The Dark Knight The ending of The Dark Knight

[Octoberist]

not bad, but it couldnt be an ice cube cause it would melt.

Hello? It's Mr. Freeze's patented ice cubes. Never melts

 

[kedrell]

As long as the joker dies, I'll be happy. The revolving door at Arkham isn't one of the better ideas.

 

[StorminNorman]

I have to admit, that would be pretty effective as an ending, even though I do want Goyer's original outline for THE DARK KNIGHT and BB3 to be adhered to.

Well it really wouldnt be all that big of a change. It is changing a scene that would happen at the start of film 3 to happen at the end of film 2. Not that big of a deal.

 

[Two-Face]

As long as the joker dies, I'll be happy. The revolving door at Arkham isn't one of the better ideas.

Then you're not going like TDK.

 

[Agentsands77]

As long as the joker dies, I'll be happy.

I'm 99.999999% sure you'll be disappointed on that count.

And if Goyer's comments are to be believed, the Joker will feature rather prominently in BB3 as well.

 

[Agentsands77]

Well it really wouldnt be all that big of a change. It is changing a scene that would happen at the start of film 3 to happen at the end of film 2. Not that big of a deal.

Oh, it's a big change to Goyer's outline. Goyer's outline called for BB3 to center around the Joker's trial and feature Dent's scarring in the process.

That seems to indicate that Dent's scarring wouldn't occur at the mid-point of film 3, and actually seems to me that BB3 would be like THE LONG HALLOWEEN in that we would follow Dent's disintigration throughout that film until he snapped. I prefer that - I'd love Dent to be 100% a good, likeable guy in THE DARK KNIGHT, so that we have a really great foundation with him. That way his descent into madness in part II is all that more moving because we've already emotionally invested in the character.

And if the Joker's trial is the focus of BB3, obviously the Joker can't have escaped at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT. I personally find the idea of the Joker being on trial exceedingly interesting. It's never really been explored in the comics, so it would give Nolan and company a lot of room to really do some interesting things.

 

[kedrell]

Then you're not going like TDK.

How do you know? Have you read the script?

 

[Agentsands77]

How do you know? Have you read the script?

Well, Goyer and Nolan did say they weren't going to kill off villains willy-nilly like the old series did and add into that Goyer's statement that the Joker will appear in BB3 as well. I don't think there's really any ground to believe the Joker will die (and he shouldn't, anyhow).

 

[Two-Face]

How do you know? Have you read the script?

I just love it:

The next one would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and Dent in bringing down The Joker...but not killing him. In the third [movie], The Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process." - David S. Goyer, BATMAN BEGINS screenwriter, 2005

http://www.batman-on-film.com/batmovies_beginssequel.html


I don't have to read the script to know that.

 

[kedrell]

Fine. I think it's a mistake, but whatever. I don't follow every little thing they say in the news.

 

[StorminNorman]

Oh, it's a big change to Goyer's outline. Goyer's outline called for BB3 to center around the Joker's trial and feature Dent's scarring in the process.

That seems to indicate that Dent's scarring wouldn't occur at the mid-point of film 3, and actually seems to me that BB3 would be like THE LONG HALLOWEEN in that we would follow Dent's disintigration throughout that film until he snapped. I prefer that - I'd love Dent to be 100% a good, likeable guy in THE DARK KNIGHT, so that we have a really great foundation with him. That way his descent into madness in part II is all that more moving because we've already emotionally invested in the character.

And if the Joker's trial is the focus of BB3, obviously the Joker can't have escaped at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT. I personally find the idea of the Joker being on trial exceedingly interesting. It's never really been explored in the comics, so it would give Nolan and company a lot of room to really do some interesting things.

See I think Two-Face is to intresting a villian to be created and executed all in one film. That is why I think the best case would have Harvey Dent be a major player through out all of TDK (make him a 100% loveable guy - he in many ways is the true hero of Gotham) and then destroy him in the one scene.

I don't think there would be much of a trial for the Joker, I mean his evidence is everywhere. I dont think the Joker should have any real strings (no henchmen, no family, no conspirators) so there is no real witnesses they could bring up. If the trial would really be the main central focus of a good part of BB3 - that means Batman takes a bat seat in his own film to Harvey Dent and The Joker. I dont want to see that.

I want to see Two-Face hunting down the Joker, killing anyone he sees getting in his way - while Batman hunts down both of them. Have Batman haunted by the fact that Harvey was his best friend (Batman's not Bruce Wayne) and how he feels guilty for his transformation. IMO there is a lot of good stuff there.

 

[E-Mack]

Fine. I think it's a mistake, but whatever. I don't follow every little thing they say in the news.

How is killing the greatest comic book villain on his cinematic return NOT a mistake?

