BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 3

[idiot09]

i did not like the TC (i will say i almost hate it in fact).

but i like the UC. it still has some flaws that are too easy to pick out. but the major problems are fixed. so i enjoyed it quite a bit.

but but but...only deluded dc fans think that the UC was an improvement.

 

[Sleiek]

That was sarcasm.

You only care about UE because you are in it.

 

[Flint Marko]

How many times do you people need to read his post to understand he's just a troll? You know what they say? don't feed the troll.

If you honestly believe that me saying mean things about a movie you like counts as trolling, I'd recommend putting me on ignore.

Flint Marko has been a member here for 10 years. If he was known for trolling forums he'd never have made it past 2006. In all the years I've known him I've never seen him get so much as a verbal warning. There's no need to get salty with him just because the UC failed to win him over, as if that's an anomaly or something.

Thank you
Been here ten years, and I'll be here for ten more.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Finally got hold of the UC, looking forward to it, hopefully watching it tonight but if not at the weekend.

 

[harlequinade]

Finally got hold of the UC, looking forward to it, hopefully watching it tonight but if not at the weekend.

Same here, watching it tonight! Never seen it before but wanted to see it before Suicide Squad.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

i finally got to see it myself last week and really dug it. that said, it was and remains a 7ish outta 10 for me, and i didn't think the extended cut breathed new life or made it a whole new movie by any means. it fleshed more things out, gave clark more screen time which was needed, but i'm not sure how anyone who found the movie not to their liking would come around to it after seeing the extended cut. this is a personal preference, but i think these movies need to come in at 2 hours, and if you can't achieve a comic film in that time, you're open to too many threads or dangling plot points that lessen the effectiveness of the inherent pulp nature of comic books.

 

[King23DC]

Yeah but TDK trilogy had all their films at slightly over 2.5 hours and they're the best movies in this genre by far. But for other less talented film makers or characters, I think I'd agree.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I watched the Ultimate Edition last night. Here's my review...

I seem to be in the minority given its critical reception, but I really enjoyed BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE. It was a blast catching it on the IMAX screen at the time of its release. Still, I recognised it had its share of flaws, albeit not enough to justify the savage lashing it got from many sources, I feel. So, I was interested to see if the Blu-Ray Ultimate Edition, with its additional 30 minutes if runtime, would help amend these issues. I'm pleased to report that it does indeed, with almost all the theatrical cut's major flaws at least partially fixed. The result is what should be considered the definitive version of the film going forward.

What does the Ultimate Edition fix? First off, the narrative of the film has a clearer shape. Parts that felt rushed before, characters making rash, abrupt or out-of-character decisions? They are now given more thorough and grounded context. Henry Cavill's Superman feels less like the brash, aloof bully the truncated cut presented him as and more as a frustrated idealist struggling to grasp the human angle of crime in Gotham and finding himself horrified by Batman's violent methods. I really liked Ben Affleck's Batman first time round, but was a little uncomfortable with just how dark and near murderous he had become, but the film makes overt what was before only implied: that this is only recent, uncharacteristic behaviour, Batman pushed to the extreme by the recent events surrounding Superman's arrival and he is in desperate need of being pulled back from the brink. I had felt since first viewing that Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was unfairly maligned, and that conviction is only strengthened here as we see in greater detail just how masterful and monstrous his scheme to destroy Superman and corrupt Batman is. In full context, it really is clear that this Lex Luthor is a vicious, evil little s***, and one of the most viscerally unpleasant villains to ever be in a superhero film. Even Lois Lane, underserved a bit in the original cut, gets to be more of an investigative reporter this time round.

There are still some issues, of course. The religious allegory is perhaps a bit too frequent and on-the-nose. Zack Snyder's direction - while mostly stylish - does at points become overwrought: those slow-motion bullets, man! I think the human persona of Clark Kent is still a bit underdeveloped, particularly as pertains to his job at the Daily Planet, though that's more a failing of MAN OF STEEL that comes to a head here than necessarily a fault of this film. And while the last hour is an all-action smackdown, there could maybe have been some more action earlier rather than much of the first two-thirds being almost all build-up. And yet, on that last point, that unusual structure is in a way a strength, too. Even more apparent in this version of the film, much of the film's first half is like a pressure cooker, the screw turning and turning and the tension rising to the crisis point of the Senate Hearing. Then from there we begin the next phase of intense build-up into the final confrontation. But this isn't really a film about action and fights, though it does have those. It's a film about icons and ideas, and it's kinda bold to take the stance that the cultural icons of Batman and Superman merit a 3-hour film, used to explore notions of dark thoughts and dangerous ideas taking root in even the best of us, how media can inform hysteria, in a manner that feels more eerily relevant now in a post-Brexit (pre-Trump?) darkest timeline 2016 than it even did a few months ago.

