The Death Penalty: Where Do You Stand?

[Goshdarn Batman]

100% against.

Originally Posted by Bubonic
-It has been proven that the presence of the death penalty does not reduce crime.
-People have been wrongfully sentenced to death.
-It won't bring your loved ones back
-Two wrongs don't make a right
-It comes off as barbaric

btw;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8QrFtB4Q3uA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dpBSFwQhLbE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VJOqZ58C19k

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TVMho2cP1NE

 

[bullets]

I think we should do the world a favor and get rid of excess baggage , starting with the jail cells . It's not barbaric , it just makes sense.
I've yet to see a valid why not to carry out an execution . Mistakes ? Those can happen with anything , blame the justice system not the death penalty . Also we should carry it out sooner than later, then you might see a reduce in crime. Nowadays Death Row is a walk in the park compared to what it should be. Does god want us sitting around trying to solve a problem that can't be fixed . I think not. Also who said we can't change the rules.

 

[04nbod]

no one deserves to die and we can't play god. Its not for us to judge. Punishment should be in the quality of life.

 

[Kent]

It is the states role to protect its people. In the case of criminals likely to repeat their crimes, this means making sure that they cannot hurt people again. In the case of criminals unlikely to repeat their crimes, this means punishment to deter others from comitting the same crime.
I do not, however, think it should be the role of the state to punish for the sake of punishment/revenge.

In the first case, the death penalty is simply not necessary. Just lock them away.
In the second case, the death penalty is necessary if it truly works as a deterrent, and then only if it works notably better than incarceration would. As far as I know there is no work that has conclusively shown this is the case (I know there are studies where the result has come out in favor for deterrence, but as far as I understand it there is good reason to doubt the outcome of these studies).

Even if it is the case, it is important to note that the death penalty is as final as it gets. There is no "Whoops, we made a mistake". The person in question is dead, gone, finito. Therefore, it stands to reason that the case against the accused must be extremely strong. We are talking multiple and independent witnesses, forensic evidence (preferably DNA), etc. There can be no room for error, however slight.

There are many "buts" but under the right circumstances, I could hypothetically support the death penalty (only as a deterrent).
I am skeptical at this moment though, and at this moment in time I would have to say no.

 

[Kalit]

I've yet to see a valid why not to carry out an execution . Mistakes ? Those can happen with anything , blame the justice system not the death penalty . Also we should carry it out sooner than later, then you might see a reduce in crime. Nowadays Death Row is a walk in the park compared to what it should be. Does god want us sitting around trying to solve a problem that can't be fixed .

So you have not seen a valid reason, even though there are plenty given in this thread? Of course you're religious. Assuming you're christian, how can you justify murder in some cases, when your god says that thou shall not kill? You don't think people can change?

I'm against the death penalty, and I think our main problem is we're trying to lock people up, instead of helping them. Throwing everyone in jail for years has not done anything to lower crime, so why not try another approach?

 

[StorminNorman]

no one deserves to die and we can't play god. Its not for us to judge. Punishment should be in the quality of life.

So no "Life in Prison" terms?

After all - that is a condemnation of death.

 

[Albiceleste]

Since I know that I am never going to be on death row or in jail. I couldn't care less

 

[redmarvel]

I'm against Capital Punishment / the Death Penalty. Here in Canada a forensics doctor has been arrested for falsifying his results, a number of cases are now under review and wrongfully imprisoned people are being released. Do a Google Search on the News section for "Wrongfully Convicted" or "Wrongfully Imprisoned" and I'm sure you'll be amazed at the number of hits you get. Our justice system is not 100% accurate when a conviction is made. As long as there is the slightest chance that the wrong person might die, then we should not have a death penalty. (Even if it's the right person, killing someone isn't justice, it's revenge)

 

[kane9321]

nuff said

 

[Hotwire]

I also wanted to share something my wife also found in her research. The only country in the world that executes more criminals than the U.S., is Iran. And the only countries that execute more people than the state of Texas are all middle eastern countries.

My wife also updated me with figures. On average, to keep someone locked up in a maximum security prison for life (around 40 years on average) is around $1.4 million. To put someone to death, which requires mandatory appeals, can cost up to $3 million per prisoner.

 

[The Guard]

We spent weeks on this in Criminology classes. Weeks. Endless heated debates, papers, etc. And I came out of it believing that there simply is no logical reason to go on with it.

First, it is, at heart, a moral hypocrisy. You're going to say it's wrong to kill someone in cold blood and then you're going to kill someone in cold blood? Are you freaking kidding me?

