Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Manasrepublic]

It will be tragic yet haunting if he dies in the film. It will be equally haunting if the whole film is a story that could be entirely made up by the Joker. The possibilities are endless and it makes this film so so cool sounding as a result.

I hope the film really examines the fine line between feeling sympathy but also be horrified by what Joker does or possibly induce both both. I hope it tips that balance and really holds a mirror the audience on discussing the grey shades of the horrible circumstances Arthur in and what he eventually does. I love the tone of sadness and creeping horror and madness of the teaser. It really is a work of beautiful editing and art

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I hope the film really examines the fine line between feeling sympathy but also be horrified by what Joker does or possibly induce both both. I hope it tips that balance and really holds a mirror the audience on discussing the grey shades of the horrible circumstances Arthur in and what he eventually does. I love the tone of sadness and creeping horror and madness of the teaser. It really is a work of beautiful editing and art

Definitely. And I can't think of anyone better than Phoenix at making you either sympathise with him (Her) or absolutely despise him (Gladiator).

 

[Schlosser85]

Definitely. And I can't think of anyone better than Phoenix at making you either sympathise with him (Her) or absolutely despise him (Gladiator).

To me, his character in Gladiator is both loathsome and a little, if not sympathetic exactly, at least a little pitiable.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

The subway scene looks kind of confusing to me. The Joker's just had his ass beat down by those teens who stole his sign and then...he gets his ass beat down again? Oddly repetitive.

Welcome to Gotham

 

[The Guard]

It will be tragic yet haunting if he dies in the film. It will be equally haunting if the whole film is a story that could be entirely made up by the Joker. The possibilities are endless and it makes this film so so cool sounding as a result.

What if he dies in the film AND the whole film is a story that could be entirely made up by The Joker?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

To me, his character in Gladiator is both loathsome and a little, if not sympathetic exactly, at least a little pitiable.

In a pathetic way, yes.

 

[Manasrepublic]

Definitely. And I can't think of anyone better than Phoenix at making you either sympathise with him (Her) or absolutely despise him (Gladiator).

My only serious concern is the director. But then again Adam Mckay has made some serious good films from his comedy background. I hope Todd Phillips can pull this off. This is a super ambitious project for him and in a way I would have preferred if Scorsese was directing. Maybe phillips will do the job well. The teaser really looks promising

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

My only serious concern is the director. But then again Adam Mckay has made some serious good films from his comedy background. I hope Todd Phillips can pull this off. This is a super ambitious project for him and in a way I would have preferred if Scorsese was directing. Maybe phillips will do the job well. The teaser really looks promising

I do share your concern. Still, maybe this is actually more the type of film he's always wanted to make. It could be his breakthrough to greater things. If the trailer is an accurate reflection of the film then I think a lot of people are going be knocking on his door!

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Rocanrol]

So, there's some speculation regarding the chronology of the movie?

For me it's obvious that the goverment related activities (garbage disposal, public hospitals, etc.) are being greatly mismanaged and the whole city sentiment is in a down low and crime and violence are on the rise.

Maybe there's the character introduction to his daily life of struggle, comings and goings to the mental hospital and his relationship with his fading mother.

Then the first assault on Fleck happens, and inmediatly after that we have the scene all hunched back in the dressing room, bruised up; followed up with him dancing with his mother and writing jokes.

I think the comedy club scene belongs right in the middle of the story, empowering Fleck to make some kind of stunt in Wayne Hall, in a sissiphic attempt at gaining some semblance of control in his life.

The second assault I think happens after the phone boot scene, were his mother might have died, and Fleck, this time armed, kill all three of those bullies, runs through the slums and transforms into the Joker.

Some anti-1% revolt, that leads to the train chase by Gordon and Bullock and later the Joker getting hit by a car and later going to the precint.

The character of Zazzie Beets, while clearly meant to deepen the angst against the rigid inequalities in society, don't know where to place it. Feels like an after-thought.

 

[Guts]

Arthur refers to his mother in the past tense in the opening dialogue in the trailer. Very likely that she dies.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Go get 'em Dad.

I still can't get over how ****ing awesome Joker looks in TDK.

Agreed! The look has become so iconic and rightfully so.

 

[Guts]

Anyone else reminded of The Man Who Laughs with the shots of a smile being forced on a face.

 

[Rocanrol]

Yes, there are a lot of homages and allusions to The Man Who Laughs! Don't remember were I heard it, but there was this idea that Fleck cannot "smile" nor really laugh, drowned in his neverending sadness and sorrow... that's why he constantly forces himself to smile and laugh!

 

[TheComicbookKid]

So, there's some speculation regarding the chronology of the movie?

For me it's obvious that the goverment related activities (garbage disposal, public hospitals, etc.) are being greatly mismanaged and the whole city sentiment is in a down low and crime and violence are on the rise.

Maybe there's the character introduction to his daily life of struggle, comings and goings to the mental hospital and his relationship with his fading mother.

Then the first assault on Fleck happens, and inmediatly after that we have the scene all hunched back in the dressing room, bruised up; followed up with him dancing with his mother and writing jokes.