It's funny, I watched DUNE a few weeks back. That's another movie that was panned on its release, and watching it I still don't like it. But it has found a following as an arch, baroque, unwieldy exploration of ambitious big ideas against a crazed genre backdrop that was ahead of its time and misunderstood. And I feel BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE is due a similar critical reassessment in years to come.

9/10

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

great review, keysore. agree some, disagree some, but thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth review, it was a pleasure to read.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I agree with the assessment that the Ultimate Edition isn't going to change the minds of people who hated the Theatrical Cut. If you liked the Theatrical Cut but thought there were some flaws, then you'll likely see the Ultimate Edition as an improvement. I rated the cinematic version 7/10 as opposed to the 9/10 for the 3-hour version. But if you were one of the folk who thought BvS was worse than BATMAN & ROBIN/2003 DAREDEVIL level terrible as the Rotten Tomatoes score suggests, that extra half hour isn't going to radically change your mind.

 

[Keyser Soze]

great review, keysore. agree some, disagree some, but thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth review, it was a pleasure to read.

Thanks!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I watched the Ultimate Edition last night. Here's my review...

I seem to be in the minority given its critical reception, but I really enjoyed BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE. It was a blast catching it on the IMAX screen at the time of its release. Still, I recognised it had its share of flaws, albeit not enough to justify the savage lashing it got from many sources, I feel. So, I was interested to see if the Blu-Ray Ultimate Edition, with its additional 30 minutes if runtime, would help amend these issues. I'm pleased to report that it does indeed, with almost all the theatrical cut's major flaws at least partially fixed. The result is what should be considered the definitive version of the film going forward.

What does the Ultimate Edition fix? First off, the narrative of the film has a clearer shape. Parts that felt rushed before, characters making rash, abrupt or out-of-character decisions? They are now given more thorough and grounded context. Henry Cavill's Superman feels less like the brash, aloof bully the truncated cut presented him as and more as a frustrated idealist struggling to grasp the human angle of crime in Gotham and finding himself horrified by Batman's violent methods. I really liked Ben Affleck's Batman first time round, but was a little uncomfortable with just how dark and near murderous he had become, but the film makes overt what was before only implied: that this is only recent, uncharacteristic behaviour, Batman pushed to the extreme by the recent events surrounding Superman's arrival and he is in desperate need of being pulled back from the brink. I had felt since first viewing that Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was unfairly maligned, and that conviction is only strengthened here as we see in greater detail just how masterful and monstrous his scheme to destroy Superman and corrupt Batman is. In full context, it really is clear that this Lex Luthor is a vicious, evil little s***, and one of the most viscerally unpleasant villains to ever be in a superhero film. Even Lois Lane, underserved a bit in the original cut, gets to be more of an investigative reporter this time round.

There are still some issues, of course. The religious allegory is perhaps a bit too frequent and on-the-nose. Zack Snyder's direction - while mostly stylish - does at points become overwrought: those slow-motion bullets, man! I think the human persona of Clark Kent is still a bit underdeveloped, particularly as pertains to his job at the Daily Planet, though that's more a failing of MAN OF STEEL that comes to a head here than necessarily a fault of this film. And while the last hour is an all-action smackdown, there could maybe have been some more action earlier rather than much of the first two-thirds being almost all build-up. And yet, on that last point, that unusual structure is in a way a strength, too. Even more apparent in this version of the film, much of the film's first half is like a pressure cooker, the screw turning and turning and the tension rising to the crisis point of the Senate Hearing. Then from there we begin the next phase of intense build-up into the final confrontation. But this isn't really a film about action and fights, though it does have those. It's a film about icons and ideas, and it's kinda bold to take the stance that the cultural icons of Batman and Superman merit a 3-hour film, used to explore notions of dark thoughts and dangerous ideas taking root in even the best of us, how media can inform hysteria, in a manner that feels more eerily relevant now in a post-Brexit (pre-Trump?) darkest timeline 2016 than it even did a few months ago.

