.

There are fire pits in the big sweeping Batman/Omega picture, a clear indication that Darkseid's plan to turn Earth into a new Apocolypse has succeeded. Superman is now with Darkseid and this future is given to Bruce as some sort of future unless they can come together to prevent it.

That sounds like a very reasonable possible interpretation of the vision/dream.

 

[egg]

in terms of superman dying earlier in the film than we expect, i'm not sure what to think of that speculation. i mean, would there be some sort of a different timeline or something? how would they continue the batman v superman dynamic if he dies earlier in film lol?

 

[MAN O STEEL]

I think the Knightmare scene is clear.

Darkseid wins and has turned Earth into Apocolypse. His new champion is Superman. Batman is leading the resistance against Superman and Darkseid's minions.

There are fire pits in the big sweeping Batman/Omega picture, a clear indication that Darkseid's plan to turn Earth into a new Apocolypse has succeeded. Superman is now with Darkseid and this future is given to Bruce as some sort of future unless they can come together to prevent it.

That scenario contradicts the footage. The footage clearly shows Darkseid's parademons attacking the superman soldiers, not Batman. Batman is also fighting Superman's soldiers. They are clearly fighting together. Batman would be more susceptible to Darkseid's control given his clearly disturbed, tortured personality. Alfred specifically states Bruce's rage and feeling of powerlessness that turns good men cruel. Bruce is a good man, turning cruel could be what Darkseid feeds off in his vision. Maybe Bruce has this vision and realizes he's going about the Superman situation all wrong and needs to rectify it before Darkseid's future Apokalips can come to fruition.

 

[rogbngp]

If it is a vision/dream (as Michael Wilkinson stated) it is not necessarily going to be 100% perfectly logical and consistent with reality. Batman's brain is creating these images internally. He's not in the ordinary, every-day conscious waking state, I don't think. It's not literally happening.

Also, for all we know in the next frame maybe the parademons turn on Bats! We only get the briefest glimpse of what is happening there.

 

[godisawesome]

Maybe, if Superman and Batman don't ally, they both end up leading opposing Anti-Darkseid campaigns, with him tainting both heroes.

 

[Jaxon]

If it is a vision/dream (as Michael Wilkinson stated) it is not necessarily going to be 100% perfectly logical and consistent with reality. Batman's brain is creating these images internally. It's not literally happening.

Also, for all we know in the next frame maybe the parademons turn on Bats! We only get the briefest glimpse of what is happening there.

Pretty much like this isn't exactly how the world would look like under Zod.

 

[rogbngp]

Pretty much like this isn't exactly how the world would look like under Zod.

I'm still struck every time I see this by the swing set in that vista.

 

[Rogzilla]

If it is a vision/dream (as Michael Wilkinson stated) it is not necessarily going to be 100% perfectly logical and consistent with reality. Batman's brain is creating these images internally. He's not in the ordinary, every-day conscious waking state, I don't think. It's not literally happening.

Also, for all we know in the next frame maybe the parademons turn on Bats! We only get the briefest glimpse of what is happening there.

I always assumed that they did take him. That's how he ends up captured for Superman to unmask him.

Although....I always assumed the unmasking scene was the end of the dream sequence. What if its the start? What if Batman manages to somehow escape (hey, its Bruce's dream, he can kill Superman all he wants). We then get that shot of him coming out from a bunker, the camera sweeps around and we see the Omega. The Superman soldiers come after Batman as the Parademons descend and THAT'S where the dream ends.

This isn't a literal vision or even symbolic of the future, but symbolic of the struggle within Bruce. When he kills hope, the darkness comes. In this case, it is literally Darkseid influencing Bruce.

 

[Charlatan]

I always assumed that they did take him. That's how he ends up captured for Superman to unmask him.

Although....I always assumed the unmasking scene was the end of the dream sequence. What if its the start? What if Batman manages to somehow escape (hey, its Bruce's dream, he can kill Superman all he wants). We then get that shot of him coming out from a bunker, the camera sweeps around and we see the Omega. The Superman soldiers come after Batman as the Parademons descend and THAT'S where the dream ends.

