The Clinton Thread II

[Marx]

Biden won't run for Pres. Al Gore will make his comeback.

I still Gore.

 

[Kelly]

No to Gore...wishy, washy, greezy....I don't trust him....

 

[DACrowe]

You'd think that after being in public service for over 30 years, almost 40 by the time Hillary would run, that it's time for a break, which is something that most people want, especially one that has been as bumpy as Hillary's.

Most people are not politicians who want to be president.

I mean she could retire. I just won't believe it until it's mid-2015 and she still says she's not running.

BTW correction: I was wrong about her age. She'd be the same age as Reagan was when elected and only three years younger than when McCain ran. Still there is precedence.

 

[DACrowe]

Biden doesn't say the right things to be a decoy. Cheney is the perfect example of a decoy in action. He pushes the administration's agenda with unchecked aggression but never stops towing the company line. Biden on the other hand, compares people to rapists and says racist things. That is when you go from being a decoy to being a distraction (like Sarah Palin was).

That's a bit far. Say what you will about Biden (I love the cheeky pol who has no filter), but he is far more intelligent, competent, experienced and all around respectable than Palin.

BTW Y'know how the right trashed the Dixie Chicks and severely hurt their careers because they said something bad about Bush overseas? I wonder if they'll be outraged that Palin attacked Obama and American policy in India tonight. Probably not.

 

[Kelly]

That's a bit far. Say what you will about Biden (I love the cheeky pol who has no filter), but he is far more intelligent, competent, experienced and all around respectable than Palin.

BTW Y'know how the right trashed the Dixie Chicks and severely hurt their careers because they said something bad about Bush overseas? I wonder if they'll be outraged that Palin attacked Obama and American policy in India tonight. Probably not.

I understand where you are coming from, and I would have to know what the hell she was doing in India.

I don't like when anyone trashes our President outside of our country.

BUT, as far as the Dixie Chicks....HAD they done that at the Houston Livestock Show in a concert, or hell even in a concert in San Francisco, California, I would stand behind them all the way.

She said what she said to get a rise, and some applause out of a crappy audience, and that IMO is chicken ****.... If you wouldn't say it in a concert here, then don't say it anywhere....

 

[Matt]

That's a bit far. Say what you will about Biden (I love the cheeky pol who has no filter), but he is far more intelligent, competent, experienced and all around respectable than Palin.

Absolutely. I love Biden. He simply has no filter. He says anything that pops into his head. It keeps him from being the "decoy," VP and turns him into the gaffe-prone VP. He's embarrassed the administration beyond belief due to this. I personally find the honesty from a politician to be refreshing, but I don't think Obama will want to spend another four years cleaning up Biden's messes.

I mean, Cheney was a lot of things, but when you consider that his role as VP was to be the decoy vice-president, he actually performed admirably. I actually theorize that Cheney disagreed with everything that the Bush administration did. None of the administration's policies were in line with Cheney's public views up to that point. He was one of the strongest advocates against going into Iraq the 90s, for example. Basically everything the administration did contradicted Cheney's actions in his 20 + years of public service leading up to that point. I think Cheney was simply loyal to the party and loyal to H.W. so he did what a good VP does, took the hits for his guy by creating this evil mastermind persona.

That's my Dick Cheney conspiracy theory.

BTW Y'know how the right trashed the Dixie Chicks and severely hurt their careers because they said something bad about Bush overseas? I wonder if they'll be outraged that Palin attacked Obama and American policy in India tonight. Probably not.

Palin is a classless shrew.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That's a bit far. Say what you will about Biden (I love the cheeky pol who has no filter), but he is far more intelligent, competent, experienced and all around respectable than Palin.

BTW Y'know how the right trashed the Dixie Chicks and severely hurt their careers because they said something bad about Bush overseas? I wonder if they'll be outraged that Palin attacked Obama and American policy in India tonight. Probably not.

Except most Americans already find Palin to be a classless *****. Our opinions of her really can't get any lower of her since they're already soooooo low. It's a bit different than the Dixie Chicks who weren't thought of so poorly before they made their tacky and classless statement.

