The "I am SO SICK of all this talk about recasts/reboots/revamps/re-whatever!" thread

[Chris Wallace]

Damn, you got to see Star Wars, and the first Batman film. Not including the first three Indy films. (Though I know you haven't seen any of those)

How was it in the summer of '89? That and '77 are the two years I'd like to travel back to. And '81

Keep in mind that I was but 5 when the first Star Wars hit, so the hype on the adult level was kinda lost on me. You overlooked, however, that I saw the first Superman film as well. In fact, it's the only one I did see in theaters. I remember coming out of the theater thinking, "That was great. I wonder when they're gonna make Spider-Man?"
I'm glad noone was around who could answer that question.
As for the summer of '89, it was crazy. People were selling bootleg Batman T-shirts, (I kid you not) guys were getting the bat-logo cut into their hair, radio stations were KEEPING "Batdance" & "Scandalous Sex Suite" in constant rotation. Prince even performed "Electric Chair" on SNL w/a big bat logo overhead. Batman was everywhere. The hype was so extreme there was even a resurgeance of interest in the TV show. I don't think I've seen people go as crazy for any film outside of the Star Wars movies.
Oh, yeah-and I also came out of that one thinking "When are they gonna make Spider-Man?"

 

[WeaponXProject]

I definitely don't want a reboot or whatever of the X-Men films i wish they would just make another sequel. They can't and won't be able to get a better cast and I am satisfied with the series. I know it could have been better but I think it has had the best series next to Nolan's Batman and is on par with Raimi's Spidey.

I think the Elektra sequel/reboot is an awful idea and will not sell anyway what so ever.

One of the only remakes or redo's would be a Spawn movie. I thought the first one left us with a bad taste.

 

[Chris Wallace]

My biggest problem w/Spawn was that I felt they should have gone all out & made an "R" rated movie. there was no reason to try & make a kid-friendly movie off a comic that isn't, especially right on the heels of the adult-themed cartoon.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I dont believe this at all. A lot of fans understand that most franchises dont have to stop at 3 movies and they dont understand why, but the studios **** can their 3rd movies constantly.

You can say they tie up loose ends in third pieces but they leave them open just as much as any of the others. Just cause there wasnt a cliffhangar doesnt mean there isnt room to continue.

Blade Trinity had the "vamp final solution" but Blade survived and Hannibal said he was still out their doing his thing.

X-Men 3 ended with Magneto actually still having his powers, a mutant becoming an elected official, and the mansion reopening. Plenty of space to continue.

Spiderman never had any loose ends really. Except for Harry's subplot throughout all 3 movies, they were each mostly self-contained.

Its more like the studios seem in such a rush to get the third ones out. Even more you hear about back to back sequels. They may have worked for LOTR but they were the downfall of Matrix and POTC.

Batman and Robin and Superman 4 were both horrid but you saw they were going that way in Batman Forever and Superman 3. BF obviously had a tone shift due to Shumacher and Supes 3 had Richard Pryor, nuff said (funny guy but completely out of place).

Spiderman and X-Men can still recover. SM4 is being discussed, but theres no talk about X-Men passed spin-offs that (while Wolvies looks good) dont seem to care about the continuity they have created.

Others cant be recovered. Studios have moved on, actors and filmmakers have moved on. Daredevil, Fantastic Four, and others could definitely use a reboot.

Marvel's doing their thing with first installments. We're hearing more about DCs first installment and that Superman could essentially go in either direction. Any possible reboots prolly wont be for awhile.

Bottom line: the reason for the all the reboot talk is not just "daily fanboy whining about crumby film series," but this new climate that the comic subgenre is experiencing. Not "how many can we make so that we can make some money" but "what stories could we portray really great on screen."

The franchises can recover, but if not for the pressure to finalize things, the damage may not have been done.

 

[cerealkiller182]

The franchises can recover, but if not for the pressure to finalize things, the damage may not have been done.

Thats part of my point. "New climate." Comic movies seem to be going in a direction where the studios are taking more care in their production. But can the existing film properties really recover? Definitely not all of them. Spiderman and possibly X-Men. Maybe Fantastic Four but I wont be holding my breath. Daredevil and Blade are dead in the water and Ghost Riders a lost cause.

