The Gary Johnson Thread

[wiegeabo]

He's the chairman.

 

[enterthemadness]

He's the chairman.

I talked to a couple of friends, one who used to be in the LPNC...and he guessed a few things that make sense. Basically, maybe both parties are playing nice, Johnson is trying to get some GOP Donors to donate to Johnson 2016 or something, etc.

Johnson does have a Super Pac, Our America PAC, which donates to libertarian minded GOPers. So, I guess Johnson is playing both fields.

Johnson clearly hasn't given up on LP, since the LP was a sponsor for the Liberty Forum. Best(Hopeful) guess is Johnson is trying to get some GOPers to donate to the LP in 2016 or at least to his PAC.

IF Rand Paul isn't the nomination in 2016 for GOP, I wonder how much money may flow into the LP. Or maybe GOP may be trying to get Johnson back as a back up to Rand...liek maybe the libertarian faction...eh.

 

[enterthemadness]

Nice MSNBC interview. 1/19/14.


http://www.msnbc.com/weekends-alex-...n-will-take-christie-at-his-word-121522755861


Over 6 minutes long, Gary's thoughts on Gov Christie's scandal, NSA reforms, and weed.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I talked to a couple of friends, one who used to be in the LPNC...and he guessed a few things that make sense. Basically, maybe both parties are playing nice, Johnson is trying to get some GOP Donors to donate to Johnson 2016 or something, etc.

Johnson does have a Super Pac, Our America PAC, which donates to libertarian minded GOPers. So, I guess Johnson is playing both fields.

Johnson clearly hasn't given up on LP, since the LP was a sponsor for the Liberty Forum. Best(Hopeful) guess is Johnson is trying to get some GOPers to donate to the LP in 2016 or at least to his PAC.

It's more like Johnson is being both idealistic and pragmatic. Sure it's nice to support third parties on paper, but it isn't realistic because third party candidates just aren't ever going to win. At best, they play spoiler.

It's as I've told you so many times, it's good to be idealistic, but if you actually want those ideals implemented, there needs to be an actual practical strategy. Donating money to libertarian Republicans is an actual realistic strategy and one that shows that Johnson is trying to play this for the long term.

IF Rand Paul isn't the nomination in 2016 for GOP, I wonder how much money may flow into the LP. Or maybe GOP may be trying to get Johnson back as a back up to Rand...liek maybe the libertarian faction...eh.

My guess is close to none. Having the GOP attached to donating money gives confidence to those who are giving money. It makes them feel like they are giving money to a candidate who has a shot at actually winning and thus they will get a return on their "investment." Without the GOP, that security is gone.

It's the exact same thing with the Democratic Party, most activists aren't going to go off and support the Greens or the new Justice Party. They're going to try and influence the Democratic Party to move in that direction instead because it's more practical and the people with money will feel secure in that money actually going somewhere.

 

[enterthemadness]

It's more like Johnson is being both idealistic and pragmatic. Sure it's nice to support third parties on paper, but it isn't realistic because third party candidates just aren't ever going to win. At best, they play spoiler.

It's as I've told you so many times, it's good to be idealistic, but if you actually want those ideals implemented, there needs to be an actual practical strategy. Donating money to libertarian Republicans is an actual realistic strategy and one that shows that Johnson is trying to play this for the long term.


My guess is close to none. Having the GOP attached to donating money gives confidence to those who are giving money. It makes them feel like they are giving money to a candidate who has a shot at actually winning and thus they will get a return on their "investment." Without the GOP, that security is gone.

It's the exact same thing with the Democratic Party, most activists aren't going to go off and support the Greens or the new Justice Party. They're going to try and influence the Democratic Party to move in that direction instead because it's more practical and the people with money will feel secure in that money actually going somewhere.

Just curious, what would you say...what are your thoughts on voters switching to be Independent instead of being a D or a R? And yes, most I's vote D or a R, that isn't what I am getting at.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Just curious, what would you say...what are your thoughts on voters switching to be Independent instead of being a D or a R? And yes, most I's vote D or a R, that isn't what I am getting at.

You pretty much answered the question. It really means nothing overall. It does show how most people are fed up with both the Republicans and Democrats, but there is still no viable alternative to them.

And that's the keyword here: viable alternative. Unless another party gains governing experience, there is no viable alternative to the Republicans and Democrats. While people can be misinformed, ignorant, or just flat out stupid, they're not irrational. People aren't going to give the responsibilities of governing to a group that has no experience in actual governing. The only way there can be a viable alternative to the two major parties is if we switch away from a FPTP system of voting in which the one with the most votes wins into a more proportional system which gives seats based on voting share.

 

[enterthemadness]

You pretty much answered the question. It really means nothing overall. It does show how most people are fed up with both the Republicans and Democrats, but there is still no viable alternative to them.

And that's the keyword here: viable alternative. Unless another party gains governing experience, there is no viable alternative to the Republicans and Democrats. While people can be misinformed, ignorant, or just flat out stupid, they're not irrational. People aren't going to give the responsibilities of governing to a group that has no experience in actual governing. The only way there can be a viable alternative to the two major parties is if we switch away from a FPTP system of voting in which the one with the most votes wins into a more proportional system which gives seats based on voting share.

