The Israel Situation II - Part 2

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thread Manager, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. Donner Formerly Elektra1 (she/her/hers)

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    And for what reason? I think when you get to the bare bones of it, this is Christian America backing the Jews so the Rapture happens and everyone except for Christians goes to Hell.
     
  2. Lily Adler Politically Delicious (P) (she/her/hers)

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    Yeah it's pretty much based on the idea of God's chosen people and it will fulfill the second coming of Christ. The other is the US's way of reparation by not getting involved in the WW2 sooner to help against the Holocaust despite most of America being okay with that back then.
     
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  3. DarthSkywalker My Hands Are Cold (he/him)

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  4. InCali I got a pUpgrade!

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    I think the basic reason the US backs Israel is political. Politicians are afraid to be seen as anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian. That being said, it is in everyone's political interest to come up with an answer that allows for peaceful coexistence.
     
  5. Fosterson Registered

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    I would argue that US guilt over not intervening sooner against the Nazis has very little to do with why the United States supports Israel so strongly today. Instead, it has everything to do with the cold hard realities of realpolitik - Israel serves US geopolitical interests in the Middle East and therefore the United States supports it. The fact that Israel is a Jewish-majority country is irrelevant. The US would support Israel just as much if it was mainly Christian.

    Its worth remembering that both the United States and Soviet Union supported the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and in both cases it was because both superpowers thought the new nation would take their side in the Cold War. Truman thought Israel would become a capitalist ally in the Middle East, whereas Stalin hoped that it would become a Communist country (after all, many early Zionists were Marxists). Of course, the Americans were proved correct in the long-run, but it goes to show that for the two countries most responsible for the defeat of Nazi Germany, their rationale for supporting the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine had nothing to do with guilt over not stopping the Holocaust sooner (and in Stalin's case, actually being allied with Hitler from 1939-1941) and everything to do with self-interest.
     
    #455 Fosterson, May 14, 2021
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  6. Fosterson Registered

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    This is from Alma Har'el (director of Honey Boy):

     
  7. Marvolo Registered

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    What is Israel's government saying about the bombings? Are they claiming Hamas are in the locations they are striking, or are they saying this is a shock and awe situation?
     
  8. DarthSkywalker My Hands Are Cold (he/him)

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    Last I saw, they said they are trying to destroy "underground tunnels" Hamas uses. Who might live in or around these "tunnels", does not seem to matter. Obvious excuses to destroy any progress those in Gaza have made since the last time they did this.
     
  9. MagnarTheGreat Web Ninja

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  10. Sithborg Registered

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    I would hope the recent targets crosses a line for many.
     
  11. Teelie Jokerface

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    No, the line just gets moved further back.
     
  12. MagnarTheGreat Web Ninja

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  13. Detective Conan Registered

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  14. Marvolo Registered

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  15. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    He is the single biggest barrier to peace.
     
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  16. DarthSkywalker My Hands Are Cold (he/him)

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  17. Fosterson Registered

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    In most countries, its fairly common for heads of government to be well-protected at all times.

    Just read about the US Presidential Car, nicknamed "the Beast":

    Presidential state car (United States) - Wikipedia

    That thing has bullet-proof windows, tyres that can still work while flat, a totally sealed interior to survive a chemical attack, and a tear-gas cannon!

    That being said, one Israeli prime minister was assassinated in the past: Yitzhak Rabin in 1995. Although the perpetrator in this case was actually a Jewish extremist who opposed the Oslo Accords.
     
    #467 Fosterson, May 15, 2021
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  18. Marvolo Registered

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    Gaza: Israeli disinformation to media lured Hamas into tunnels: report

    Israel accused of tricking major news outlets into reporting a fake Gaza invasion to lure Hamas fighters into tunnels that were targeted for massive airstrikes

    Nir Dvori, a military reporter for N12, one of Israel's leading news networks, described the original IDF statement as disinformation meant to prompt Gaza's fighters to enter the tunnel system, known by the IDF as "the metro," to prepare for street battles in the enclave.

    "The IDF makes Hamas think that a ground operation is beginning, which causes the organization to bring in all its fighters, including the Nahba, the special force of Hamas, to go down into the tunnels and prepare for combat," Dvori wrote.

    "Then for 35 minutes, 160 planes hover over Gaza and drop 450 bombs, which are over 80 tons of explosives, on the entire Gaza 'metro.'"
     
  19. OtherwiseKnownAs We live inside a dream (P)(he/him/his)

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  20. Sithborg Registered

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    I mean, is what the Israelis doing that different from how we did warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan.
     
  21. samsnee Ok

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    Saying Israel is just defending itself right now is laughable.
     
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  22. Fosterson Registered

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    The major difference, I would argue, is that the adversaries that United States fought in Iraq (ex-Baathists, Al-Qaeda, Shia militias etc) and Afghanistan (primarily the Taliban) were/are significantly more numerous, better equipped and dangerous than Hamas or Islamic Jihad are.

    I'm certainly not justifying the terrible things the US has done in both of those countries, but I do see a difference in that regard.
     
    #472 Fosterson, May 16, 2021
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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  23. Lily Adler Politically Delicious (P) (she/her/hers)

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    To Biden:

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Holy Slapper Registered

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  25. Punisher_MAX Ol' Painless

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    Can someone sparknotes the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict? My basic understanding is that Israel was formed after WWII out of Palestinian land because reasons, and since then Israel has basically been eradicating them out of their land.

    I feel like I'm missing some important info so I can have a more informed opinion outside of "Israel are Dicks and I don't know why our government keeps backing them."
     

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