 

[Agentsands77]

See I think Two-Face is to intresting a villian to be created and executed all in one film.

Eh, I don't. His origin and what follows immediately thereafter is the most interesting part. I could see Dent scarred mid-film and then the rest being Two-Face aftermath, and I think it would definitely do the character justice.

I don't think there would be much of a trial for the Joker, I mean his evidence is everywhere.

Oh, but the debate about sanity/insanity, death penalty or not, is definitely an interesting subject to explore. Ultimately, the Joker's trial really could be a background item as other stuff goes on in the foreground (just like a Maroni trial would be - it'd still be a background element), but it's worth taking a look at.

I want to see Two-Face hunting down the Joker, killing anyone he sees getting in his way - while Batman hunts down both of them. Have Batman haunted by the fact that Harvey was his best friend (Batman's not Bruce Wayne) and how he feels guilty for his transformation. IMO there is a lot of good stuff there.

I don't like it. It gets away versus the freaks vs. mob theme that I very much want retained.

 

[kedrell]

How is killing the greatest comic book villain on his cinematic return NOT a mistake?

First of all, I disagree with that claim, but it's a matter of opinion. Second, of you don't kill him, then you most likely end up with a revolving door at AA. That just doesn't fit anything except a cartoon or a Joel Schumaker film. It's too unbelievable. I think this is one of the few things Burton(and Raimi with the SM movies) has got right. There are more than enough villans to fill the void.

 

[Agentsands77]

Second, of you don't kill him, then you most likely end up with a revolving door at AA.

Not if the Joker's only featured in two films. And anyhow, getting the death penalty issued isn't easy, so it's not that unbelievable.

 

[E-Mack]

First of all, I disagree with that claim, but it's a matter of opinion. Second, of you don't kill him, then you most likely end up with a revolving door at AA. That just doesn't fit anything except a cartoon or a Joel Schumaker film. It's too unbelievable. I think this is one of the few things Burton(and Raimi with the SM movies) has got right. There are more than enough villans to fill the void.

If villains were killed after their first story, the Batman legacy would've died somewhere in the 40s. The reason this franchise is still going strong is because of the characters that have been invested into the stories. The fans love them and we want to see more.

 

[kedrell]

Not if the Joker's only featured in two films. And anyhow, getting the death penalty issued isn't easy, so it's not that unbelievable.

True, but breaking out of AA repeatedly is.

 

[kedrell]

If villains were killed after their first story, the Batman legacy would've died somewhere in the 40s. The reason this franchise is still going strong is because of the characters that have been invested into the stories. The fans love them and we want to see more.

That's fine for comics and/or cartoons since reality is more easily "streched" in those mediums. Big budget movies is another story altogether.

 

[Agentsands77]

True, but breaking out of AA repeatedly is.

Yeah, but as I said, if the Joker's only featured in two films, the whole "revolving door" thing isn't even an issue.

The revolving door issue would only be a problem if the Joker was repeatedly breaking out of Arkham in the film series, which he won't because his appearances are limited.

 

[kedrell]

Yeah, but as I said, if the Joker's only featured in two films, the whole "revolving door" thing isn't even an issue.

The revolving door issue would only be a problem if the Joker was repeatedly breaking out of Arkham in the film series, which he won't because his appearances are limited.

I suppose I could live with that. Seems redundant though since they already had a "villan gets away to fight another day" in the person of the Scarecrow.

 

[Two-Face]

Lex Luther never died in Superman Reeve/Routh franchise so why Joker should die?

 

[StorminNorman]

I suppose I could live with that. Seems redundant though since they already had a "villan gets away to fight another day" in the person of the Scarecrow.

Well The Joker could simply get away one time, and then break out of Arkham with the help of Harley Quinn another. Then if the Joker once again needs to be busted out...bring in Bane. The Joker has been in and out of Arkham for years in the comics - surely there are a few examples in there that would translate well into film.

 

[Untilteld]

Misleading title

 

[kedrell]

Lex Luther never died in Superman Reeve/Routh franchise so why Joker should die?

Not sure that was a good idea for Superman. What Supes needs is a few of his classic villans to show up for once. Luthor's been in 4 out all 5 Supes movies. That revolving door gets ridiculous too. Although Superman's world is more outlandish and less realistic that Batman's by definition.

 

[kedrell]

Well The Joker could simply get away one time, and then break out of Arkham with the help of Harley Quinn another. Then if the Joker once again needs to be busted out...bring in Bane. The Joker has been in and out of Arkham for years in the comics - surely there are a few examples in there that would translate well into film.

Yeah, but wouldn't it be more believable that Batman would get fed up after all that and just kill the joker? I mean, Bats isn't a boy scout like Superman. He'd just stick one of his bat-a-rangs between the jokers eyes. End of story.