Second, what does the person's death accomplish? It is simply a proven fact that the families and loved ones who have lost people do not generally just "get over" the death of their loved one or find any kind of peace in the death of their loved one's killer. Most speak about how forgiving that person is the only way they've found peace.

It doesn't deter crime. Most murders, and indeed most "brutal" crimes are spur of the moment, or crimes of passion, or drug-induced and unlikely to be deterred by thinking "Will I get the death penalty for this"? Do you see murder rates going up or down after someone is put to death? Entire studies have been done on this, go look it up.

It is cruel and unusual punishment. I don't care what the person did, the methods we use to put people to death cause immense pain and suffering. Just because you can't see the person suffering doesn't mean they aren't. Google lethal injection and look at what it does to the human body.

Three drugs are used. The first one is sodium thipental, an ultrashort-acting drug. It acts within a minute to make the brain unconscious. From that point on, it begins to wear off. Depending on the dosage, the individual may wake up within three or four minutes. The second drug is called succinylcholine. It acts at the point where the nerves enervate the muscles and it causes an overstimulation of the muscle, so you get twitching all over the body. The muscles are then completely flacid and unable to move. This drug will act for about 10 minutes, but if given in much larger doses it can act longer. The final drug that is used is potassium chloride. We use that drug to stop the heart beating when we are doing heart surgery and in lethal injection, it is used to stop the heart beating, never to start again.

Question:
What can go wrong in lethal injections?

Answer:
In misuse of the drugs, the thiopental will cause the patient to look like he is falling asleep. The second drug will paralyze him. If the drugs are not given properly, the sleep drug can wear off, allowing the patient to be aware, but unable to move, even to breathe. He undergoes suffocation and asphyxiation in a horribly painful way, even though he looks completely calm as he is lying on the table. Then, he experiences that deep burning sensation as the potassium courses through his veins on the way to the heart.

Question:
How often are mistakes made?

Answer:
We know that in about 40% of cases where lethal injection has been used, there has been misuse in one way or another and it has taken as long as 45 minutes for the person to die. The problem is they tried to make this a very sterile kind of a procedure, but no matter how you dress it up, you are still killing someone.

Question:
What can go wrong technically?

Answer:
The chemistry of the drugs is such that thiopental and succinylcholine, when they react to each other, cause a precipitation of a white, flaky substance that will block up the needle from the IV. What has happened in a number of cases is that they give the thiopental and follow with the succinylcholine, then they get this precipitate whichs blocks the needle. The thiopental wears off. The patient is partly paralyzed and partly not, and begins to move around. In a number of circumstances, they have to close the curtains so that people can't see the struggling. Sometimes they have to start all over again. It's not a clean process because the people who are using the drugs aren't trained to use them.


There's the money element. It costs a TON of money to keep someone on Death Row, and to put them to death. It varies from state to state, but to keep a prisoner for LIFE in prison is cheaper than keeping him on Death Row for ten years. It also costs taxpayers a LOT of money in legal fees, because Death Row inmates have an almost endless amount of appeals, all bills of which are generally footed by taxpayer dollars.

But the best reason not to keep doing it? It is a practice that isn't carried out fairly or, much of the time, accurately. There have been many innocent people put to death simply because they weren't represented properly. And it is a massive economic disparity between those who die and those who don't. The people you see on Death Row are there because they were too poor to afford proper representation or because they are mentally unsound. You don't see too many rich men on Death Row, do you?

I'm for solitary confinement, bread and water, etc. Which may be even crueller and more unusual.

 

[chaseter]

Kill 'em, why should I pay for a comfortable life for them in jail?

 

[Carcharodon]

Kill 'em, why should I pay for a comfortable life for them in jail?

As opposed to apparently paying twice as much to kill them?

 

[Hotwire]

Kill 'em, why should I pay for a comfortable life for them in jail?

Um, see quote below.

My wife also updated me with figures. On average, to keep someone locked up in a maximum security prison for life (around 40 years on average) is around $1.4 million. To put someone to death, which requires mandatory appeals, can cost up to $3 million per prisoner.

 

[Tolkien]

no one deserves to die and we can't play god. Its not for us to judge. Punishment should be in the quality of life.

Wrong. Some people deserve to die. Others deserve to live. It's just not our place to sort them all out. But I will say one thing. It is for us to judge when it comes to handing out justice to Child Rapists and Serial Killers. I'll gladly play God if it means taking these pathetic human beings out of our society. Call it revenge and murder, but they don't deserve to live.