It's funny, I watched DUNE a few weeks back. That's another movie that was panned on its release, and watching it I still don't like it. But it has found a following as an arch, baroque, unwieldy exploration of ambitious big ideas against a crazed genre backdrop that was ahead of its time and misunderstood. And I feel BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE is due a similar critical reassessment in years to come.

9/10

As always, very good review Keyser. Makes me look forward to watching the UC even more.

 

[King23DC]

Soze is right about it possibly being more appreciated in the long run, similar to Batman Returns and TDK Rises.

But 9/10 is a bit much. That's putting it in TDK trilogy class, which is absurd.

It's still directed by Hack Snyder. The acting is not on that level. The direction and cinematography isn't on that level. The clarity of themes isn't on that level. There's still little charisma, energy or spirit. Still a needlessly bleak and depressing take on possibly the 3 most iconic heroes of the genre.

The UC makes the narrative and character motivations make slightly more sense. That's it.

 

[STARMAN]

BvS held onto the top of Home Video sales chart for 2nd week.

 

[Micromind]

I watched the Ultimate Edition last night. Here's my review...

I seem to be in the minority given its critical reception, but I really enjoyed BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE. It was a blast catching it on the IMAX screen at the time of its release. Still, I recognised it had its share of flaws, albeit not enough to justify the savage lashing it got from many sources, I feel. So, I was interested to see if the Blu-Ray Ultimate Edition, with its additional 30 minutes if runtime, would help amend these issues. I'm pleased to report that it does indeed, with almost all the theatrical cut's major flaws at least partially fixed. The result is what should be considered the definitive version of the film going forward.

What does the Ultimate Edition fix? First off, the narrative of the film has a clearer shape. Parts that felt rushed before, characters making rash, abrupt or out-of-character decisions? They are now given more thorough and grounded context. Henry Cavill's Superman feels less like the brash, aloof bully the truncated cut presented him as and more as a frustrated idealist struggling to grasp the human angle of crime in Gotham and finding himself horrified by Batman's violent methods. I really liked Ben Affleck's Batman first time round, but was a little uncomfortable with just how dark and near murderous he had become, but the film makes overt what was before only implied: that this is only recent, uncharacteristic behaviour, Batman pushed to the extreme by the recent events surrounding Superman's arrival and he is in desperate need of being pulled back from the brink. I had felt since first viewing that Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was unfairly maligned, and that conviction is only strengthened here as we see in greater detail just how masterful and monstrous his scheme to destroy Superman and corrupt Batman is. In full context, it really is clear that this Lex Luthor is a vicious, evil little s***, and one of the most viscerally unpleasant villains to ever be in a superhero film. Even Lois Lane, underserved a bit in the original cut, gets to be more of an investigative reporter this time round.

There are still some issues, of course. The religious allegory is perhaps a bit too frequent and on-the-nose. Zack Snyder's direction - while mostly stylish - does at points become overwrought: those slow-motion bullets, man! I think the human persona of Clark Kent is still a bit underdeveloped, particularly as pertains to his job at the Daily Planet, though that's more a failing of MAN OF STEEL that comes to a head here than necessarily a fault of this film. And while the last hour is an all-action smackdown, there could maybe have been some more action earlier rather than much of the first two-thirds being almost all build-up. And yet, on that last point, that unusual structure is in a way a strength, too. Even more apparent in this version of the film, much of the film's first half is like a pressure cooker, the screw turning and turning and the tension rising to the crisis point of the Senate Hearing. Then from there we begin the next phase of intense build-up into the final confrontation. But this isn't really a film about action and fights, though it does have those. It's a film about icons and ideas, and it's kinda bold to take the stance that the cultural icons of Batman and Superman merit a 3-hour film, used to explore notions of dark thoughts and dangerous ideas taking root in even the best of us, how media can inform hysteria, in a manner that feels more eerily relevant now in a post-Brexit (pre-Trump?) darkest timeline 2016 than it even did a few months ago.

It's funny, I watched DUNE a few weeks back. That's another movie that was panned on its release, and watching it I still don't like it. But it has found a following as an arch, baroque, unwieldy exploration of ambitious big ideas against a crazed genre backdrop that was ahead of its time and misunderstood. And I feel BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE is due a similar critical reassessment in years to come.

9/10

Nice review !

