The film as a religious parable/analysis thread!

[The Man Of 16]

I utterly love analysis of movies (film studies student ) so I thought I'd start a thread to discuss such things. I don't think there's been one yet, at least.

I really hope I don't sound too stupid, but anyway. Chime in with your own thoughts. Analyse anything!

On religion

I think there's more religious themes and imagery going on then I'm spotting, but I know there's something going on. Considering that the main themes of the film are forgiveness and redemption, after all...

So I'm going to really go out on a limb here and say that the film could easily be viewed as a religious parable, if the viewer wanted to see it that way. Like so:

Virtually everyone in the film has done something they need forgiving for- by the middle of the film, Peter's essentially killed someone, MJ's betrayed Peter's trust (by kissing Harry), Harry's tried to kill Peter, Eddie's lied, and you all know the Sandman story. Between them they've pretty much got all seven sins covered- MJ is envious of Peter, Harry's full of wrath, Eddie's nothing if not greedy, Peter's giving into pride. Etc.

And most of the characters want revenge. May says 'revenge makes you ugly'- through seeking revenge, Harry's had half his face burnt off, Flint appears in the final battle as a less-then-appealing giant sand monster, and Eddie has become a hideous slimy monster. For all the people complaining about Venom not having much screentime, I think it's because he's more of a metaphor in the film. As has been pointed out in at least one interview, Eddie is essentially what Peter would have been if he had been brought up in a less secure environment. In the movie, I reckon Eddie's a representation of Peter's dark side; the exact polar opposite of him. Peter's a good person at heart and so can throw off the symboite; Eddie's the sort of person who would pray to God to kill somebody, and the symboite turns him into a murderous monster. (which could almost be looked at as a punishment from God: be careful what you wish for and all that.) The symboite itself represents evil: the ultimate ugliness of revenge...

Anyway. Peter goes to church to rid himself of the evil and suceeds (although not without a struggle), but then Eddie, who refuses to believe he's done anything to require forgiveness and shifts the blame onto others (the sin of pride) gives into his own dark side.

Love is a part of religion, or at least it should be, and that's what motivates the others. MJ stands by Peter even after he's betrayed her too (by humiliating her in public- exactly what Venom said he'd do to Peter, come to think of it), and Harry goes to save Peter after being reminded that his friends love him. (If you really wanted to go crazy with analysis, you could say Norman represents the Devil: he tried to tempt Peter back in the first movie and has spent two movies trying to tempt Harry into murder). Sandman's love for his daughter is what redeems him.

Peter defeats the villain in the end because a) someone sacrifices themselves for him and b) because he remembers what he learnt in church (that sound affects the symboite badly, in case you've forgotten ). Can't get more religious then that, really.


Anyway. I'm done now. Please, someone say something.

Buddy, shut the hell up. Good and evil represent ALL stories. God vs satan.

You cant pull religion out of everything buddy.

"That chicken was tasted Good, but the rice tasted Bad. Therefore rice is the devils food!"

"I have been having GOOD bowel movements lately, but the other day I had BAD diarrhea. Therefore diarrhea is the work of the devil."

"White represents cleanliness, which is next to godliness, therefore anything white is loved by god."

With your kind of thinking, anything that represents a challenge is an obstacle put their by the devil in his "master plan" to keep you from Jesus. In which case, scoring a touchdown, a hole-in-one, or a grand slam is considered being with Jesus.

I got news for you, Jesus died a long time ago, twice. His next sequel is in the making, apparently, but you dont need to sub in EVERYTHING with good and evil representing god and satan.

 

[Wams]

Buddy, shut the hell up. Good and evil represent ALL stories. God vs satan.

You cant pull religion out of everything buddy.

"That chicken was tasted Good, but the rice tasted Bad. Therefore rice is the devils food!"

"I have been having GOOD bowel movements lately, but the other day I had BAD diarrhea. Therefore diarrhea is the work of the devil."

"White represents cleanliness, which is next to godliness, therefore anything white is loved by god."

With your kind of thinking, anything that represents a challenge is an obstacle put their by the devil in his "master plan" to keep you from Jesus. In which case, scoring a touchdown, a hole-in-one, or a grand slam is considered being with Jesus.

I got news for you, Jesus died a long time ago, twice. His next sequel is in the making, apparently, but you dont need to sub in EVERYTHING with good and evil representing god and satan.

Absolutely ,unequivocally ******ed. ^ LOL!!!!

 

[The Man Of 16]

Her idea that everything has religious meaning is ******ed. I just used her same thought process and applied them to everything else.

When you compare Jesus to Spiderman, youre making something out to be more than it is. Plus youre just asking for trouble. Im not trouble, but I bet youre going to get an evangelical christian in your face any minute now.

 

[Shmoil]

Buddy, shut the hell up. Good and evil represent ALL stories. God vs satan.

You cant pull religion out of everything buddy.

"That chicken was tasted Good, but the rice tasted Bad. Therefore rice is the devils food!"

