Civil War The Civil War "ANYTHING GOES" Thread - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK - NO SPOILER TAGS REQ.! - Part 2

[JtheDreamer]

I thought it was interesting that Zemo murdered them all. It was as though it was determined to stick to its premise and not introduce a new threat in the third act that would force an alliance between Stark & Cap.

Well it sort of did though. The alliance was temporary forged after Stark saw the other Avengers on The Raft. Obviously that alliance went away when he saw the video.

 

[Mjölnir]

Well it sort of did though. The alliance was temporary forged after Stark saw the other Avengers on The Raft. Obviously that alliance went away when he saw the video.

But it wasn't an alliance that lasted into the final conflict so it's pretty much playing out the opposite story to what he's saying. They didn't fight and then resolve their differences to fight a common enemy. They thought they were doing that only to have that dream crushed and everything made even worse between them. Not only are they now separated by ideologies around being a hero, they have a very personal conflict as well.

 

[Endeavor]

Hey, if Stark had that batch the Winter Soldier stole who's to say there wasn't more of the stuff?
We could still get Red Guardian or other SS attempts.
I'm glad those hydra ones got offed though. Cap and Bucky were enough for one movie.

 

[JtheDreamer]

But it wasn't an alliance that lasted into the final conflict so it's pretty much playing out the opposite story to what he's saying. They didn't fight and then resolve their differences to fight a common enemy. They thought they were doing that only to have that dream crushed and everything made even worse between them. Not only are they now separated by ideologies around being a hero, they have a very personal conflict as well.

Actually wait. I forgot about the moment Friday showed Stark the blackmail of Bucky. That had more to do with the alliance than what he saw on The Raft.

 

[Nathan]

Digesting it all, I think Zemo might be one of my favorite villains. He's just so different from everyone we've had so far. You always had villains that wanted either world domination, the destruction of the world, or simply gain power and wealth. Zemo, he just wants to tear the Avengers apart. And not with any doomsday weapons, or by going after the Avengers and simply killing them. He left friendships and a team fractured, by letting them fight among themselves. And he was just a man with experience and patience.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Digesting it all, I think Zemo might be one of my favorite villains. He's just so different from everyone we've had so far. You always had villains that wanted either world domination, the destruction of the world, or simply gain power and wealth. Zemo, he just wants to tear the Avengers apart. And not with any doomsday weapons, or by going after the Avengers and simply killing them. He left friendships and a team fractured, by letting them fight among themselves. And he was just a man with experience and patience.

They all wanted to tear them apart. That's pretty much par for the course between Loki, Ultron, and Zemo. At some point the MCU is going to have to graduate past that or at least take a break from that angle.

The only thing different about Zemo is that (like you said), wasn't using any doomsday weapons - he merely made them think he was going to i.e. winter soldier army.

 

[Enriquespy]

The more I think about him, the more I like Zemo as a character. His menace is a subtle, refined one.

 

[Nathan]

I also like how he actually tried to do as little harm as necessary. Sure, he bombed the UN, but that whole chain of events could have been avoided, had the Russian Soldier told Zemo what he wanted to know. I think he even says how, if he didn't get the information he needed, he would have to use other tactics, tactics he didn't like and didn't give him any pleasure. Of course he didn't get the information, and the only other source alive with the information he needed was Bucky.

 

[Wylie Times]

I also like how he actually tried to do as little harm as necessary. Sure, he bombed the UN, but that whole chain of events could have been avoided, had the Russion Soldier told Zemo what he wanted to know. I think he even says how, if he didn't get the information he needed, he would have to use other tactics, tactics he didn't like and didn't give him any pleasure. Of course he didn't get the information, and the only other source alive with the information he needed was Bucky.

He didn't just "bomb the UN" he murdered T'Chaka.

 

[smsvmos]

I think this movie should have been called Captain Zemo: Screw You All. Zemo was the actual hero of this story.

 

[TeeKay]

They all wanted to tear them apart. That's pretty much par for the course between Loki, Ultron, and Zemo. At some point the MCU is going to have to graduate past that or at least take a break from that angle.

The only thing different about Zemo is that (like you said), wasn't using any doomsday weapons - he merely made them think he was going to i.e. winter soldier army.

Well you can't blame them. It's "divided they fall after all". Zemo actually won. He actually tore the Avengers apart.

 

[DN91]

He didn't just "bomb the UN" he murdered T'Chaka.

As well as a bunch of other UN delegates, I would assume.

 

[JC00]

They all wanted to tear them apart. That's pretty much par for the course between Loki, Ultron, and Zemo. At some point the MCU is going to have to graduate past that or at least take a break from that angle.

The only thing different about Zemo is that (like you said), wasn't using any doomsday weapons - he merely made them think he was going to i.e. winter soldier army.

