The Clinton Thread

[amazingfantasy15]

Or they could just not vote at all. How would that help Obama?

Not voting or voting for McCain wll result in the same thing, really no difference. It's still a bunch of votes Obama won't receive because of a temper tanturm.

 

[Matt]

Not voting or voting for McCain wll result in the same thing, really no difference. It's still a bunch of votes Obama won't receive because of a temper tanturm.

You act as if Obama is somehow entitled to these votes. It is like the 2000 argument, maybe its not Nader's fault Gore lost, but Gore's fault. Same with this election. If Obama loses, maybe its not Clinton's fault, but Obama's.

 

[Marx]

You act as if Obama is somehow entitled to these votes. It is like the 2000 argument, maybe its not Nader's fault Gore lost, but Gore's fault. Same with this election. If Obama loses, maybe its not Clinton's fault, but Obama's.

I've grown tired of this whole mentality that somehow if Obama loses it's all Clinton's fault. IF Obama loses, it will be by his own doing.




(Except in the case of the 2000 campaign. I do not blame Gore, I blame Nader and the Republican blockade that was installed in Florida.)

 

[kainedamo]

I've grown tired of this whole mentality that somehow if Obama loses it's all Clinton's fault. IF Obama loses, it will be by his own doing.

Unless Hillary still tries to go into Augest, then she would effectively be sabotaging Obama's campaign.

 

[Excel]

If Hillary continues to stall and her supporters defect to McCain because of it, even though he's a lot more different than Hillary than Obama is...logic says Hillary therefore played a role in her supporters not switching to Obama. That would mean they had a personal detest for Obama, and that is where Hillary and all her **** talking comes in.

 

[Matt]

If Hillary continues to stall and her supporters defect to McCain because of it, even though he's a lot more different than Hillary than Obama is...logic says Hillary therefore played a role in her supporters not switching to Obama. That would mean they had a personal detest for Obama, and that is where Hillary and all her **** talking comes in.

But Obama has ways to remedey this. He can try talking to those voters instead of talking down to them behind their backs (bitter-gate, anyone?). He can bring Clinton onto his ticket. He can stop ignoring the blue collar vote. There are plenty of ways to remedey the situation. The buck stops with Obama, not Clinton.

 

[Addendum]

The only thing about bitter-gate is that it's perfectly reasonable to be bitter when you've lost your job.

It's Obama's choice whom would be the best choice for running mate. That person may be Hillary or it could be someone else.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

You act as if Obama is somehow entitled to these votes. It is like the 2000 argument, maybe its not Nader's fault Gore lost, but Gore's fault. Same with this election. If Obama loses, maybe its not Clinton's fault, but Obama's.

I'm not saying Obama's entitled to those votes, he's not. What I'm saying is if all the Hillary supporters just decide to "take their bat and ball and go home" if Hillary is not on the ticket as either Pres or VP. If that's the only reason they'll either vote McCain or not vote at all, that's ridiculous. If they have a genuine reason why they vote for McCain or not vote that's cool, but if it's solely because Hillary lost, then that's just dumb.

If Hillary was the nominee even with Obama as VP, I would either not vote or "throw my vote away" by going third, fourth or fifth party. My reasons are I don't like Hillary, she comes off as arrogant and/or pandering, very much a cold and calculating pure politician. I know every politician is like that, but in Hillary's case she can't hide it like others. Plus I don't want another legacy candidate like Bush was/is. I don't want the second coming of Bill Clinton.

I want some new blood in the White House. That said, I'm still not totally sold on Obama, I hope whoever he picks as his VP is an experienced politician because in my mind that's the only thing he really missing, a little more experience.

 

[Marx]

I'm not saying Obama's entitled to those votes, he's not. What I'm saying is if all the Hillary supporters just decide to "take their bat and ball and go home" if Hillary is not on the ticket as either Pres or VP. If that's the only reason they'll either vote McCain or not vote at all, that's ridiculous. If they have a genuine reason why they vote for McCain or not vote that's cool, but if it's solely because Hillary lost, then that's just dumb.