This isn't a literal vision or even symbolic of the future, but symbolic of the struggle within Bruce. When he kills hope, the darkness comes. In this case, it is literally Darkseid influencing Bruce.

it's hard to tell just how those pieces of that scene all fit together chronologically but I would guess that it starts with the team Batman is leading riding up to the place on the horses. They engage the Supertroops in a fight. It appears that Batman's team loses and he is captured and taken into the underground bunker and tied up along with some of his men.
Supes lands, is greeted by his troops and then unmasks Bruce. Then somehow he is released/escaped and emerges from the bunker with his cowl back on, only to survey the Omega symbol and the total devastation.
From the clip it's hard to tell who exactly the parademons are carrying off.
It could very well be both sides of the conflict. But I agree that if Darkseid is corrupting anyone it would probably be Bruce.

 

[Tobias]

in terms of superman dying earlier in the film than we expect, i'm not sure what to think of that speculation. i mean, would there be some sort of a different timeline or something? how would they continue the batman v superman dynamic if he dies earlier in film lol?

Are folks expecting that Superman dies in BvS?

My issue with that is one, though the JL cast has not been formally announced, the JL1 concept art shows Superman part of the team.

As far as we know Supes is in JL1.

Killing him in BvS means he is either brought back within BvS which would be cramming way too much into that film. And be a gimmick.

Or he is brought back in JL1 which would be a major subplot and take time away from introducing the full JL team.

Either way its contrived and awkward.

 

[ernesth100]

He's not gonna die. He may be beat to near death though

 

[matt47]

Kinda hope Supes doesn't die because we know in this universe that when a Kryptonian dies, he ded. Look at Zod. And I don't really want a miracle/omg Superman has risen! kinda thing.

 

[AnneFan]

Kinda hope Supes doesn't die because we know in this universe that when a Kryptonian dies, he ded. Look at Zod. And I don't really want a miracle/omg Superman has risen! kinda thing.

If it's a Batman nightmare, maybe Batman dies? Doing everything he can to stop Superman but always coming up short.

 

[RadioSha]

I don't want Superman to die, but I can see a scenario where he sacrifices himself or at least does something heroic at the end and people think he's dead, but Clark is still around.

And I don't mean that he's still in Metropolis. Maybe Clark has gone off to seclude himself from modern society- going off into the forests/desert/remote villages. A montage similar in tone like this would be cool:

[YT]zmicfGmQZ9s?t=5s[/YT]

Or maybe after flying with Doomsday to the sun (like All-Star Superman... but with Doomsday), he survives but flies off into deep space.

 

[Jaxon]

I don't want Superman to die, but I can see a scenario where he sacrifices himself or at least does something heroic at the end and people think he's dead, but Clark is still around.

And I don't mean that he's still in Metropolis. Maybe Clark has gone off to seclude himself from modern society- going off into the forests/desert/remote villages. A montage similar in tone like this would be cool:

[YT]zmicfGmQZ9s?t=5s[/YT]

Or maybe after flying with Doomsday to the sun (like All-Star Superman... but with Doomsday), he survives but flies off into deep space.

And he'll return 5 years later while his mother is writing postcards for him about travelling in the Himalayas or something...

 

[Tobias]

I don't want Superman to die, but I can see a scenario where he sacrifices himself or at least does something heroic at the end and people think he's dead, but Clark is still around.

And I don't mean that he's still in Metropolis. Maybe Clark has gone off to seclude himself from modern society- going off into the forests/desert/remote villages. A montage similar in tone like this would be cool:

[YT]zmicfGmQZ9s?t=5s[/YT]

Or maybe after flying with Doomsday to the sun (like All-Star Superman... but with Doomsday), he survives but flies off into deep space.

Flying off into space is cool but how then do they fit that into him being in JL1? Per the concept art he is part of the League in the first film? Its all too cluttered to bring all that together IMO.

 

[matt47]

Goyer already confirmed that this Superman can't fly deep into space I'm pretty sure.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I think the Knightmare scene is clear.

