The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Batman Vs. Bane Spoilers

[Pwz414]

It hurt me deeply to see an over confident Bruce get destroyed like that.
Who do you think would win if Bane came up against The Dark Knight Batman? For the sake of argument I'm specifically citing Batman when he's introduced to "TDK". Before all the injuries he took against The Joker, Dent, and the Mob.

I personally think Batman would win relatively unharmed.

Here are some signs of just how off Batman is at the beginning of TDKR:

The Rookie cop is able to shoot the EMP gun without Batman knowing he's there.

The punch to the helmet of Bane's thug looks very weak... Just hard enough to do the job.

He looks out of breath and slow during the roof fight. Not to mention he's surprised by the shooters.

Catwoman sneaks away from him.

And the most powerful indicator to me is how badly he loses to Bane in the first fight, but is able to scrounge a victory in the second fight while only 4 months off his death bed.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I think Bane would win. The only reason Batman got the upper hand at the city hall fight was because he disabled Bane's mask. Bane was created to be superior to Batman. I think would win the first fight every time, the point is for Batman to learn his weaknesses and turn it against him. So in the regard I'm torn. Even if Batman lost in the fight, as he does in both the movie and the comic, he rises again to defeat him after learning his disadvantages.

 

[Pwz414]

I think Bane would win. The only reason Batman got the upper hand at the city hall fight was because he disabled Bane's mask. Bane was created to be superior to Batman. I think would win the first fight every time, the point is for Batman to learn his weaknesses and turn it against him. So in the regard I'm torn. Even if Batman lost in the fight, as he does in both the movie and the comic, he rises again to defeat him after learning his disadvantages.

Every scenario has pitted a weakened Batman against Bane in the initial encounter. I know Bane is formidable, but I still don’t see him beating TDK Batman. I think Batman would adjust mid fight to Bane’s power. I know Bane claims to own the shadows but Bruce is Ra’s’ greatest student. If these two met I really see Batman being surprised by Bane’s abilities, but not overcome by them.

 

[ThePhantasm]

It is difficult to say. As long as Bane's mask is intact, Batman tends to have a tough time against him. Furthermore, Bane's mask can take a lot of punishment... Bats hit it multiple times in their first fight, but to no avail (it wasn't until he hooked one of his arm blades on it that it disconnected).

Furthermore, I don't think Bane is so stupid as to simply go up against Bats in his prime. Bane likes to target Batman when he is weak, exhausted, or out of shape. If Bane attacked Bats during TDK, it would be at the end, after Batman has already faced the Joker and Harvey. Bane would have been watching from a distance, and then he would strike after Batman was worn down.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Depends on who has the initiative. Bane isn't only a dangerous fighter, he's also a great strategist, who understands, that 1 on 1 is way too fair fight. He uses allies a lot. And he lost because of his overconfidence. Just like Batman the first time.

And remember, Bane almost won. Because he had an ace in the hole. Only Selina saved Batman from death. So, count two losses against Bane.

 

[Pwz414]

It is difficult to say. As long as Bane's mask is intact, Batman tends to have a tough time against him. Furthermore, Bane's mask can take a lot of punishment... Bats hit it multiple times in their first fight, but to no avail (it wasn't until he hooked one of his arm blades on it that it disconnected).

Furthermore, I don't think Bane is so stupid as to simply go up against Bats in his prime. Bane likes to target Batman when he is weak, exhausted, or out of shape. If Bane attacked Bats during TDK, it would be at the end, after Batman has already faced the Joker and Harvey. Bane would have been watching from a distance, and then he would strike after Batman was worn down.

"For the sake of argument I'm specifically citing Batman when he's introduced to "TDK". Before all the injuries he took against The Joker, Dent, and the Mob."

So Bane is this villain who always manages to catch Batman off guard. In every introduction Batman is weakened significantly, in the most recent case, barely existent.

A few months before Batman's introduction in “TDK” he did a one arm curl of Ra's entire body weight while supporting both their weight with the other arm. He then went on to defeat Ra's al Ghul himself, and a few weeks later he was taking on the mob single handedly and winning. I point to early in TDK as Batman's prime. Later in the movie he takes out two SWAT teams after Rachel's death and being stabbed in the stomach by The Joker. Could Bane have done that?

Had Bane been sought out by Bantam at that time, as he was in TDKR, Bane would have been defeated in their first encounter; again, with relatively little damage to Batman.