 

[DACrowe]

Well Fox News rallied a media **** storm of outrage against the Dixie Chicks. I'll be holding my breathe in anticipation tomorrow to see them go after Palin for doing the same....

Oh wait, I want to live. Never mind.

 

[Kelly]

Radio went after the Dixie Chicks far more than Fox News....Radio crucified them.


They still aren't played on most Country Music Stations...and are not played at all on southern stations of any kind...

 

[hippie_hunter]

Well Fox News rallied a media **** storm of outrage against the Dixie Chicks. I'll be holding my breathe in anticipation tomorrow to see them go after Palin for doing the same....

Oh wait, I want to live. Never mind.

It's what Kel said, radio went after them waaaaay more than Fox News and again, Palin's image is already piss poor. People's opinions of the woman aren't going to change by her making some tacky and classless comments. If people were more along the lines of respecting her or at the very least apathetic about her, I think we'd see some outrage, at least by leftist media sources. Instead the media is like "Oh, it's Palin being Palin.....next." That isn't news, it's pretty much an everyday occurrence.

It's much different than the Dixie Chicks because a lot of people liked the Dixie Chicks and their classless, tacky, and childish comments came out of nowhere. Now dealing with the impact of that, that is news.

 

[Kelly]

What was she there for?????

Was this an interview, or a speech at a political function?

What was it?

I think some of the anger at the Dixie Chicks or any music artist, group whatever is that when we pay $100+ bucks for tickets to their concerts, we don't really give a **** what their political views are....just AS THEIR DOCUMENTARY WAS TITLED...."Shut Up And Sing"....

 

[hippie_hunter]

That's honestly why a lot of Hollywood celebrities political views annoy me. Along with acting like a bunch of faux-progressives because being liberal is trendy in Hollywood, they act like their views are the only ones that matter when in reality, I don't give a ****.

 

[DACrowe]

It's what Kel said, radio went after them waaaaay more than Fox News and again, Palin's image is already piss poor. People's opinions of the woman aren't going to change by her making some tacky and classless comments. If people were more along the lines of respecting her or at the very least apathetic about her, I think we'd see some outrage, at least by leftist media sources. Instead the media is like "Oh, it's Palin being Palin.....next." That isn't news, it's pretty much an everyday occurrence.

It's much different than the Dixie Chicks because a lot of people liked the Dixie Chicks and their classless, tacky, and childish comments came out of nowhere. Now dealing with the impact of that, that is news.

If you watch the first ten minutes of their documentary (the best part) it was an entire movement in right wing media. Radio on downward. I just want to see Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity to show a 10th of the fiery outrage they reserved for the Dixie Chicks for a fellow Fox News employee.

It's not happening, because there's a double standard. That was my point.

BTW I'm far more upset about how supposed national leaders (as Palin poses as one in India) talk about this country abroad than what some entertainer does. Do I care if Toby Keith plays in Germany that sticking a boot up their ass is the American way? Not really. Do I care that Green Day sings Bush-bashing American Idiot in London? No, but I do like the song. Do I find it repugnant when Jimmy Carter tried to get the UN to intervene in the Gulf War and publicly went outside this country against George H.W. Bush? Freaking yes.

Palin has not the importance of Carter, but her going after American foreign policy on foreign soil is still repugnant, in my opinion.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

What was she there for?????

Was this an interview, or a speech at a political function?

What was it?

I think some of the anger at the Dixie Chicks or any music artist, group whatever is that when we pay $100+ bucks for tickets to their concerts, we don't really give a **** what their political views are....just AS THEIR DOCUMENTARY WAS TITLED...."Shut Up And Sing"....

Maybe the Dixie Chicks acted inappropriately by voicing their political beliefs at a concert. On the other hand certain elements of the public and the rightwing media overreacted to such a vitriolic extent (inciting hatred against them, blacklisting them from radio and throwing their CDs and magazines on to bonfires) that whatever the Chicks' original sin was it is overshadowed by the crazy frenzy that followed. If Toby Keith said at a concert tomorrow that he didn't support the campaign in Libya or had some other critique of Obama (which I'm sure I remember him having in the past) I doubt you would see a mass uproar like what happened in '03.

