The Clinton Thread II - Part 2

[Sithborg]

They will never go away. Trump just shined a light on them by not partaking in the typical dogwhistles the GOP has tended to use. And the demographic continue to point to this group continuing to lose political sway, just because of how the country is shifting. So they will likely get louder as their political power dies away.

 

[Thundercrack85]

They will never go away. Trump just shined a light on them by not partaking in the typical dogwhistles the GOP has tended to use. And the demographic continue to point to this group continuing to lose political sway, just because of how the country is shifting. So they will likely get louder as their political power dies away.

Oh they will go away. The average Trump supporter is on the verge of getting social security.

 

[Sithborg]

There are young people who have taken up the cause. I mean the Alt Right wouldn't be such a hassle online if it wasn't a bunch of young, tech savy idiots.

 

[Thundercrack85]

There are young people who have taken up the cause. I mean the Alt Right wouldn't be such a hassle online if it wasn't a bunch of young, tech savy idiots.

A fringe minority. That's not going to replace fifty million angry old white men.

 

[The Overlord]

That's what I expect to happen. I would be willing to bet you money a lot of those Trump supporters are the same damn people you see protesting desegregation at colleges in the 1960's. These people are a lost cause.

We have hard data showing that half of Trump supporters are racist. Or as Hillary put it, deplorables. The other half are just your run in the mill conservatives, people pissed off with the system and anarchists.

http://qz.com/779709/hillary-clinto...ording-to-a-poll-conducted-earlier-this-year/

But in the mean time there is nothing that can be done to make these people more reasonable? If that is true, that is depressing, because these people will still around in 4 years and they still could be troublesome.

If improving economic conditions doesn't make them more reasonable, then what do you do, it is still 38% of the country, that is a minority, but still a sizable one.

 

[Thundercrack85]

But in the mean time there is nothing that can be done to make these people more reasonable? If that is true, that is depressing, because these people will still around in 4 years and they still could be troublesome.

If improving economic conditions doesn't make them more reasonable, then what do you do, it is still 38% of the country, that is a minority, but still a sizable one.

I mean, you can't argue with the facts. The economy is doing better than the Republicans claimed they could make it. Two-thirds of Trump supporters believe Obama is lying about his birth certificate and that he is a Muslim... among other things. They don't even deny that. They deny being racists, but studies (and attitudes) clearly show they are.

I don't really know what you can tell these people to sway them. I think this demographic always existed, in the past, they were just marginalized.

It's sort of like the myth that Hitler got into power just because of the to the economy. That was a factor. The bigger factor was that the Germans who supported Hitler were upset about the changes in their country / world and racist as hell.

Trumpians believe they are losing their country, and they kind of are. He is the great white hope.

Now please note that I consider Trumpians to be distinct from Republicans. There's plenty of overlap, but they're not synonymous.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Half the country is either blind, dumb or hateful enough to vote for Trump.

What this says about human nature and the limits of democracy is not very encouraging.

Sometimes I wonder if America should split up into zones and halt the spread of the infection.

But then those idiots would have nukes pointed at us and create a fascist theocratic and possibly genocidal nightmare behind their borders.

 

[Schlosser85]

Half the country is either blind, dumb or hateful enough to vote for Trump.

What this says about human nature and the limits of democracy is not very encouraging.

Sometimes I wonder if America should split up into zones and halt the spread of the infection.

But then those idiots would have nukes pointed at us and create a fascist theocratic and possibly genocidal nightmare behind their borders.

Gay people trapped in an evangelical dictatorship would probably be rounded up and murdered.

 

[Schlosser85]

I wouldn't have bright prospects for ethnic and religious minorities and poor and homeless people either.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Half the country is either blind, dumb or hateful enough to vote for Trump.

What this says about human nature and the limits of democracy is not very encouraging.

Sometimes I wonder if America should split up into zones and halt the spread of the infection.

But then those idiots would have nukes pointed at us and create a fascist theocratic and possibly genocidal nightmare behind their borders.

Well, technically a fourth. A little over half of America doesn't or can't vote in elections. Which is both encouraging and disappointing.

 

[BatLobster]

I've been thinking a lot about what the ramifications of these new developments may have on a Clinton presidency and how long we'd be marred in this scandal with Republicans salivating at a chance to have her impeached.

But honestly, even if she was impeached or had to step down, etc. (and this is all worst case scenario)...wouldn't most Americans still be way more comfortable with a Tim Kaine presidency over a Trump presidency?