 

[OutOfBoose]

A few months before Batman's introduction in “TDK” he did a one arm curl of Ra's entire body weight while supporting both their weight with the other arm. He then went on to defeat Ra's al Ghul himself, and a few weeks later he was taking on the mob single handedly and winning. I point to early in TDK as Batman's prime. Later in the movie he takes out two SWAT teams after Rachel's death and being stabbed in the stomach by The Joker. Could Bane have done that?

We don't know. Bane is trained as good as Bruce. His dark mirror. He choked a guy to death with one hand in a couple of seconds. He lifted Batman over his head and smashed him against his knee. We don't know what shape Bane had at the time of Batman's prime. And most likely, he would ambush Batman when he isn't prepared to face him.

 

[Victarion]

Well, in the time between BB and TDK and in the beginning of TDK, I felt that Batman had been run ragged in his war against the mob. So it would actually be closer to Knightfall, since you'd have Bane facing off against a physically exhausted Batman.

 

[ThePhantasm]

A few months before Batman's introduction in “TDK” he did a one arm curl of Ra's entire body weight while supporting both their weight with the other arm. He then went on to defeat Ra's al Ghul himself, and a few weeks later he was taking on the mob single handedly and winning. I point to early in TDK as Batman's prime. Later in the movie he takes out two SWAT teams after Rachel's death and being stabbed in the stomach by The Joker. Could Bane have done that?

None of this proves anything. Bruce was strong... so is Bane. Ras had Bruce defeated until Gordon blew the tracks, and then Ras was only defeated by the fact that he had no escape route. Batman did not technically beat Ras in one-on-one combat.

Bruce and Bane were both trained by the LOS, both are immensely strong, and both driven by powerful beliefs. To say that one necessarily would win over the other seems tenuous at best.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Well, in the time between BB and TDK and in the beginning of TDK, I felt that Batman had been run ragged in his war against the mob. So it would actually be closer to Knightfall, since you'd have Bane facing off against a physically exhausted Batman.

Exactly. Nolan specially showed how hard every night for Batman is. He isn't invincible in TDK times. In 6 months of fighting against crime, he was covered in scars and bruises. And tired.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I think the case will always be the same, as it was in the comics. And that's that unless Batman's given a handicap, Bane will lose.

In the comics, Bane wore him down. He tossed every villain his way. Bruce was exhausted, depleted, and doubting himself. There were moments when he welcomed death, alot like he did in TDKR.

In this movie, there's a handicap. Instead of Bane wearing him down, it was a mix of Bruce being rusty, over the hill, and injured.

Batman, in his prime, would have defeated Bane. Wouldn't have been easy, but he wouldn't have been as brutally beaten.

 

[ares834]

Gotta go with Bane. Between Alfred and Nolan's comments it's clear he is meant to be a physical monster. Yes, it will be closer than their first fight, but in the end Bane will win IMO.

Interestingly enough, Batman appears physically stronger here than in any of the other movies. With the brace he is able to shatter bricks with a kick and in his second fight with Bane his kick doesn't merely knock Bane back but lifts him in the air.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Hard to say, given that Batman didn't really kick all that much in BB or TDK. Maybe he has always been that strong.

 

[ares834]

Perhaps. I just never got the feeling he was *that* strong, although him lifting Ra's with one arm in BB was quite impressive.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Also, in the interrogation scene he was able to lift Joker in the air and also flip the Joker onto the table.

 

[Pwz414]

In BB it was my understanding that Ra’s was played perfectly. Bruce kept him on the train until the last second which would necessitate drawing out the fight. His plan was never to stop the train, but to keep Ra’s and the machine on it. Had Ra’s said, “You’re right, Bruce, this is not the way, and you’ve proven your effectiveness to me”, perhaps Bruce may have saved him. But the plan, as I interpreted it, was always to wait until the last second.

“You never did learn to mind your surroundings” tells me Bruce was orchestrating that moment.

As for Bruce being run down at the beginning of TDK, maybe, but we know that in even worse condition that Batman could take out two SWAT teams. Not good with dogs though, I know…

 

[ThePhantasm]

In BB it was my understanding that Ra’s was played perfectly. Bruce kept him on the train until the last second which would necessitate drawing out the fight. His plan was never to stop the train, but to keep Ra’s and the machine on it. Had Ra’s said, “You’re right, Bruce, this is not the way, and you’ve proven your effectiveness to me”, perhaps Bruce may have saved him. But the plan, as I interpreted it, was always to wait until the last second.