 

[hippie_hunter]

If you watch the first ten minutes of their documentary (the best part) it was an entire movement in right wing media. Radio on downward.

Yes, Fox News did go after them, but radio was still the worst.

I just want to see Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity to show a 10th of the fiery outrage they reserved for the Dixie Chicks for a fellow Fox News employee.

Ummmm....why? It's not news and why would they go after someone who shares their ideological viewpoint?

It's not happening, because there's a double standard. That was my point.

Almost all of the media has a double standard. If the Dixie Chicks did what they did again you'd see Fox News and talk radio go after them while Rachel Maddow on MSNBC would be praising them. Or again bringing up Maddow, how she was saying how MSNBC should let Olbermann back on the air after they "punished" him for campaign contributions all while attacking Fox News at the same time.

BTW I'm far more upset about how supposed national leaders (as Palin poses as one in India) talk about this country abroad than what some entertainer does. Do I care if Toby Keith plays in Germany that sticking a boot up their ass is the American way? Not really. Do I care that Green Day sings Bush-bashing American Idiot in London? No, but I do like the song. Do I find it repugnant when Jimmy Carter tried to get the UN to intervene in the Gulf War and publicly went outside this country against George H.W. Bush? Freaking yes.

Palin has not the importance of Carter, but her going after American foreign policy on foreign soil is still repugnant, in my opinion.

What Palin did sure was repugnant, I completely agree with you there. But it doesn't bother me as much since I already find her to be a repugnant woman already. That's the point I'm trying to get across in which we aren't going to see backlash because we expect Palin to do these things. It's not news. And in a world driven by ratings, why cover on things that aren't news.

Now if Barack Obama did something like Palin or the Dixie Chicks, I'd be a bit more bothered because unlike Palin, even though I disagree with the man politically, I still find him to be a decent guy. Unlike Palin, I'd expect him to be better than that.

On issues such as this, it really comes down to how much respect the public has for such people.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Maybe the Dixie Chicks acted inappropriately by voicing their political beliefs at a concert. On the other hand certain elements of the public and the rightwing media overreacted to such a vitriolic extent (inciting hatred against them, blacklisting them from radio and throwing their CDs and magazines on to bonfires) that whatever the Chicks' original sin was it is overshadowed by the crazy frenzy that followed.

I think what hurt the Dixie Chicks so much was:

1. What they said was in London, outside of the United States. Bet they wouldn't have said something like that in the United States, where they know they would have been booed as opposed to being more well received for them in the United Kingdom. Probably because people who listen to country music in the United States are a very conservative bunch.

2. What they said was extremely childish. It's one thing to voice opposition to the Iraq War, it's another to say that you're ashamed that the President is from the same state as you. I hated Carl Paladino, but I'm not ashamed that he's from New York where I live. That is something that I expect a 12 year old child to say, not a woman in her 30s.

3. The way they handled it. They did a really poor job of handling the situtation, first they apologize, and then when Bush bashing became popular, they stand by those comments and say they're proud of them.

If Toby Keith said at a concert tomorrow that he didn't support the campaign in Libya or had some other critique of Obama (which I'm sure I remember him having in the past) I doubt you would see a mass uproar like what happened in '03.

It would come down to how he said it. If he said it in the exact same manner as the Dixie Chicks, he most likely would receive a lot off backlash.

 

[chaseter]

Here's the bottom line: If you are an actor, singer, whatever...you want the most fans you can possibly have and you want them to enjoy your work. Interjecting your religious, political, or societal views into your work will alienate some people. It was a bad career move and as you can see, they are pretty much gonezo. Their fan base was in the South and they alienated a lot of Southern Republicans. It was stupid on her part. She can have an opinion, but don't be pissy when your fans don't agree with you.

Just imagine if the Jonas Brothers came out and said they love teenage women, getting drunk, and having gang bangs.

 

[DACrowe]

Ummmm....why? It's not news and why would they go after someone who shares their ideological viewpoint?