Ok. I believe this only happens when...when USA defaults on debt/dollar is officially worthless. I dunno when that will happen...I'm not gonna lie....I care...I really do, but my personal/professional life gets in way. Us Americans are happy(asleep) as long as we have cable and internet it seems.

 

[Kelly]

If we have a 3rd party anytime soon, it will be something like the Whig Party I'm afraid because it seems that the Republicans just can't get their **** together. Yes we had 4 Presidents from this party, but that will not happen this time around, they will just be spoilers at the Primary level.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It seems the general public won't even entertain the idea of letting a third party serve as a spoiler these days.

Half of them are still mad Clinton got elected thanks to Ross Perot.

The other half are mad Bush Jr won thanks to Ralph Nader.

 

[Pink Ranger]

If we have a 3rd party anytime soon, it will be something like the Whig Party I'm afraid because it seems that the Republicans just can't get their **** together. Yes we had 4 Presidents from this party, but that will not happen this time around, they will just be spoilers at the Primary level.

If that means a return to period costumes and makeup, then count me in.

 

[enterthemadness]

If we have a 3rd party anytime soon, it will be something like the Whig Party I'm afraid because it seems that the Republicans just can't get their **** together. Yes we had 4 Presidents from this party, but that will not happen this time around, they will just be spoilers at the Primary level.

No, it'd be the LP or Green. You have to remember, ballot access laws limit growth.The Commission on Presidential Debates limits growth as well. We already have a new Whig Party as well. You'd just see people going to current 3rd parties that are somewhat known. ****, $50Million got POURED into American Elect and it went no where cause of the laws and what not. $50M poured into the LP will go somewhere nationally or even go much farther in state races. Granted GOP donors could attempt to start a new party, but they would fail by design of ballot access laws. Unless if they pour in $100M+ money and start at state level. It's all about money. You can get past the state ballot laws and CPD if you are LOADED. You telling me a 3rd Party with $300Million war chest could win?

What do you mean by 4 Presidents? We've had more than 4 Presidents in history of GOP. Right?

 

[hippie_hunter]

I seriously don't get how you're not getting that our voting system is what limits third parties. It really has nothing to do with ballot access, the Commission on Presidential Debates, and money.

A nation with an FPTP system typically ends up with two party systems.

 

[enterthemadness]

I seriously don't get how you're not getting that our voting system is what limits third parties. It really has nothing to do with ballot access, the Commission on Presidential Debates, and money.

A nation with an FPTP system typically ends up with two party systems.

Err, I got FPTP confused with the other thing. Open voting? Whatever, a 3rd party probably won't take off anytime soon. #defeated

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Maybe the Libertarians will successfully take over the GOP.

 

[wiegeabo]

Or maybe the third parties should focus on grassroots efforts of changing voting systems at local levels and getting elected at local levels. Then work up through the ranks with candidates who have local level experience getting into higher offices. First at state levels, then beyond.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Libertarian: "Sir, would you like to sign a petition to change the two party system."

Old white voter: "Get off my lawn, hippie!"

Green Party organizer: "Sir, would you like to sign our petition to change the two party system?"

Old white voter: "Get off my lawn, hippie!"

I think the Tea Party gained momentum because almost everyone wants lower taxes and they were backed by the Koch brothers.

 

[enterthemadness]

Libertarian: "Sir, would you like to sign a petition to change the two party system."

Old white voter: "Get off my lawn, hippie!"

Green Party organizer: "Sir, would you like to sign our petition to change the two party system?"

Old white voter: "Get off my lawn, hippie!"

I think the Tea Party gained momentum because almost everyone wants lower taxes and they were backed by the Koch brothers.

First off, the LP and I imagine other 3rd parties always run in special elections and state wide elections. It's just that these parties mostly only get voted in or win in for city positions or school board type positions. Preeeeeetty low level stuff. I know the LPNC was talking about running and trying to win a few seats in the Senate within 5 years or so. I may be wrong.

The Koch brothers to me are a mixed bag. I guess it's nice Gary Johnson seems to like them, but the whole conspiracy thing and corruption thing I dunno about.

149 Elected Libertarians in USA.

http://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-officials

Looks like 129 for Greens...

http://www.gp.org/index.php/election-news/officeholders.html

 

[Kelly]

No, it'd be the LP or Green. You have to remember, ballot access laws limit growth.The Commission on Presidential Debates limits growth as well. We already have a new Whig Party as well. You'd just see people going to current 3rd parties that are somewhat known. ****, $50Million got POURED into American Elect and it went no where cause of the laws and what not. $50M poured into the LP will go somewhere nationally or even go much farther in state races. Granted GOP donors could attempt to start a new party, but they would fail by design of ballot access laws. Unless if they pour in $100M+ money and start at state level. It's all about money. You can get past the state ballot laws and CPD if you are LOADED. You telling me a 3rd Party with $300Million war chest could win?