If you have the chance to make mediocre movies better than why not? Its not about making everyone happy but more about making a good adaptation and/or something cinematically worthwhile. Many of the movies that are being discussed around here are guilty pleasures at best.

And at the same time they are being discussed for the sake of discussion. If someone were to read the title of the thread people would think the studios were thinking of it, but its harmless chitchat from fans. Its not much to scoff at.

 

[Chris Wallace]

My problem is the blanket "reboot" mentality; where everything that has even the slightest imperfection in fanboys' eyes is painted with the "do-over" brush. You have to admit it's gone way too far. Pretty soon we'll be seeing recast/reboot threads for movies that haven't even come out yet. They'll announce the director & star, & fans will be saying "I don't like it. Do-over."

 

[cerealkiller182]

Now you're just being ridiculous

 

[Doctor Jones]

Now you're just being ridiculous

It's what they've been saying though. Anything THEY don't like, they'll want to see it redone. And we all know that in the real world, power hungry and greedy studios won't listen to them.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Keep in mind that I was but 5 when the first Star Wars hit, so the hype on the adult level was kinda lost on me. You overlooked, however, that I saw the first Superman film as well. In fact, it's the only one I did see in theaters. I remember coming out of the theater thinking, "That was great. I wonder when they're gonna make Spider-Man?"
I'm glad noone was around who could answer that question.
As for the summer of '89, it was crazy. People were selling bootleg Batman T-shirts, (I kid you not) guys were getting the bat-logo cut into their hair, radio stations were KEEPING "Batdance" & "Scandalous Sex Suite" in constant rotation. Prince even performed "Electric Chair" on SNL w/a big bat logo overhead. Batman was everywhere. The hype was so extreme there was even a resurgeance of interest in the TV show. I don't think I've seen people go as crazy for any film outside of the Star Wars movies.
Oh, yeah-and I also came out of that one thinking "When are they gonna make Spider-Man?"

Sounds sooooo damn cool. I wish I was there.

 

[cerealkiller182]

It's what they've been saying though. Anything THEY don't like, they'll want to see it redone. And we all know that in the real world, power hungry and greedy studios won't listen to them.

Of things that are even being made yet? Thats definitely being ridiculous.

You guys have to pump the brakes and chillout because you are blowing **** completely out of proportion. Its a DISCUSSION board meant to DISCUSS practically whatever you want as long as it in some way relates to the OP. You would think from you posts that they actually have bearing on the actual decisions of the studio.

And of course anything they don't like, they'll want redone. If Black Panther gets directed by Michael Bay, written by Zack Penn, and starring Nick Cannon, will Chris Wallace not want a reboot. I find that hard to believe.

Like I said, I dont think anyone believes that Spiderman and X-Men and Hulk as they stand now cannot continue the way they are. But Blade, Daredevil, and Fantastic Four are definitely done for. 2 films lost their leading men and Fantastic Four hasnt even been heard about in a long time. The only reason why THESE movies are talking reboot is for 2 very big reasons.

1) Marvel has started a studio and a shared universe. If rights revert, Marvel could and in popular opinion should reboot some of the bigger names.

2) The films werent successful enough for sequels but are owned by outside studios thus as soon as an amount of time has passed the rights will revert to Marvel so the studios are speaking up about reboots. IE Hulk and now rumblings of Daredevil and pointless X-Men spinoffs. Notice Fantastic Four not being mentioned since it was one of the later sells and the contract pretty much isnt over. Of course this is a big assumption based on Cormans experience with Fantastic Four (the movie was made just so he'd retain the rights)

 

[Evil Twin]

What's the point of "rebooting" FF. So you can retell their origin again? If FF does return, I'm not convinced that the best way to continue isn't simply by jumping into the next adventure ala James Bond. There's nothing that unfaithful about the FF to date that a simple recasting couldn't signal to the audience. The fine details and tone may change, but moving forward with good movies is probably better than moving backwards.