That would be their right to do so.

If Hillary was the nominee even with Obama as VP, I would either not vote or "throw my vote away" by going third, fourth or fifth party. My reasons are I don't like Hillary, she comes off as arrogant and/or pandering, very much a cold and calculating pure politician. I know every politician is like that, but in Hillary's case she can't hide it like others. Plus I don't want another legacy candidate like Bush was/is. I don't want the second coming of Bill Clinton.

So you're essentially saying that you would do the exact same thing that you are condemning the Clinton supporters of had you not gotten your way. Interesting. I somehow doubt that a Clinton supporter saying that they "think Obama is arrogant and that's why they're not voting for him" would be a good enough reason to accept by other people. They would be blasted for considering that a valid genuine reason. But if the shoe were on the other foot then...well, of course that reasoning would be acceptable.

I want some new blood in the White House. That said, I'm still not totally sold on Obama, I hope whoever he picks as his VP is an experienced politician because in my mind that's the only thing he really missing, a little more experience.

We'll see, won't we.

 

[Marx]

But Obama has ways to remedey this. He can try talking to those voters instead of talking down to them behind their backs (bitter-gate, anyone?). He can bring Clinton onto his ticket. He can stop ignoring the blue collar vote. There are plenty of ways to remedey the situation. The buck stops with Obama, not Clinton.

Well said Matt.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

That would be their right to do so.

So you're essentially saying that you would do the exact same thing that you are condemning the Clinton supporters of had you not gotten your way. Interesting. I somehow doubt that a Clinton supporter saying that they "think Obama is arrogant and that's why they're not voting for him" would be a good enough reason to accept by other people. They would be blasted for considering that a valid genuine reason. But if the shoe were on the other foot then...well, of course that reasoning would be acceptable. .

Yeah one of my reasons was/is somewhat petty and completely based on her personality, it's how I've felt since her first run for the Senate, when she instantly became a New Yorker. Obama getting the nomination is not me "getting my way" either, I like him as the nominee because he's not the status quo and has a good personality that doesn't pander and adopt a fake accent in every town he visits as tranparently as Hillary does. The main reason I "threw my vote away" in the past two elections was because I found both candidates lacking in some way, that's what it is with Hillary, I see her lacking, I'll probably throw my vote away again if she's on the ticket because to me it will come off as blatant pandering by Obama which is something I hate in politics.

 

[Knives]

The buck may stop with Obama but it starts with Clinton. How much longer can she go on with this "thinking about her future" ******** before she really begins to look absurd. She MUST endorse him this week or run the risk of alienating herself completely from the party. One of her strongest supporters, Charles Rangel, is now even saying she needs to endorse him quickly and get behind him. She MUST do this or she destroys her legacy by looking so entitled, its to the point where she looks like she is purposely trying to damage the nominee. She has said she wants to unify the party. Well, the next move is on her. Especially if she wants any hope of being picked as a VP. She has to endorse him this week and cut the crap.

 

[Excel]

But Obama has ways to remedey this. He can try talking to those voters instead of talking down to them behind their backs (bitter-gate, anyone?). He can bring Clinton onto his ticket. He can stop ignoring the blue collar vote. There are plenty of ways to remedey the situation. The buck stops with Obama, not Clinton.

None of those remedeys are going to be half as effective as an immeadiete Clinton concession.

 

[Marx]

Yeah one of my reasons was/is somewhat petty and completely based on her personality, it's how I've felt since her first run for the Senate, when she instantly became a New Yorker. Obama getting the nomination is not me "getting my way" either, I like him as the nominee because he's not the status quo and has a good personality that doesn't pander and adopt a fake accent in every town he visits as tranparently as Hillary does. The main reason I "threw my vote away" in the past two elections was because I found both candidates lacking in some way, that's what it is with Hillary, I see her lacking, I'll probably throw my vote away again if she's on the ticket because to me it will come off as blatant pandering by Obama which is something I hate in politics.

Pandering is a part of politics. And Obama has already done his fair share of it. The point is that Obama may have no other choice than to put Clinton on the ticket in order to unify the party.