Actually Zemo just wanted them to turn on each other. Loki wanted to rule earth and Ultron wanted to destroy it. Taking out the Avengers was just a hurdle for Loki and Ultron to get to their ultimate goal.Loki and Ultron never set out to have them turn on each other like Zemo did. Loki used the scepter to try to unleash the Hulk to kill the Avengers and actually Ultron really didn't even go after them. He was pretty much just making his moves to kill the human race and the Avengers were on his trail.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Actually Zemo just wanted them to turn on each other. Loki wanted to rule earth and Ultron wanted to destroy it. Taking out the Avengers was just a hurdle for Loki and Ultron to get to their ultimate goal.Loki and Ultron never set out to have them turn on each other like Zemo did. Loki used the scepter to try to unleash the Hulk to kill the Avengers and actually Ultron really didn't even go after them. He was pretty much just making his moves to kill the human race and the Avengers were on his trail.

Not true. Their plans evolved - specifically with Ultron who even mentioned that while he/QS can hurt them, but it's SW who can tear them apart from the inside. All three antagonists used the same formula to achieve whatever their end game was i.e. turn the Avengers on each other.

We've basically gotten three Avengers style movies now where they fight each other in some capacity.

 

[Enriquespy]

Ultron didn't tried to turn them into each other:

The twins weren't avengers, and Hulk rampage was a distraction, not an atempt to antagonize him with the other avengers, since they knew he was on Scarlet's spell.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Ultron didn't tried to turn them into each other:

The twins weren't avengers, and Hulk rampage was a distraction, not an atempt to antagonize him with the other avengers, since they knew he was on Scarlet's spell.

He did try to turn them on each other. That was part of the reason why he manipulated SW so she would in turn mess with their minds. This resulted in the big Hulk/Hulkbuster fight as well as the lab when Vision was being created. He literally utters the very words that "Stark's already go them turning on each other" when he invites SW and QS back to the castle in Sokovia where more Ultron bots were being built.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Actually Zemo just wanted them to turn on each other. Loki wanted to rule earth and Ultron wanted to destroy it. Taking out the Avengers was just a hurdle for Loki and Ultron to get to their ultimate goal.Loki and Ultron never set out to have them turn on each other like Zemo did. Loki used the scepter to try to unleash the Hulk to kill the Avengers and actually Ultron really didn't even go after them. He was pretty much just making his moves to kill the human race and the Avengers were on his trail.

Semantics boss.

Each guy used the formula of having them turn on each other - whether or not that was the official end game is moot. My point is that it's become a bit of a recycled theme in the large ensemble team ups.

 

[Enriquespy]

He did try to turn them on each other. That was part of the reason why he manipulated SW so she would in turn mess with their minds. This resulted in the big Hulk/Hulkbuster fighte as well as the lab when Vision was being created. He literally utters the very words that "Stark's already go them turning on each other" when he invites SW and QS back to the castle in Sokovia where more Ultron bots were being built.

You might be right, my memory is not at her best now.

 

[JtheDreamer]

You might be right, my memory is not at her best now.

Fast forward to the 2:12 mark.

[YT]hI9GyhX7yHM[/YT]

 

[JC00]

Not true. Their plans evolved - specifically with Ultron who even mentioned that while he/QS can hurt them, but it's SW who can tear them apart from the inside. All three antagonists used the same formula to achieve whatever their end game was i.e. turn the Avengers on each other.

We've basically gotten three Avengers style movies now where they fight each other in some capacity.

Again, Loki (ruling earth & getting the Space Stone to Thanos) and Ultron (killing the human race) had bigger goals. It was Zemo's only goal.

 

[Annuminas]

It will be fascinating to see how Infinity Wars comes to shape now.

The heroes of MCU are in 4 places right now: Team Iron Man, Team Cap on the run, Thor and Hulk in space, and Guardians in another part of space. Presumably Dr. Strange will factor in too.

Movie wise, we have Ragnorak, Spidey, GOTG 2, BP and Strange.

My theory:
IW part 1 deals mostly in space. Guardians and Thor and Hulk leading the way. Movie ends with Thanos identifying the need to take the battle to earth to get Vision's gem and one other gem yet to be found which brings us to...Ant-Man and the Wasp. I believe the final gem will be introduced in AM2, perhaps connected to the microverse?

IW2 then picks up with Thanos on earth to collect the final 2 gems. Avengers + Strange + Guardians team up for the win.

Something like this is my speculation.Thoughts?

 

[darrenbevan1]

Review here - happy to take questions having seen it last night

http://bit.ly/captainamerica-civilwar-review

 

[JtheDreamer]

Well you can't blame them. It's "divided they fall after all". Zemo actually won. He actually tore the Avengers apart.

It's a temporary win though. We already know they band together in Infinity Wars. That's why it doesn't carry as much weight as it should - not to mention again I really wish Steve had saved the letter for the next film.

 

[Wylie Times]

It's a temporary win though. We already know they band together in Infinity Wars. That's why it doesn't carry as much weight as it should - not to mention again I really wish Steve had saved the letter for the next film.

Them banding together during Infinity War doesn't mean the wounds will be healed or that anything will be forgiven.

 

[SuperSanchez]

It's a temporary win though. We already know they band together in Infinity Wars. That's why it doesn't carry as much weight as it should - not to mention again I really wish Steve had saved the letter for the next film.

I agree, after the movie I said to myself that I wish Marvel didn't release they're line up of movies because there were scenes in this movie where I though characters were gonna die but then realised "oh wait, they can't die, they're making a move of them in the next few years"