I feel the same about Daredevil. Just go ahead and adapt Born Again and be done with it. Daredevil doesn't need a reboot, it just needs a good story told by a good director and cast.

Comics should teach us that you don't have to reboot from scratch every time you want a new direction.

 

[cerealkiller182]

What's the point of "rebooting" FF. So you can retell their origin again? If FF does return, I'm not convinced that the best way to continue isn't simply by jumping into the next adventure ala James Bond. There's nothing that unfaithful about the FF to date that a simple recasting couldn't signal to the audience. The fine details and tone may change, but moving forward with good movies is probably better than moving backwards.

I feel the same about Daredevil. Just go ahead and adapt Born Again and be done with it. Daredevil doesn't need a reboot, it just needs a good story told by a good director and cast.

Comics should teach us that you don't have to reboot from scratch every time you want a new direction.

I dont think a reboot necessarily means go to the beginning. Hulk didnt and the Punisher doesnt seem to have. But Im sure these movies will need new creative teams and possibly casts. Isnt that basically the difference between remake and reboot. I mean with Batman they went back because the story hadnt been told before.

 

[dude stannis]

But is it worth dropping everything good about an existing franchise when all it needs is a new writer or a new director? Don't forget Eric Bana and Thomas Jane themselves chose to pull out of their roles as Hulk and Punisher. Would Hulk have been any different if the opening three minutes where different and Bana was still the lead? I know I would've liked as much.

 

[cerealkiller182]

But is it worth dropping everything good about an existing franchise when all it needs is a new writer or a new director? Don't forget Eric Bana and Thomas Jane themselves chose to pull out of their roles as Hulk and Punisher. Would Hulk have been any different if the opening three minutes where different and Bana was still the lead? I know I would've liked as much.

Ben Affleck already bailed out calling it his most embarassing moment on film (thats saying a lot). Wesley Snipes wants nothing to do with Blade. Goyer scared him away. Other than that I said that Spiderman, X-Men, and Fantastic Four are still fixable Spiderman being the most than X-Men than F4. Im not against them continuing, but what Ive been doing is trying to get in studios mind. These franchises faded away or didnt make a big enough splash. Batman, Superman, and Hulk reboot with financial succes and Batman makes one of the biggest splashes in cinema history. The studios are talking reboot, the fans are just talking about ANYTHING they want. This is a world of hypotheticals. Theres as many people pulling for Routh as there for Welling or anyone else. Just as many people suggesting hit story arcs for Daredevil as those going back to the beginning. I dont think these reboots are just snatched out of the air, but honestly instead of a bunch of random Xmen spinoffs (which arnt necessarily horrible) Id rather see an X-Men series that is viable for more than 3. They dont seem interested in continuing (at least more interested in spinoffs).

I dont particuarly think that Spiderman will be rebooted anytime soon or Batman, but the next line of reboots Im pretty confident will be THEE film series for at least 20 years. If not, the studios will just look foolish

plus, is a reboot just a new direction for an existing franchise.

 

[dude stannis]

From the studio minds only Casino Royale was the successful reboot. Batman Begins made the same as Batman & Robin when you take inflation into account, The Dark Knight is a sequel not a reboot (And the tragic circumstances behind that make it impossible to measure it accurately). Incredible Hulk bombed, supposedly.

Blade's had three films with the story arc being completed in the third. Snipes can do one of those Harrison Ford, Sylvester Stallone 20 year career resurrection sequels but he wouldn't be fighting vampires.

Wait another 15 years and then do a remake of Daredevil.

There's millions upon millions of X-men you can use for 4. Especially since you can use Professor X and Wolverine. Again the overall storyarc has been concluded you can do another one off, or a two parter or another trilogy.

F4 could do with a new creative team. No need to lose Michael Chiklis or Chris Evans, who's skills have improved dramatically.

Plus, reboots are just a slap in the face to the hard work of those who deserve praise and the fans of an existing franchise.

 

[cerealkiller182]

From the studio minds only Casino Royale was the successful reboot. Batman Begins made the same as Batman & Robin when you take inflation into account, The Dark Knight is a sequel not a reboot (And the tragic circumstances behind that make it impossible to measure it accurately). Incredible Hulk bombed, supposedly.