I think the comedy club scene belongs right in the middle of the story, empowering Fleck to make some kind of stunt in Wayne Hall, in a sissiphic attempt at gaining some semblance of control in his life.

The second assault I think happens after the phone boot scene, were his mother might have died, and Fleck, this time armed, kill all three of those bullies, runs through the slums and transforms into the Joker.

Some anti-1% revolt, that leads to the train chase by Gordon and Bullock and later the Joker getting hit by a car and later going to the precint.

The character of Zazzie Beets, while clearly meant to deepen the angst against the rigid inequalities in society, don't know where to place it. Feels like an after-thought.

I think the movie revolves around an accident. Except the incident that creates the Joker isn’t the chemical but accidentally killing one of those guys in the suits.

After getting beat up with the sign, Arthur is given or gets a gun for protection because of how dangerous Gotham has become. The only eye witness to the train incident says it’s a guy in a clown mask. So the protesters start wearing clown mask.

Arthur thinks he’s found fame that has eluded him as a comedian. What his mother said about him. So he tries to confront Thomas Wayne as Arthur but gets thrown out. Tries again at Wayne Manor but runs into Bruce and Alfred. So he fully embraces the Joker and goes on tv and it goes horribly.

 

[Travesty]

Yes, there are a lot of homages and allusions to The Man Who Laughs! Don't remember were I heard it, but there was this idea that Fleck cannot "smile" nor really laugh, drowned in his neverending sadness and sorrow... that's why he constantly forces himself to smile and laugh!

I thought that was the point they were trying to make in the trailer? It shows him forcing a smile with his fingers, then he's in the comedy club putting on a fake laugh/smile, and then once he starts to get beat down in the subway, he starts to actually laugh/smile for real.

 

[Rocanrol]

I thought that was the point they were trying to make in the trailer? It shows him forcing a smile with his fingers, then he's in the comedy club putting on a fake laugh/smile, and then once he starts to get beat down in the subway, he starts to actually laugh/smile for real.

Yeap, exactly like that; and in an inversion of the Gwynplaine character who's always smiling because it hurts if he doesn't, Fleck forces himself to smile despite hurting all the time.

 

[Orb]

Regarding what the chronology of events is, I'll echo Rocanrol a bit and given the old rumors (which may or may not be true so major spoiler warning for anyone) and all the set pics and trailer, this is what I think happens in broad strokes

Spoiler

- Arthur seeks therapy in Arkham, a rundown hospital with little care from the city and people as Rocanrol stated, which would be a main message of the movie. Classicism

-Arthur goes through different jobs and keeps getting rejecting and feeling worthless about his comedy routine (the sign incident hasn't happened yet)

-Given the old rumors, Arthur's mom tells Arthur that Thomas Wayne could be his dad. This may be left unanswered or ambiguous as his mother's both physical and mental health is slowly fading but nevertheless this sets off Arthur's obsession with Thomas. Arthur feels he is owed greatness

-Arthur tries to get Thomas' attention at least two times throughout the film. The first is this one where we see Arthur tries to relay a message to Thomas in the set video:

and the second is what we see in the trailer. he tries to get inside Wayne Manor but he meets little Bruce by the gates. If you notice Bruce is carrying flowers in the trailer shot and I bet Arthur gives him the flowers with the message for Thomas. However Arthur keeps getting rejected and this turns into hatred for the Waynes.

-Finally Arthur gets the Clown job but gets his sign stolen. Now I believe the events with the sign, the subway and him running away at night and eventually in the bathroom all happened in one day, one right after the other. You can tell because he's wearing the exact same clothes throughout. He's missing the wig in the bathroom because one of the men in suits takes it off in the trailer. Like Rocanrol I believe Arthur kills them and this sets the incident that the two detectives investigate (played by Bryan Callen and Shea Whigham whom I'm convinced are playing Gordon and Bullock as the old rumors stated that there would be two cops, one good and the other corrupted)
.
-Arthur is running away hastily into the dark streets and eventually into a bathroom because he afraid of what he has done but in the bathroom, he calms down and begins to develop his "persona". (The slow posing in the mirror )

-Arthur begins to do stand up and gets the attention of a manager played by Marc Maron. Arthur gets a gig at the Murray Franklin show but just as Arthur feels happy as he is getting everything he wants, his mom's health suffers and she is committed to a hospital. There are set videos of Arthur standing outside a hospital and he gets questioned by the two detectives. Probably investigating Arthur for the the subway murder that happened.