Even as someone who has been pro-Hillary since the primaries, knowing that I now will be voting for someone under FBI investigation...it sucks, there's just no way around it. It's a crappy feeling. And it makes me wonder about what this does to the Bernie people that had finally started coming around to voting for her. It just sucks. If this were a normal election, it might be enough to make me reconsider my vote- not even because I suddenly believe Hillary truly is the monster she's portrayed as, but because of the political/constitutional baggage that the situation would bring. And it's annoying that ultimately, as much as people want to point the finger at Comey here (and it's hard to know what exactly is going on here without all the information), this is a self-inflicted wound. This is the type of baggage that we always knew was part of the Clinton package, it's just being spotlighted again at the most unfortunate of times. Comey may very well be out of line with the timing of this release, but at the end of the day this wouldn't even be a thing if Hillary had been playing things more up the middle with her e-mails from the start.

However, if you're someone that sees the danger of a Trump presidency I still feel like the only responsible thing to do in this situation is to vote against the only person who can keep the dangerous, unstable man-baby away from the most powerful seat of power in the world and the nuclear codes. Again, worst-case scenario the FBI does find some bombshell in the new emails and something they can prosecute on (still highly unlikely), Tim Kaine stepping into the presidency wouldn't be the worst outcome, given this sh**show of an election.

 

[SuperDan007]

I personally think that the actions of the FBI in intervening, 11 days before the election when people are voting, when they haven't even read the emails in question is remarkable. They have only seen that there were emails sent from Wiener's wife to Clinton's server.

The issue is, even though in the FBI's announcement there is absolutely nothing to suggest criminality or a smoking gun (how can there be considering they haven't looked at the contents of the emails), most voters would hear the words "Hilary Clinton", "FBI", "Emails" in the same sentence, and automatically make the leap that the investigation has reopened. I doubt it will have much effect on the outcome, considering the uphill battle Trump does face on current polling in critical swing states, but it's been a crazy election cycle, so who knows what will happen.

 

[The Overlord]

Maybe I have been too harsh on Clinton, but I think I would support her more if she voted more on principal and less on what is popular.

Yeah she is better then Trump, but how good is she if she voted for the Iraq War, for the Patriot Act, supports massive fracking, her husband's get tough on crime bills increased the prison population, she supported a lot of the Wall Street deregulation that led to the collapse of 2008 and is overly cozy with Wall Street firms.

Yeah this stuff isn't as bad as the stuff Trump says and plans to do, but this not good.

 

[Boom]

I'm honestly voting for Clinton just to keep Trump out of office.

Frankly, she could be elected president and then promptly impeached and I wouldn't really care all that much. I'd still rather take President Plain Toast Kaine over President Drumpf.

 

[The Overlord]

I'm honestly voting for Clinton just to keep Trump out of office.

Frankly, she could be elected president and the FBI could indict her and I wouldn't really care all that much. I'd still rather take President Plain Toast Kaine over President Drumpf.

I don't disagree with that logic, but I don't think we should treat her with kids gloves just because she is a better choice then Trump, she certainly has her own flaws that are worthy discussion. Yes she is better Trump, but if she wins, that argument becomes irrelevant within a week and she has to deliver.

I am hoping she delivers policies based on principals, rather then what is popular at the moment or what she thinks will get her ahead.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm honestly voting for Clinton just to keep Trump out of office.

Frankly, she could be elected president and the FBI could indict her and I wouldn't really care all that much. I'd still rather take President Plain Toast Kaine over President Drumpf.

This, I would hope, is the common sense conclusion that people who were thrown off by the latest developments are able to arrive at. I'm just hoping that the people who were somehow still "on the fence" as of Friday think it through and aren't swayed by a vague statement from the FBI.

It's still just as pressing now as it's been for the past year and a half to keep Trump out of the White House. That means getting out and voting. What I fear is the situation suppressing voter turnout, which works to Trump's advantage (or any Republican's advantage in a general election).

On the other hand, one would hope that the tightening in the polls we're seeing will be wake up to Dems and even Republican Never Trump-ers not to get complacent.

 

[Anita18]

IMO it's better for politicians to deliver policies based on information they're given (which can change over time), as well as principles. Hillary has shown she can do it. Everything the Trump campaign does is dependent on the short-term whims of his ego.