Because the Dixie Chicks thing wasn't news. Radio, Fox and other conservative media made it news. Their refusal to do so here shows that it was never about genuine outrage at the Dixie Chicks, but a political theatre (to paraphrase Jon Stewart) and distraction from the issues of the war. It was to rally the base and not about American exceptionalism. If they don't criticize someone who shares their viewpoint with higher international stature than those they tried to destroy for doing the same thing to a Republican president, then they are nothing more than partisan shills and propagandist hypocrites.

That is why I want to seem them prove that assertion wrong. if they don't, they have no credibility.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Because the Dixie Chicks thing wasn't news. Radio, Fox and other conservative media made it news. Their refusal to do so here shows that it was never about genuine outrage at the Dixie Chicks, but a political theatre (to paraphrase Jon Stewart) and distraction from the issues of the war. It was to rally the base and not about American exceptionalism. If they don't criticize someone who shares their viewpoint with higher international stature than those they tried to destroy for doing the same thing to a Republican president, then they are nothing more than partisan shills and propagandist hypocrites.

That is why I want to seem them prove that assertion wrong. if they don't, they have no credibility.

To be fair, they never had credibility in your eyes to begin with. And yes, there was a genuine outrage considering how their albums dropped off the charts and they still really haven't recovered from it.

 

[chaseter]

Because the Dixie Chicks thing wasn't news. Radio, Fox and other conservative media made it news. Their refusal to do so here shows that it was never about genuine outrage at the Dixie Chicks, but a political theatre (to paraphrase Jon Stewart) and distraction from the issues of the war. It was to rally the base and not about American exceptionalism. If they don't criticize someone who shares their viewpoint with higher international stature than those they tried to destroy for doing the same thing to a Republican president, then they are nothing more than partisan shills and propagandist hypocrites.

That is why I want to seem them prove that assertion wrong. if they don't, they have no credibility.

A squirrel water skiing is news.

 

[Franklin Richards]

What? Taking the Long Way was the follow up album. The album debuted at #1 on the Billboard 200. It sold over 2 million copies in the U.S., being certified 2x platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America as of July 11, 2007. It won 5 Grammy Awards, including Album of the Year, Record of the Year and Song of the Year in February 2007.


Their doing just fine. Courtyard Hounds are selling nicely. Right now Natalie Maines has a rising song on Itunes covering The Beach Boys... God Only Knows... and their next studio album will prolly do just fine.


Will they be invited to sing at the Super Bowl or the Daytona 500? No but **** them.

 

[Kelly]

Concerts is where the money is....not the CD's. Artists today make very little from the CD's...they make the money from the concerts.

But, with all of that said, I bought their next CD and loved it....I've been listening to some of the sisters music, and its fantastic....so they didn't lose me as a fan.....I don't really give a **** what they said about Bush, I just don't want them filling up a concert with political **** like Barbara Streisand does....I don't pay money to listen to them bloviate about politics, I pay money to hear them sing.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I doubt Martie and Emily will let Natalie do that any more. To be honest I'm a little worried about the trio what with the Courtyard Hounds being so active in Austin and Natalie making a single.

I'm prolly being paranoid but I hope there isn't any friction. They were so unified during all that stuff, it has to wear on you.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Just imagine if the Jonas Brothers came out and said they love teenage women, getting drunk, and having gang bangs.

The Grammy committee would immediately move them into the Rap category, and their album sales would triple.

 

[Kelly]

Maybe the Dixie Chicks acted inappropriately by voicing their political beliefs at a concert. On the other hand certain elements of the public and the rightwing media overreacted to such a vitriolic extent (inciting hatred against them, blacklisting them from radio and throwing their CDs and magazines on to bonfires) that whatever the Chicks' original sin was it is overshadowed by the crazy frenzy that followed. If Toby Keith said at a concert tomorrow that he didn't support the campaign in Libya or had some other critique of Obama (which I'm sure I remember him having in the past) I doubt you would see a mass uproar like what happened in '03.

I agree with you, but of course there wouldn't be an outrage if Keith critiqued Obama....I believe polls have shown that most who listen to country are more of the conservative tilt....so that isn't surprising. I'm sure Keith has had alot to say about Obama, but "where" has he said it...

As I said before, more power to them if they want to dog the President here in the US, just so their entire concert isn't built around it.