Darkseid wins and has turned Earth into Apocolypse. His new champion is Superman. Batman is leading the resistance against Superman and Darkseid's minions.

There are fire pits in the big sweeping Batman/Omega picture, a clear indication that Darkseid's plan to turn Earth into a new Apocolypse has succeeded. Superman is now with Darkseid and this future is given to Bruce as some sort of future unless they can come together to prevent it.

Oh man, that would be so epic!

 

[rogbngp]

I'll just say that I'll be very surprised if Superman dies in BvS.

 

[Tobias]

I'll just say that I'll be very surprised if Superman dies in BvS.

True.

Especially as Cavill has said he's in JL1 and the concept art for JL1 showing him as one of the members.

It doesn't make sense given Cavill's comments and the art. Amy is supposedly in JL1 too. Another reason it wouldn't make sense.

WB has not officially released the roster of JL members for the first film but it is pretty much given there will be 6 at least. The six shown on the poster.

 

[rogbngp]

The poster we saw for the CW special on 1/19 was concept art, but for them to use it to launch their marketing on TV with a special like that I think does reflect that Superman is obviously a part of the JL. He's standing in the lead position of the "V" for that matter. Zack Snyder has called him "the chairman of the board" for the JL and the DCEU. There's a video at Man of Steel Answers that is a big compilation of him talking about how important the character is to the unfolding cinematic universe. To kill Superman only to resurrect him for the next film would feel lame to fans, I think.

With MoS Snyder has already shown that he intends to tell his own unique story. And while he selects what he likes from comic book canon, he is also no slave to it. Just because Doomsday is in this film should in no way be taken to mean that DD will kill Superman. I think they'll come up with a more creative end of the fight. Plus it's going to be the trinity versus DD anyway, so already it's an original tale versus following the comic book.

 

[Tobias]

The poster we saw for the CW special on 1/19 was concept art, but for them to use it to launch their marketing on TV with a special like that I think does reflect that Superman is obviously a part of the JL. He's standing in the lead position of the "V" for that matter. Zack Snyder has called him "the chairman of the board" for the JL and the DCEU. There's a video at Man of Steel Answers that is a big compilation of him talking about how important the character is to the unfolding cinematic universe. To kill Superman only to resurrect him for the next film would feel lame to fans, I think.

With MosS Snyder has already shown that he intends to tell his own unique story. And while he selects what he likes from comic book canon, he is also no slave to it. Just because Doomsday is in this film should in no way be taken to mean that DD will kill Superman. I think they'll come up with a more creative end of the fight. Plus it's going to be the trinity versus DD anyway, so already it's an original tale versus following the comic book.

It would be lame.

Given JL starts filming in May or so and Cavill has said he will be there filming. Meaning he is in JL1.

I think the WB CEO actually specifically confirmed Affleck and Cavill. No others - in 2014 as being in JL. There has been no PR about the actual actors in JL but Tujihara did call Affleck and Cavill out as returning for JL1 in a shareholders meeting.

 

[Tobias]

The poster we saw for the CW special on 1/19 was concept art, but for them to use it to launch their marketing on TV with a special like that I think does reflect that Superman is obviously a part of the JL. He's standing in the lead position of the "V" for that matter. Zack Snyder has called him "the chairman of the board" for the JL and the DCEU. There's a video at Man of Steel Answers that is a big compilation of him talking about how important the character is to the unfolding cinematic universe. To kill Superman only to resurrect him for the next film would feel lame to fans, I think.

With MoS Snyder has already shown that he intends to tell his own unique story. And while he selects what he likes from comic book canon, he is also no slave to it. Just because Doomsday is in this film should in no way be taken to mean that DD will kill Superman. I think they'll come up with a more creative end of the fight. Plus it's going to be the trinity versus DD anyway, so already it's an original tale versus following the comic book.

The bigger issue beyond resurrecting him in JL1 is that Batman and WW would be the founding JL members and Superman comes on board down the road in JL somewhere. That would be a total departure from canon. Not to have Supes one of the founding JL members.