What do you mean by 4 Presidents? We've had more than 4 Presidents in history of GOP. Right?

I'm not saying the 3rd party would be called the Whig Party. That already exists, it is mostly made up of fiscally conservative/socially progressive military. I'm saying that it would be much like how the fracturing of parties created the Whig Party in the first place, and THEN turned into the Republican Party.

And no where did I say the 3rd party would win. In fact, I said that they wouldn't be anything other than spoilers.

 

[enterthemadness]

I'm not saying the 3rd party would be called the Whig Party. That already exists, it is mostly made up of fiscally conservative/socially progressive military. I'm saying that it would be much like how the fracturing of parties created the Whig Party in the first place, and THEN turned into the Republican Party.

And no where did I say the 3rd party would win. In fact, I said that they wouldn't be anything other than spoilers.

I give up.......

No, no, I get it now. Thank You.

Besides, I get it. It's gonna be a D or a R for a very long time.

 

[enterthemadness]

If Gary Johnson or in 2016 did Ross Perot numbers, 92 or 96 numbers, that would be quite a bit of money from the tax payer being poured into the LNC/LP. But whatever, it doesn't matter. Politics are just a hobby of mine now. Nothing will change except on paper it seems.

 

[Kelly]

If Gary Johnson or in 2016 did Ross Perot numbers, 92 or 96 numbers, that would be quite a bit of money from the tax payer being poured into the LNC/LP. But whatever, it doesn't matter. Politics are just a hobby of mine now. Nothing will change except on paper it seems.

Unfortunately you are correct, and IMO, it has a lot to do with the media. The media today, and it happens in all outlets, demonizes ANYONE that does not reflect their personal values. Which is ridiculously wrong, because that is not their job. Until they start doing their job, and vetting ALL candidates, and allowing the voices of ALL candidates then the ignorant voter will remain ignorant. There are very few people out there that actually research the candidate they vote for and try and understand the background and how they came to their values, their readiness for the job so to speak among other issues. They vote for a D or an R, knowing nothing of the candidate. When you have a media that encourages this, well.....then 3rd parties just won't get the traction. NOW, at the local levels, and even state levels, yes....they do get some traction, and that is why your organizations that have a strong grass roots infrastructure do well at that level.

 

[enterthemadness]

Well, I guess I will watch the State of the Union tomorrow...I mean I should, that way, I can see how Gary Johnson's measures up...

t: because Gary Johnson is on FBN's Stossel tomorrow night (Tuesday) at 11pm. It's a State of the Union Special. Basically Johnson and Stossel will preach Libertarian ideas and say why they don't agree with Obama. popcorn time mos def.


when Gary is on tv, I feel like someone let him out of prison.

 

[enterthemadness]

If we have a 3rd party anytime soon, it will be something like the Whig Party I'm afraid because it seems that the Republicans just can't get their **** together. Yes we had 4 Presidents from this party, but that will not happen this time around, they will just be spoilers at the Primary level.

Ok...this got me thinking.


If or when the Republican Party fractures...wouldn't the Commission on Presidential Debates bar them ( the party that forms out of GOP ) from the debates?

1. The CPD is operated under D's and R's.
2. CPD requires a 3rd party to be at 15% support in 3 or 5 polls at once. Is it even clear if the CPD can raise the threshold? I don't see why not they would raise it to 20 or 25% of public support for a 3rd party if GOP broke into two.
3. Ballot Access is a lot of money and there's no way a party that fractures from GOP is gonna have the money to battle different ballot access laws that D's and R's came up with to make it hard for 3rd parties. Each state is generally different ballot wise. Oklahoma is maybe the worse ballot wise. A 3rd party needs around 100K in signatures...which means about 300K needs to be collected to stand a chance of being on ballot. As signatures often get tossed out after further review.
4. News Media. While they *may* cover news/stories of the GOP breaking into 2 parties, as long as a majority of the donors donate to GOP and the GOP has it's ''arm'' in FOX News it would be hard for the new party to take off.

Thus, the only way a party will survive long-term breaking from GOP is if the new party can attract(steal) GOP donors away.


And also...if or when the GOP breaks into two... what happens to all of the elected GOPer's in Congress and the Senate? Do they stay with the GOP? Would some elected officials resign and go to the new party?


Would the weakened GOP try and merge (absorb) the Libertarian Party to stay in power? Or would the new party work (absorb ) other parties?

 

[enterthemadness]

BREAKING. Gov Gary Johnson will once again be on RED EYE tonight on FOX NEWS. At 3 am. Twice in one week he be on tv (yesterday he was on FOX Business Network's John Stossel)


I would really love to see ol' Johnson host Red Eye for like a month. I know it might be...a no-no...like oh, he went from Governor to 3rd party run as President and got over a million votes to now...hosting a entertainment news parody type show at 3am...but goooooood, I want to see him host for a month. I think I honestly rather see him host the show than um...run again. Tired of Gutfeld. No more Bill Schulz...

 

[Slushy]

Gov. Ventura interviews Gary Johnson on today's episode of Off The Grid!

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