Batman Begins had the critical success that Batman and Robin didnt.

Blade's had three films with the story arc being completed in the third. Snipes can do one of those Harrison Ford, Sylvester Stallone 20 year career resurrection sequels but he wouldn't be fighting vampires.

I dont think he'll come back. Goyer chased him away.

Wait another 15 years and then do a remake of Daredevil.

But the studio will lose its contract by then most likely, which is why we are now rumblings of it

There's millions upon millions of X-men you can use for 4. Especially since you can use Professor X and Wolverine. Again the overall storyarc has been concluded you can do another one off, or a two parter or another trilogy.

Can they? Yes, I said that. Will they? They dont seem to care in anything but spinoffs. Theres been no word at all from MAgneto or Young X-Men in awhile either.

F4 could do with a new creative team. No need to lose Michael Chiklis or Chris Evans, who's skills have improved dramatically.

Did I say they could? Yes, I already agreed with that. "Will they?" is another question. Those 2 movies werent even that good at all except for Chiklis and Evans.

Plus, reboots are just a slap in the face to the hard work of those who deserve praise and the fans of an existing franchise.

All of a sudden studios should care about the feelings of filmmakers in the most criticized industry in America.

I think that I have been logical and fair as far as justifying reboots and saying that while they arnt particularly necessary, extenuating circumstances seem to be around.

1) Marvel has started a studio and a shared universe. If rights revert, Marvel could and in popular opinion should reboot some of the bigger names.

2) The films werent successful enough for sequels but are owned by outside studios thus as soon as an amount of time has passed the rights will revert to Marvel so the studios are speaking up about reboots. IE Hulk and now rumblings of Daredevil and pointless X-Men spinoffs. Notice Fantastic Four not being mentioned since it was one of the later sells and the contract pretty much isnt over. Of course this is a big assumption based on Cormans experience with Fantastic Four (the movie was made just so he'd retain the rights)

 

[Evil Twin]

Blade's had three films with the story arc being completed in the third. Snipes can do one of those Harrison Ford, Sylvester Stallone 20 year career resurrection sequels but he wouldn't be fighting vampires.

Why not? If there's anything movies (and comics) have proven is that there's always a way to reintroduce vampires.

 

[mclay18]

From the studio minds only Casino Royale was the successful reboot. Batman Begins made the same as Batman & Robin when you take inflation into account, The Dark Knight is a sequel not a reboot (And the tragic circumstances behind that make it impossible to measure it accurately).

Actually, you're wrong about Batman & Robin and Batman Begins making the same -- they didn't.

According to BOM, B&R sold 23.8 million tickets during its domestic run, while BB sold 32 million tickets. Even taking inflation into count, BB's adjusted cume is $227 million domestic compared to the inflated tally of B&R's $165 million cume.

BB was a successful film, one that actually encouraged the CR reboot.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It's what they've been saying though. Anything THEY don't like, they'll want to see it redone. And we all know that in the real world, power hungry and greedy studios won't listen to them.

WHich is my point.

 

[dude stannis]

Actually, you're wrong about Batman & Robin and Batman Begins making the same -- they didn't.

According to BOM, B&R sold 23.8 million tickets during its domestic run, while BB sold 32 million tickets. Even taking inflation into count, BB's adjusted cume is $227 million domestic compared to the inflated tally of B&R's $165 million cume.

Adujsting B&R's worldwide figures for 2005, it's $332 million, consider the Spider-man numbers WB where expecting, Begins wasn't all that much more successful.

BB was a successful film, one that actually encouraged the CR reboot.

Do you think I've been living under a rock for 3 years?

Batman Begins had the critical success that Batman and Robin didnt.

Batman & Robin sold the toys that Batman Begins didn't. What do you think WB cares more about?

I dont think he'll come back. Goyer chased him away.

That depends on Goyer beign involved.

But the studio will lose its contract by then most likely, which is why we are now rumblings of it

Let them lose the rights. DD1 didn't give them what they expected, they probably wouldn't care.