-Soon the mother passes because of the poor funding and support from the city. This is last straw that drives Arthur insane. Remembering the gig he booked with his manager, he decides to debut his "persona" on live TV and gets in costume. Ala Dark Knight Returns, he kills Murray Franklin on live TV and sends a message via TV. This causes the class revolution and now people begin dressing up as clowns. Arthur attempts one last time to talk to Thomas in the Wayne Hall but now he has the support of his followers protesting outside. Arthur now decides to commit to the Joker persona. He is cahsed by Gordon and Bullock on the train but Arthur escapes. In the third act, the city is in chaos

-Now this part is just pure speculative on my part but I'm just gonna say it. The climax of the movie has Arthur confronting the Waynes and this is where we the audience thinks he kills them but instead Arthur kills Bruce a revenge on Thomas for abandoning his son. The Waynes are driven insane by the Joker. Arthur dies in the end by the hands of Gordon. In the end, Gotham is left to decide how to carry on as it realizes that they as whole are at fault for this great tragedy. The End

Phew my wrists hurt

 

[Manasrepublic]

Regarding what the chronology of events is, I'll echo Rocanrol a bit and given the old rumors (which may or may not be true so major spoiler warning for anyone) and all the set pics and trailer, this is what I think happens in broad strokes

Spoiler

- Arthur seeks therapy in Arkham, a rundown hospital with little care from the city and people as Rocanrol stated, which would be a main message of the movie. Classicism

-Arthur goes through different jobs and keeps getting rejecting and feeling worthless about his comedy routine (the sign incident hasn't happened yet)

-Given the old rumors, Arthur's mom tells Arthur that Thomas Wayne could be his dad. This may be left unanswered or ambiguous as his mother's both physical and mental health is slowly fading but nevertheless this sets off Arthur's obsession with Thomas. Arthur feels he is owed greatness

-Arthur tries to get Thomas' attention at least two times throughout the film. The first is this one where we see Arthur tries to relay a message to Thomas in the set video:

and the second is what we see in the trailer. he tries to get inside Wayne Manor but he meets little Bruce by the gates. If you notice Bruce is carrying flowers in the trailer shot and I bet Arthur gives him the flowers with the message for Thomas. However Arthur keeps getting rejected and this turns into hatred for the Waynes.

-Finally Arthur gets the Clown job but gets his sign stolen. Now I believe the events with the sign, the subway and him running away at night and eventually in the bathroom all happened in one day, one right after the other. You can tell because he's wearing the exact same clothes throughout. He's missing the wig in the bathroom because one of the men in suits takes it off in the trailer. Like Rocanrol I believe Arthur kills them and this sets the incident that the two detectives investigate (played by Bryan Callen and Shea Whigham whom I'm convinced are playing Gordon and Bullock as the old rumors stated that there would be two cops, one good and the other corrupted)
.
-Arthur is running away hastily into the dark streets and eventually into a bathroom because he afraid of what he has done but in the bathroom, he calms down and begins to develop his "persona". (The slow posing in the mirror )

-Arthur begins to do stand up and gets the attention of a manager played by Marc Maron. Arthur gets a gig at the Murray Franklin show but just as Arthur feels happy as he is getting everything he wants, his mom's health suffers and she is committed to a hospital. There are set videos of Arthur standing outside a hospital and he gets questioned by the two detectives. Probably investigating Arthur for the the subway murder that happened.

-Soon the mother passes because of the poor funding and support from the city. This is last straw that drives Arthur insane. Remembering the gig he booked with his manager, he decides to debut his "persona" on live TV and gets in costume. Ala Dark Knight Returns, he kills Murray Franklin on live TV and sends a message via TV. This causes the class revolution and now people begin dressing up as clowns. Arthur attempts one last time to talk to Thomas in the Wayne Hall but now he has the support of his followers protesting outside. Arthur now decides to commit to the Joker persona. He is cahsed by Gordon and Bullock on the train but Arthur escapes. In the third act, the city is in chaos

-Now this part is just pure speculative on my part but I'm just gonna say it. The climax of the movie has Arthur confronting the Waynes and this is where we the audience thinks he kills them but instead Arthur kills Bruce a revenge on Thomas for abandoning his son. The Waynes are driven insane by the Joker. Arthur dies in the end by the hands of Gordon. In the end, Gotham is left to decide how to carry on as it realizes that they as whole are at fault for this great tragedy. The End

Phew my wrists hurt

An excellent summary and I think you are probably right on most accounts! I’ve never been this excited to see what the third act of a film will be besides endgame

 

[FunkMiller]

Phew my wrists hurt

You’re way too excited about this movie.

 

[Orb]

You’re way too excited about this movie.

This movie is basically what I had in mind before this was even announced sooooo yeah it's partly fan fiction for me lol

 

[Rocanrol]

You’re way too excited about this movie.

Are you sure you are in the right place?

@Orb great analysis and speculation, totally forgot about Fleck trying to reach Thomas Wayne earlier in the film. I think his mom dies before what you said, while he is in the phone boot where he collapses. After the first beat-up, this second one in the train is the final straw and kills the bullies.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

‘Shazam!’ Surges To $53M+ Opening; ‘Pet Sematary’ Claws $24M – Saturday AM B.O. Update

As an aside, after dropping the first teaser to Todd Phillips’ R-rated The Joker online during the past CinemaCon week, Fizziology via Warner Bros. reports that the trailer generated higher conversation than any of the studio’s trailers in the last 12 months. Google Analytics via WB says that The Joker trailer trended in 69 total markets on YouTube, and 47 total markets on Twitter.

 

[hellblazer103]

So someone probably already beat me to saying this, but how much y'all wanna bet this is our boi Bruce ??

 

[Gothamsknight]

Okay, this is fantastic in every way imaginable.