Governing by principles alone doesn't get stuff done. I wish more people would realize this. A Bernie Bro Fb friend just signed a petition asking for Hillary to step down and be replaced with Bernie due to the "reopened" FBI case and it's like, "Oh yeah, that'll really get things moving. Totally."

 

[Dark Raven]

FT endorsement: For all her weaknesses, Clinton is the best hope

https://www.ft.com/content/f61b93c8-9f5a-11e6-891e-abe238dee8e2

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Tim Kaine is a goofball but you gotta respect someone who helped the poor in Latin America during dangerous and oppressive dictatorships.

That's a true Christian and literally the opposite of someone like Donald Trump or Mike Pence.

I'd actually prefer Kaine serve as president than Hillary because I think he's noble and reasonable and he'd have better chances in 2020 than Hillary.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Kaine is doing an appearance in Arizona on Thursday and will speak nothing but Spanish the whole time.

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics...tim-kaine-to-conduct-arizona-rally-in-spanish

 

[Matt Mortem]

Hillary will be in AZ Wednesday. On the fence about whether or not I want to go. I'm vehemently anti-Trump, but I'm not so fired up for Hillary that I want to go to a rally. She's got my vote though.

 

[The Overlord]

IMO it's better for politicians to deliver policies based on information they're given (which can change over time), as well as principles. Hillary has shown she can do it. Everything the Trump campaign does is dependent on the short-term whims of his ego.

Governing by principles alone doesn't get stuff done. I wish more people would realize this. A Bernie Bro Fb friend just signed a petition asking for Hillary to step down and be replaced with Bernie due to the "reopened" FBI case and it's like, "Oh yeah, that'll really get things moving. Totally."

There is a balance between the two, principals and pragmatism, but even before Iraq War happened, I thought the case for it was BS. Was Clinton doing the best she could based on the information at the time or caving into pressure and making the more popular decision at the time? There is a huge difference. Now the Iraq war was ultimately Bush's fault and her lone vote would not have changed things, but stuff like this doesn't speak well for her judgment.


That Bernie Bro is just being silly, IMO. That is not how things work.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

I'm honestly voting for Clinton just to keep Trump out of office.

Frankly, she could be elected president and then promptly impeached and I wouldn't really care all that much. I'd still rather take President Plain Toast Kaine over President Drumpf.

The only reason I've decided to vote for Hillary is she has no room to screw up. She's going to be under intense pressure from Day 1 if she wins and I like that. No way in hell is 8 years guaranteed. She's already unpopular and not trusted even among her own base. She'll have to work hard to change that. The Democrats will have been in power for three terms which invites fatigue. The Republicans are going to be crawling up her ass with a microscope looking for any chance to slay her with another scandal so she better have all of her ducks in a row and be on a straight path. And she's going to have to put in the effort on progressive issues first and foremost because those voters are not going to show up in 2020 if her promises are swept under the rug and she doesn't at least fight for them. The high-powered surrogates that she has now won't save her ass in 2020 either, especially if they're disenchanted with her first term. She has her work cut out for her and if she's going to have a Republican Congress stonewalling her every which way she has to call these people out and argue her side constantly. Throw that bi-partisan crap out the window early and fight because you saw where trying to appeal to both sides got Obama. I'm sure the GOP isn't stupid enough to run another Trump to let her off the hook in 2020. Ok, I'm not sure of that but they can't get any lower than the idiot they're running now, maybe

On the flip side, if Trump gets in office I feel he'll be more likely to abuse power because he'll feel vindicated and enabled that his plethora of transgressions went ignored and his sh** rhetoric and constant lying got him where he is so why stop? That's the way he's wired. The GOP will roll over for him to hold onto their jobs and keep from getting "primaried". Trump loves to project his faults on others and I believe everything he says about Clinton (she's corrupt, a liar, etc) he knows is true about himself. If he were to get in office I have no doubt his first priority would be to protect his own interests. Working for the good of the American people would be a very distant second. I also question where his loyalties are and I feel the Paul Manafort situation was swept under the rug far too quickly and easily and wikileaks working on his behalf has me very suspicious. Lastly, laziness and cutting corners is a trait in Trump. He's very ignorant and I don't see him as the kind of person who's going to do the work to get a better understanding of any situation. He's just going to wing it like he always has.

 

[Legendver2]

Anyone see Kaine v Kasich 2020? Boy would that be a refreshingly normal election.

 

[Boom]

I like Kasich. Wouldn't mind seeing him run again.