Can they? Yes, I said that. Will they? They dont seem to care in anything but spinoffs. Theres been no word at all from MAgneto or Young X-Men in awhile either.

Spin offs are taking a franchise in a new direction without having to completely overhaul the whole thing. Far more logical than reboots.

Did I say they could? Yes, I already agreed with that. "Will they?" is another question. Those 2 movies werent even that good at all except for Chiklis and Evans.

20th Century Fox doesn't give a slight about "good". "Cheap" is what they care about. If a sequel works out cheaper, you can bet that's what they'll do.

All of a sudden studios should care about the feelings of filmmakers in the most criticized industry in America.

No, just the paying customer.

I think that I have been logical and fair as far as justifying reboots and saying that while they arnt particularly necessary, extenuating circumstances seem to be around.

Extenuating circumstances? Nerds not liking Spiderman 3, the FF's and X-Men 3 are NOT extenuating circumstances.

As for being logical and fair, I hate to be rude, but you practically personifying Chris Wallace's point.

1) Marvel has started a studio and a shared universe. If rights revert, Marvel could and in popular opinion should reboot some of the bigger names.

They can buy back the rights. Hellboy moved studios without having to do this pointless B.S.

2) The films werent successful enough for sequels but are owned by outside studios thus as soon as an amount of time has passed the rights will revert to Marvel so the studios are speaking up about reboots. IE Hulk and now rumblings of Daredevil and pointless X-Men spinoffs. Notice Fantastic Four not being mentioned since it was one of the later sells and the contract pretty much isnt over. Of course this is a big assumption based on Cormans experience with Fantastic Four (the movie was made just so he'd retain the rights)

X-Men spinoffs are pointless, but scrapping the whole franchise because X-Men 3 was dodgy isn't? Riiiiiight.

What I'm trying to say is reboots are unecessary. As all the film series' I first mentioned prove you don't have to scrap a whole series because of one dodgy sequel when a new creative team, (Or a refocused one) can do the same without having to take away all the great things about an existing series. I don't care what studios are in the process of doing, because that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about reboots being pointless, which they are.

 

[Chris Wallace]

But is it worth dropping everything good about an existing franchise when all it needs is a new writer or a new director? Don't forget Eric Bana and Thomas Jane themselves chose to pull out of their roles as Hulk and Punisher. Would Hulk have been any different if the opening three minutes where different and Bana was still the lead? I know I would've liked as much.

Actually it would have been quite different. I doubt Ross would've held on to the nanomeds & gamma sphere to use on Blonsky. There are numerous story elements that wouldn't have worked if the film had been a sequel. Not to say it couldn't have been done or it wouldn't have been any good, but it would most definitely have been different.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Batman & Robin sold the toys that Batman Begins didn't. What do you think WB cares more about?

Vitality. Not something they milk for 3 years than drop, but something they can milk for 20

That depends on Goyer beign involved.

Studios already sided with Goyer and lost Wesleys trust. Tried to phase him out and spin off a new franchise. At the time Blade was Snipes only theatrical releases.

Let them lose the rights. DD1 didn't give them what they expected, they probably wouldn't care.

Rothman has already stated that if Batman and Hulk can reboot than so can Daredevil. Id gladly let them loose the rights. THis isnt my personal beliefs here but what I think is actually happening.

Spin offs are taking a franchise in a new direction without having to completely overhaul the whole thing. Far more logical than reboots.

Spinoffs are creating new franchises from older ones, not taking them in new directions.

20th Century Fox doesn't give a slight about "good". "Cheap" is what they care about. If a sequel works out cheaper, you can bet that's what they'll do.

But reboot is a gimmick. Like Batman and Bond they will try to emulate that success like studios normally do (copy an existing trend to make a quick buck)

No, just the paying customer.

Since when do corporations ever care about them. They treat paying customers like puppets.

Extenuating circumstances? Nerds not liking Spiderman 3, the FF's and X-Men 3 are NOT extenuating circumstances.

Nerds who happen to be one of the more vocal members of the audience. The ones who buy every special edition DVD and memorablia. They have more power than you think. Plus the overall critical success was never that great for those movies in the first place. We havent heard from these movies in awhile. Everytime they bring it up everyones so coy about it.