I agree with your points, I liked the Ultimare Edition, though some flaws remain, I would have preferred that Eisenberg had gone for less over the top acting here, and also that fight between Batman V Superman went on too long. My initial score for the Theatrical Cut was 6/10 which I later on downgraded to 5.5 /10, for UE it went up to 7/10.

 

[Micromind]

Soze is right about it possibly being more appreciated in the long run, similar to Batman Returns and TDK Rises.

But 9/10 is a bit much. That's putting it in TDK trilogy class, which is absurd.

It's still directed by Hack Snyder. The acting is not on that level. The direction and cinematography isn't on that level. The clarity of themes isn't on that level. There's still little charisma, energy or spirit. Still a needlessly bleak and depressing take on possibly the 3 most iconic heroes of the genre.

The UC makes the narrative and character motivations make slightly more sense. That's it.

In my opinion, Snyder is not less than likes of Louis Leterrier, Brad Payton or Alan Taylor, nobody calls those MCU directors Hack though.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I watched the Ultimate Edition last night. Here's my review...

I seem to be in the minority given its critical reception, but I really enjoyed BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE. It was a blast catching it on the IMAX screen at the time of its release. Still, I recognised it had its share of flaws, albeit not enough to justify the savage lashing it got from many sources, I feel. So, I was interested to see if the Blu-Ray Ultimate Edition, with its additional 30 minutes if runtime, would help amend these issues. I'm pleased to report that it does indeed, with almost all the theatrical cut's major flaws at least partially fixed. The result is what should be considered the definitive version of the film going forward.

What does the Ultimate Edition fix? First off, the narrative of the film has a clearer shape. Parts that felt rushed before, characters making rash, abrupt or out-of-character decisions? They are now given more thorough and grounded context. Henry Cavill's Superman feels less like the brash, aloof bully the truncated cut presented him as and more as a frustrated idealist struggling to grasp the human angle of crime in Gotham and finding himself horrified by Batman's violent methods. I really liked Ben Affleck's Batman first time round, but was a little uncomfortable with just how dark and near murderous he had become, but the film makes overt what was before only implied: that this is only recent, uncharacteristic behaviour, Batman pushed to the extreme by the recent events surrounding Superman's arrival and he is in desperate need of being pulled back from the brink. I had felt since first viewing that Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was unfairly maligned, and that conviction is only strengthened here as we see in greater detail just how masterful and monstrous his scheme to destroy Superman and corrupt Batman is. In full context, it really is clear that this Lex Luthor is a vicious, evil little s***, and one of the most viscerally unpleasant villains to ever be in a superhero film. Even Lois Lane, underserved a bit in the original cut, gets to be more of an investigative reporter this time round.

There are still some issues, of course. The religious allegory is perhaps a bit too frequent and on-the-nose. Zack Snyder's direction - while mostly stylish - does at points become overwrought: those slow-motion bullets, man! I think the human persona of Clark Kent is still a bit underdeveloped, particularly as pertains to his job at the Daily Planet, though that's more a failing of MAN OF STEEL that comes to a head here than necessarily a fault of this film. And while the last hour is an all-action smackdown, there could maybe have been some more action earlier rather than much of the first two-thirds being almost all build-up. And yet, on that last point, that unusual structure is in a way a strength, too. Even more apparent in this version of the film, much of the film's first half is like a pressure cooker, the screw turning and turning and the tension rising to the crisis point of the Senate Hearing. Then from there we begin the next phase of intense build-up into the final confrontation. But this isn't really a film about action and fights, though it does have those. It's a film about icons and ideas, and it's kinda bold to take the stance that the cultural icons of Batman and Superman merit a 3-hour film, used to explore notions of dark thoughts and dangerous ideas taking root in even the best of us, how media can inform hysteria, in a manner that feels more eerily relevant now in a post-Brexit (pre-Trump?) darkest timeline 2016 than it even did a few months ago.

It's funny, I watched DUNE a few weeks back. That's another movie that was panned on its release, and watching it I still don't like it. But it has found a following as an arch, baroque, unwieldy exploration of ambitious big ideas against a crazed genre backdrop that was ahead of its time and misunderstood. And I feel BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE is due a similar critical reassessment in years to come.

9/10

Great review. And agreed on the bold part. I think instead of the montage of Superman rescuing scenes perhaps they could have done a dramatic/action piece with one of the scenarios.