 

[Superfreak]

against: anyone who deserves a punishment like this should instead get life in torture (not prison)

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Wrong. Some people deserve to die. Others deserve to live. It's just not our place to sort them all out. But I will say one thing. It is for us to judge when it comes to handing out justice to Child Rapists and Serial Killers. I'll gladly play God if it means taking these pathetic human beings out of our society. Call it revenge and murder, but they don't deserve to live.

But who says what is worth life and what isn't? You can't measure life, you can't determine its value, and it's not something that can be bought or gained.

I hold to the belief that no one is beyond redemption. For some, the road may be longer than for others. But I don't think that anyone should ever look at a person and say, "You're too far gone." That is where humanity is lost.

 

[Darthphere]

Where I belong. Between you and the people of Gotham.

I love you.

 

[redmarvel]

Wrong. Some people deserve to die. Others deserve to live. It's just not our place to sort them all out. But I will say one thing. It is for us to judge when it comes to handing out justice to Child Rapists and Serial Killers. I'll gladly play God if it means taking these pathetic human beings out of our society. Call it revenge and murder, but they don't deserve to live.

They may not deserve to live, but we deserve to know what made them what they are. I would rather see people like this studied in a lab (and treated like lab rats) to prevent future people like this from existing. If we can study it and learn what makes it happen, we can also start down the road of preventing it from happening.

 

[PemLam]

There are people on this thread saying not to put people to death yet their only suggestions are to put them in prison for life, torture them, treat them like lab rats, put them in solitary, rehabilitate them, etc.

Oddly enough, if you go other threads that talk about the effectiveness of rehabilitation or torture, et al; they're some of the same people that say those programs are ineffective and that they don't fix or deter anything. They seem to take the moral high ground, yet offer no viable solution.

Where's the middle ground? Would your opinion change if it was one of your family that was the victim of one of these people? So until the Phantom Zone is discovered and can be used or a fool proof method of determining guilt/innocence is identified...I guess people will continue to ***** and moan about whatever opinion differs from their own.

 

[The Guard]

There are people on this thread saying not to put people to death yet their only suggestions are to put them in prison for life, torture them, treat them like lab rats, put them in solitary, rehabilitate them, etc.

Oddly enough, if you go other threads that talk about the effectiveness of rehabilitation or torture, et al; they're some of the same people that say those programs are ineffective and that they don't fix or deter anything. They seem to take the moral high ground, yet offer no viable solution.

Where's the middle ground? Would your opinion change if it was one of your family that was the victim of one of these people? So until the Phantom Zone is discovered and can be used or a fool proof method of determining guilt/innocence is identified...I guess people will continue to ***** and moan about whatever opinion differs from their own.

There is no middle ground. That's why the problem hasn't been solved. There's either punishment, or there's an emphasis on forgiveness and rehabilitation. And therein lies the problem. Rehabilitation may not have been proven to work, but then, it's never been given an adequate chance to, either. Prisons are simply an environment where criminals mingle with other criminals.

Maybe something like the prison system found in MINORITY REPORT could work.

Maybe.

 

[jaguarr]

In response to the question posed in the title:

"Wherever you can get the best view"?

jag

 

[PemLam]

There is no middle ground. That's why the problem hasn't been solved. There's either punishment, or there's an emphasis on forgiveness and rehabilitation. And therein lies the problem. Rehabilitation may not have been proven to work, but then, it's never been given an adequate chance to, either. Prisons are simply an environment where criminals mingle with other criminals.

Maybe something like the prison system found in MINORITY REPORT could work.

Maybe.

The financial cost of rehabilitation for every inmate would be far more than the cost posted earlier for the death penalty process; not to mention the subjectiveness of the people determining "fitness to reenter society"...and with no guarantee of success. I know there is no guarantee of guilt for many of the death penalty cases, but in that circumstance, as harsh as it sounds, the chances of them committing another crime is zero.

Guess we'll have to wait until someone finally makes a final decision to either pull the plug (bad pun ) on the death penalty entirely, or come up with a better system.

 

[Cosmic]

I stand opposed. Abolish it, or at least put a moratorium on it, until very extreme cases warrant review.

It's good to see that more Americans are turning against it. Those who oppose it generally seem to be much more informed than those supporting it. Apparently, the more people know about it, the less likely they are to support it.

 

[hammy]

I have no problem with the death penalty being used as a punishment. That's what it is supposed to be. And it could be a deterrent, if justice was metered out in a more timely fashion. The way things are currently, it takes so long to go through the system and get to the death that few criminals have reason to be afraid.