As for being logical and fair, I hate to be rude, but you practically personifying Chris Wallace's point.

How so?

From my understanding Chris is saying that reboot talk is useless and unnecessary and theres no reason why the franchises cant continue. I have stated that while they most certainly can continue and be successful, there is still evidence that more reboots are possible and/or could be a more viable option, as well as this being a DISCUSSION board, and that any DISCUSSION is warranted. Most importantly I have never said "reboot" everytime I see a bad movie. I think its incredibly unfair you dont think I am being fair.

They can buy back the rights. Hellboy moved studios without having to do this pointless B.S.

I was leaving open the possibility of Marvel wanting to tailoring it to their shared universe. If thats the case it may be easier for them to reboot and redefine their existence to that universe. PLus you cant always expect the talent to come with the property rights like it did for Hellboy.

X-Men spinoffs are pointless, but scrapping the whole franchise because X-Men 3 was dodgy isn't? Riiiiiight.

Dont patronize me for godsakes. The spinoffs sound like they are hanging by a thread except for Wolverine. Wolverines success Im sure will speed up the other spin offs, but why make a bunch of movies branched off the franchise instead of showing actual interest in continuing the franchise.

What I'm trying to say is reboots are unecessary. As all the film series' I first mentioned prove you don't have to scrap a whole series because of one dodgy sequel when a new creative team, (Or a refocused one) can do the same without having to take away all the great things about an existing series. I don't care what studios are in the process of doing, because that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about reboots being pointless, which they are.

Its a matter of opinion. One you dont seem to like respecting. Im saying that reboot talk from Hype! members has been sparked by successful projects with a higher degree of quality and a number of hints by studio heads. I never said that all those movies should be rebooted. In fact I know that I specifically said that Spiderman, X-men, and Fantastic Four (the ones you seem so attached to) can definitely be saved but you seem to just ignore that statement. I also said that some properties that havent seen any progress in years and wasnt that great to begin with should probably be rebooted because at this point it would be just as easy as revitalizing the series since for example Daredevil didnt really leave an open ending and you'd probably just end up with 2 self-contained movies

My point while not exactly necessary, there is evidence that some could be better off rebooting.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'm not against the reboot concept altogether. But I think there's too much push for it where it's 90-95% unwarranted.

 

[Sawyer]

Chris, I get what you're saying, sometimes it feels like everyone on these boards wants a rebooting for everything except for Iron Man and Batman (even though, in some cases a reboot is necessary).

First of all, I think anyone who wants a reboot for Spidey or X-Men is just being stupid. There is plenty of room to expand on the respective universes with the films given to us. Whether or not you liked X3, the film can keep the franchise moving foreward (and not just in prequels and spinoffs). And as for Spidey, even though there were aspects of SM3 that I wasnt a fan of, it wasnt so bad that a reboot is the only way out.

The Incredible Hulk, even if it was not much more financially sucessful than the first, would be a stupid thing to reboot. Its set firmly in the Marvel movie universe with Iron Man and as far as I'm concerned was a great film and perfectly sets up for sequels.

Superman... I can go either way on this. Whether its a sequel or a reboot, I would just like a better movie. Less constant homages to Donner. Less funny Luthor. More actual villains. Superman has a great rogues gallery and the past films have essentially ignored them all. And I also didnt find Kate Bosworth to be a very good Lois. Much too melodramatic.

Daredevil... I'm gonna have to say reboot with this one. Had it just been DD, I think it could have been repairable without a reboot, but Elektra really screwed it up. Just a God awful movie. Jennifer Garner is great and all, but really no Elektra.

Fantastic Four... I'd prefer a reboot. I think I'll just leave it at that.

Overall, I think the term reboot is thrown around way too often, but is necessary on occasion.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I agree with you on everything except the last 2. Elektra is out of DD's life, her movie needn't be mentioned. Daredevil can move forward. It's unlikely that Fox will do this, but it is doable. And I actually like the FF movies. I found them much more enjoyable than the comics, which I just could never get into.