Watch it again. Bruce goes to the controls to stop the train and Ras destroys the control panel with his broken sword. Ras then taunts Bruce saying "You are just a man in a cape and that is why you can't stop this train." Gordon was a backup plan.

"To keep Ras and the machine on it" makes no sense. Why wouldn't they remain on it? Ras entire plan hinged on that very fact.

 

[Syncope]

Batman defeated Bane when he was well past his prime in Rises, so you have to assume that TDK Batman would own him too. Batman completely underestimated Bane in their first fight scene, and he was fresh off the back of nailing Talia and being out of the crime-fighting game for 8 years, so he was a bit rusty.

I'm going for TDK Batman to take this one.

 

[Pwz414]

Perhaps. I just never got the feeling he was *that* strong, although him lifting Ra's with one arm in BB was quite impressive.

I'm not arguing that he was ever as strong as Bane, but a man who can one arm curl 220 + pounds is going to damage a body when he attacks it, any body, Bane's included. So let's say they fight and Bane can't feel a thing, he's still taking damage, and Bane did everything he could to end Batman in the limited time he had just after the mask broke, and he couldn't. PERIOD! Give him three minutes, maybe, but is TDK Batman just going to stand there, no. He's going to punch the **** out of Bane... The mask would break, and let's be honest, Bane wouldn’t last 30 seconds against any Batman without the mask.

This is all speculation and opinion, but I see it pretty clearly. No way a healthy Bane beats a healthy Bat.

 

[Pwz414]

Watch it again. Bruce goes to the controls to stop the train and Ras destroys the control panel with his broken sword. Ras then taunts Bruce saying "You are just a man in a cape and that is why you can't stop this train." Gordon was a backup plan.

"To keep Ras and the machine on it" makes no sense. Why wouldn't they remain on it? Ras entire plan hinged on that very fact.

"Who said anything about stopping it?"

It was all a play. Bruce knew this ^^^

Bruce set up a situation in which only he could survive unless he chose to save Ra's. Nothing Ra's said in that scene mattered, he was being owned by his apprentice, and completely unaware of that fact.

 

[ares834]

I'm not arguing that he was ever as strong as Bane, but a man who can one arm curl 220 + pounds is going to damage a body when he attacks it, any body, Bane's included. So let's say they fight and Bane can't feel a thing, he's still taking damage, and Bane did everything he could to end Batman in the limited time he had just after the mask broke, and he couldn't. PERIOD! Give him three minutes, maybe, but is TDK Batman just going to stand there, no. He's going to punch the **** out of Bane... The mask would break, and let's be honest, Bane wouldn’t last 30 seconds against any Batman without the mask.

This is all speculation and opinion, but I see it pretty clearly. No way a healthy Bane beats a healthy Bat.

But this is all assuming that TDKR Batman, after he escapes the pit, is inferior to TDK Batman. I don't see it that way at all. In the pit it seems that not only does he regain his former strength and speed, but he surpasses it.

 

[ThePhantasm]

"Who said anything about stopping it."

It was all a play.

No, that was a reference to his backup plan. It makes absolutely no sense any other way. Why else would Batman go up to the train if not to attempt to stop Ra's personally?

 

[TLH]

Bane would win his first encounter with Batman regardless. It's the whole point and it's imbedded in Bane's story/legacy. Batman underestimates Bane while, at the same time, he overestimates himself. I don't think it makes a difference when it happens.

 

[TheHighlander]

Well. Batman was overconfident in his previous abilities! He thinks he is still tdk batman! That is why he is beaten. Bane has an advantage and its that he feels very little to no pain. Just like batman feels less with the suit!

Batman would win prime vs prime.

 

[Pwz414]

No, that was a reference to his backup plan. It makes absolutely no sense any other way. Why else would Batman go up to the train if not to attempt to stop Ra's personally?

None of this stuff is one layer deep.

Just because you say it makes absolutely no sense any other way doesn't make that the truth. I can just say that doesn't make sense... So you're saying plan A was to go up there, beat up Ra's, stop the train, and take him to jail? The man who first swore to destroy western civilization? It seems clear to me that Batman was carrying a red sash and Ra's was an angry bull that ran head long into his own death. A ultimatum point orchestrated by Bruce if Ra's refused to stand down, but none the less entirely caused by Ra's' overzealous and psychotic pursuit of Gotham's destruction.

Hence, he drew the fight out until they were blocks away from WE, where Ra’s would surely be killed unless Bruce saved him.