"I have been having GOOD bowel movements lately, but the other day I had BAD diarrhea. Therefore diarrhea is the work of the devil."

"White represents cleanliness, which is next to godliness, therefore anything white is loved by god."

With your kind of thinking, anything that represents a challenge is an obstacle put their by the devil in his "master plan" to keep you from Jesus. In which case, scoring a touchdown, a hole-in-one, or a grand slam is considered being with Jesus.

I got news for you, Jesus died a long time ago, twice. His next sequel is in the making, apparently, but you dont need to sub in EVERYTHING with good and evil representing god and satan.

Dude, did you even read the post? Or just the title? Because you clearly did not comprehend what she was saying.

 

[Mr. Socko]

who the **** cares if the movie is a religious parable cant anyone just watch a movie and enjoy it anymore without picking it apart and making judgements

Well George Lucas says when you take it apart, there's nothing there. So all of you are wrong.

 

[amazingdm]

I find it irritating that "Forgiveness" has become some kind of concept exclusive to religion

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

Wtf is this...Lord of The Rings!

You're going to hell.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Are you menstruating?

 

[chaseter]

I hate when people start comparing non-religious material to religion...because a flame war is imminent.

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

Buddy, shut the hell up. Good and evil represent ALL stories. God vs satan.

You cant pull religion out of everything buddy.

"That chicken was tasted Good, but the rice tasted Bad. Therefore rice is the devils food!"

"I have been having GOOD bowel movements lately, but the other day I had BAD diarrhea. Therefore diarrhea is the work of the devil."

"White represents cleanliness, which is next to godliness, therefore anything white is loved by god."

With your kind of thinking, anything that represents a challenge is an obstacle put their by the devil in his "master plan" to keep you from Jesus. In which case, scoring a touchdown, a hole-in-one, or a grand slam is considered being with Jesus.

I got news for you, Jesus died a long time ago, twice. His next sequel is in the making, apparently, but you dont need to sub in EVERYTHING with good and evil representing god and satan.

He died twice, really?

 

[jrd550]

Probably more of a political commentary than religious...

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

Are you menstruating?

I will not even try to pretend that I know what that word means, might want to check spelling.

All I know is if you blaspheme against Lord Of The Rings....YOU GO TO HELL!

Don't tempt fate my friend. Tolkien is God.

:heart:

 

[Johnny Israel]

If the symbiote is a representation of the darkness inside of us and peter needed to be forgiven for his sins against his friends, and Eddie Got the symbiote and had to be destroyed. Didnt then techincally Eddie die for Peter's sins.

Thats right Eddie Brock = Jesus.

= your lord and savior

= Judas


Im jewish anyway so what do I care

 

[Mr. Socko]

I will not even try to pretend that I know what that word means, might want to check spelling.

All I know is if you blaspheme against Lord Of The Rings....YOU GO TO HELL!

Don't tempt fate my friend. Tolkien is God.

:heart:

You got it all wrong. I wasn't saying anything against Rings, I was saying that Rings has religious parables and not Spiderman.



So back off pal, I'm a scientist.

 

[CARNAGE-COMETH]

You got it all wrong. I wasn't saying anything against Rings, I was saying that Rings has religious parables and not Spiderman.



So back off pal, I'm a scientist.

Oh you're a scientist, why didn't you say so from the start. In that case you can go on making statements without me cursing you to eternal damnation.

 

[FatA$$]

FKUC religion...

 

[Tempest19]

Lol:

"Jesus died a long time ago, twice."

What Bible stories have you been reading? He dies and rises from the dead- he doesn't die again.

 

[DACrowe]

Anyway, this movie did have some religious implications.

One cannot ignore that Brock was a Christian who went to Church to pray for revenge. He did not go for absolution of his sins which he chooses to ignore and is the only one in the movie who is not redeemed. Peter goes to Church when he knows he has gone too far and goes there for soul searching and to save his inner-soul, if you will (figuratively or not) by ripping the wrongful dark vengence that conflicts him out. It is painful. He frees himself and is clean as the next shot is him in the shower. On the other hand Brock is consumed with the spirit of vengence in that scene, IN A CHRIST POSE after a shot of Christ on the cross.

I'd also point that in SM2 in a not so subtle image, Spider-Man is "crucified" by saving the train and they lift the limp body of their "savior" into the train and embrace this man of the people. I mean they're not as in your face and annoying as Superman making the Christ pose after "dying" in SR and being stabbed in the back by a kryptonite spear, but it's there.

You can choose to ignore it, but Raimi clearly put a subtext there. And it is not in everything. There is no religious subtext in Chris Nolan's Batman or Rowlings' Harry Potter. LOTR it is there on the other hand. This was not in the first SM movie, it was only in the train scene in SM2 but it is a major subtext in SM3.

I don't think Raimi is saying only Christians have a monopoly on forgivness (usually the opposite, in fact). But he is instead saying that these values common as a theme in the New Testament are a theme that is universal. You don't have to a Christian or religious to see that Peter needs to forgive Flint Marko or at least not keep trying to kill him and that Brock is an evil monster of vengence who never learns his lesson.