BvS held onto the top of Home Video sales chart for 2nd week.

 

[NosfeRomas]

In my opinion, Snyder is not less than likes of Louis Leterrier, Brad Payton or Alan Taylor, nobody calls those MCU directors Hack though.

That's an insult to Zack Snyder. These guys are professional directors, they have no voice. They get in, get the job done in the most unispiring way possible and they get out. Zack Snyder tries to have a voice and to take things old school. He wants to be in the Chris Nolan camp, albeit not very successfuly but he is that category of director.

 

[Sleiek]

I watched the Ultimate Edition last night. Here's my review...

I seem to be in the minority given its critical reception, but I really enjoyed BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE. It was a blast catching it on the IMAX screen at the time of its release. Still, I recognised it had its share of flaws, albeit not enough to justify the savage lashing it got from many sources, I feel. So, I was interested to see if the Blu-Ray Ultimate Edition, with its additional 30 minutes if runtime, would help amend these issues. I'm pleased to report that it does indeed, with almost all the theatrical cut's major flaws at least partially fixed. The result is what should be considered the definitive version of the film going forward.


9/10

Pretty much how I feel about the movie. Look at my signature.

I won't agree with people saying Snyder is a hack. Snyder atleast TRIES and puts thought behind his frame at storyboard level. He may not excel at being absolutely clear but it is an insult to people who work hard.

I don't know if I disclosed this before but when I first saw the movie I was shocked, not in a good way or a bad way. I was shocked to see Snyder created more of a drama than an action film. I was expecting an action film but it was mainly a drama that explores the minds behind these heroes and what they are capable of and how easy it is to lose your way and how relevant it is to humanity. I expected and wanted something else but I got something I fell in love with.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

BvS held onto the top of Home Video sales chart for 2nd week.

lol I remember Green Lantern, Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man 2 being top of sales charts as well

http://www.blogofoa.com/2011/10/green-lantern-tops-us-dvd-sales-charts.html

http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwtv/...ps-DVD-Blu-ray-Sales-Week-Ending-824-20140902

http://www.superherohype.com/features/95023-fantastic-four-tops-dvd-sales-and-rentals

 

[Sleiek]

lol. Some people here.

BvS is still number 1 in the second week. Are you going to link every single movie in history that was number 1 in its second week home video sales?

 

[Micromind]

That's an insult to Zack Snyder. These guys are professional directors, they have no voice. They get in, get the job done in the most unispiring way possible and they get out. Zack Snyder tries to have a voice and to take things old school. He wants to be in the Chris Nolan camp, albeit not very successfuly but he is that category of director.

I was giving an example of how less well received MCU directors do not get labeled as "Hack" but Snyder does, I'm not saying that Snyder is at the same level as those directors.

 

[King23DC]

I was giving an example of how less well received MCU directors do not get labeled as "Hack" but Snyder does, I'm not saying that Snyder is at the same level as those directors.

But those directors are known to be run of the mill.

Snyder is a hack because he tries, even with the best possible resources or material at his disposal, and fails over and over again

It's a trend with him. Not to mention the way he talks up his own films ... he thinks of himself in the Nolan class of film maker and he's not. He conveys his story, characters and themes like an ADD frat boy.

He's a moron who thinks he's making high art. That's what makes him a hack. If had any self awareness ala someone he's more akin to as a film maker, someone like Michael Bay, I think things would work out in his favor as he wouldn't be held to such lofty standards.

 

[Sleiek]

Guess we both have to agree to disagree then.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Soze is right about it possibly being more appreciated in the long run, similar to Batman Returns and TDK Rises.

But 9/10 is a bit much. That's putting it in TDK trilogy class, which is absurd.

It's still directed by Hack Snyder. The acting is not on that level. The direction and cinematography isn't on that level. The clarity of themes isn't on that level. There's still little charisma, energy or spirit. Still a needlessly bleak and depressing take on possibly the 3 most iconic heroes of the genre.

The UC makes the narrative and character motivations make slightly more sense. That's it.

For context, I gave both TDK and Begins 10/10. I gave TDKR 9/10, as like BvS I found it to be very ambitious film with some flaws, but which struck a really strong personal resonance with me. I'd say TDKR is still he better of the two, and maybe BvS will slip down to an 8/10 with time after my initial enthusiasm has died down. But for now I really do rate it as one of the year's best.