None of those remedeys are going to be half as effective as an immeadiete Clinton concession.

A Clinton concession is not going to automatically throw all of her supporters behind Obama. I think to suggest that it would is ridiculous.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But Obama has ways to remedey this. He can try talking to those voters instead of talking down to them behind their backs (bitter-gate, anyone?). He can bring Clinton onto his ticket. He can stop ignoring the blue collar vote. There are plenty of ways to remedey the situation. The buck stops with Obama, not Clinton.

It's become worse for Obama right now because it looks like a good chunk of Clinton's women supporters are going to McCain instead of Obama.

To get that group, putting Clinton on the ticket is a good way to remedy it. But it could really turn off independents who Obama currently has an advantage with and people who see Obama's message of change getting hurt by having someone from the old guard.

 

[Marx]

It's become worse for Obama right now because it looks like a good chunk of Clinton's women supporters are going to McCain instead of Obama.

To get that group, putting Clinton on the ticket is a good way to remedy it. But it could really turn off independents who Obama currently has an advantage with and people who see Obama's message of change getting hurt by having someone from the old guard.

His endorsements come from alot of the old guard...or the establishment. The Kennedy's, Jimmy Carter...etc.

 

[Matt]

None of those remedeys are going to be half as effective as an immeadiete Clinton concession.

That is an absolutely absurd claim and I challenge you to find any way to back up that Clinton being forced out of the election will do more to bring her voters to Obama than Clinton being added to his ticket.

 

[hippie_hunter]

His endorsements come from alot of the old guard...or the establishment. The Kennedy's, Jimmy Carter...etc.

But the Kennedys and Carter have a reputation of being more idealistic (naively IMO) than say the Clintons.

 

[Excel]

That is an absolutely absurd claim and I challenge you to find any way to back up that Clinton being forced out of the election will do more to bring her voters to Obama than Clinton being added to his ticket.

How hard is it to understand: Hillary LOST. Have some of you figured that out yet? Its all over. Nobodys forcing anybody out; we just have a winner therefore the person who did not win, lost. But as long as Hillary keeps up this charade that shes still in it despite having already...lost...her supporters will buy into it. As long as she keeps whining that she wants the VP, Obama will have no choice but to do so or else risk seriously pissing off all of her supporters. Had she just dropped out and been mum on vp, it would have only been a matter of time till Obama won them over.

 

[Matt]

No, she hasn't lost as super delegate votes are not official until Denver. They can flip flop back and forth as much as they'd like until then. And because neither candidate has won the needed votes through regular contests she has every right to go to Denver and make her case to the super delegates. Unless of course Dean, Pelosi, and Reid do in fact that the rules midway through (as it appears they have). Something you were against, in Michigan, curiously enough, Excel.

 

[kainedamo]

Wasn't there news that the party leaders want the supes to announce who they are backing by Friday?

 

[Matt]

And how exactly does that determine a winner? The winner is not official until Denver when super delegates vote as no one has reached the magic number without them.

 

[Excel]

No, she hasn't lost as super delegate votes are not official until Denver. They can flip flop back and forth as much as they'd like until then. And because neither candidate has won the needed votes through regular contests she has every right to go to Denver and make her case to the super delegates. Unless of course Dean, Pelosi, and Reid do in fact that the rules midway through (as it appears they have). Something you were against, in Michigan, curiously enough, Excel.

I dont want anybody to kick her out. Hillarys not a fool; she knows and her campaign knows that Obamas crossed 2,118 by - well well well....CC news is saying she is gonna drop out on Friday.

Good.

 

[Excel]

Yes, everywhere is saying it. Hillary quitting on Friday.

 

[Matt]

I dont want anybody to kick her out. Hillarys not a fool; she knows and her campaign knows that Obamas crossed 2,118 by - well well well....CC news is saying she is gonna drop out on Friday.

Good.

Hmm, either Obama offered her something and the announcement could be far bigger than we expect or she is going to suspend her campaign but not drop out.