But it's there.

Anyway, I have an interesting question. Why was RAimi so in your face about Venom making the Christ pose when he is transforming? He uses the same imagery symbollically in a positive way in SM2 but it is used in an obviously negative way in SM3. He is being consumed by vengence in this scene, but is it merely just saying this is his punishment for being so wicked? I don't know.

 

[FNSpidey]

I don't think Raimi is saying only Christians have a monopoly on forgivness (usually the opposite, in fact). But he is instead saying that these values common as a theme in the New Testament are a theme that is universal. You don't have to a Christian or religious to see that Peter needs to forgive Flint Marko or at least not keep trying to kill him and that Brock is an evil monster of vengence who never learns his lesson.

Exactly. That's why I said the church or religion is meant to represent what is right, not some specific religious belief.

Anyway, I have an interesting question. Why was RAimi so in your face about Venom making the Christ pose when he is transforming? He uses the same imagery symbollically in a positive way in SM2 but it is used in an obviously negative way in SM3. He is being consumed by vengence in this scene, but is it merely just saying this is his punishment for being so wicked? I don't know.

I'm not really sure about this. Maybe it was to draw a parallel between Peter and Eddie? Peter was "crucified" (SM2) and "reborn" as a hero to the city (SM3), whereas Eddie is "crucified" and "reborn" as a villain, a being of hatred?
Or maybe Topher just took that pose, as the symbiote was supposed to be lifting him in the air and as a sign of agony and it doesn't really mean anything. Although it is strange that it'd be included, as it is obvious it can be perceived as a metaphor.

 

[Eggyman]

Creative people love that whole deal of people reading into their work -- it doesn't really mean that that is how it was meant to be, but they would keep it because it adds depth, not from work by them, but by the audience that is then adding to the work.

 

[FNSpidey]

Agreed, but that's only one shot. With the rest related symbolism in the film, I don't think they'd just throw that in there.

 

[Eggyman]

Very true, I was just speaking specifically about the scene mentioned with Topher -- it could very well have been meant, we may never know. But once you bring symbolism into a film, things that were never meant to be taken that way will always crop up . . . maybe they will be realised at the editing stage, or maybe not untill being watched, watched, watched, stripped, polished, and then put back together by the fans.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Well I think Raimi likes BIG AND BROAD metaphors and messages in his movie. The not so subtle image of Peter with his arms stretched out when stopping the train and essientially being "crucified," worked beautifully in SM2 as he was their savior. And it wasn't done in a preachy and pretentious way, either (coughSupermanReturnscough).

The 'crucifiction' pose in Spidey 2 is clumsy and obvious, and doesn't really relate to Spider-Man. Whereas Superman is a messiah (in the broadest term) figure in Superman Returns. Spider-Man isn't send down to earth by his father to do miracles and help humanity.

But I do agree with all the other stuff you said.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Anyway, this movie did have some religious implications.

One cannot ignore that Brock was a Christian who went to Church to pray for revenge. He did not go for absolution of his sins which he chooses to ignore and is the only one in the movie who is not redeemed. Peter goes to Church when he knows he has gone too far and goes there for soul searching and to save his inner-soul, if you will (figuratively or not) by ripping the wrongful dark vengence that conflicts him out. It is painful. He frees himself and is clean as the next shot is him in the shower. On the other hand Brock is consumed with the spirit of vengence in that scene, IN A CHRIST POSE after a shot of Christ on the cross.

I'd also point that in SM2 in a not so subtle image, Spider-Man is "crucified" by saving the train and they lift the limp body of their "savior" into the train and embrace this man of the people. I mean they're not as in your face and annoying as Superman making the Christ pose after "dying" in SR and being stabbed in the back by a kryptonite spear, but it's there.

You can choose to ignore it, but Raimi clearly put a subtext there. And it is not in everything. There is no religious subtext in Chris Nolan's Batman or Rowlings' Harry Potter. LOTR it is there on the other hand. This was not in the first SM movie, it was only in the train scene in SM2 but it is a major subtext in SM3.

I don't think Raimi is saying only Christians have a monopoly on forgivness (usually the opposite, in fact). But he is instead saying that these values common as a theme in the New Testament are a theme that is universal. You don't have to a Christian or religious to see that Peter needs to forgive Flint Marko or at least not keep trying to kill him and that Brock is an evil monster of vengence who never learns his lesson.

But it's there.

Anyway, I have an interesting question. Why was RAimi so in your face about Venom making the Christ pose when he is transforming? He uses the same imagery symbollically in a positive way in SM2 but it is used in an obviously negative way in SM3. He is being consumed by vengence in this scene, but is it merely just saying this is his punishment for being so wicked? I don't know.

Exactly exactly.

Like it or not guys, if Raimi puts religious connotations in the movie, they are in the movie.

 

[BrklynsVeryOwn]

So basically Forgiveness is only a religious point of view?

.....

You're reaching.