Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Arachnerd]

I've heard that the actor is great, but the particular way they made this "Joker" and the dialogue are the disappointing ones.

It is needlessly convoluted and irritating at times, I'll say that.

 

[Travesty]

I told myself I was going to watch this season of Gotham, and I never got around to it.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think it's going to be as black and white as him being a villain. If you look at characters like Travis Bickle, and Rupert Pupkin, those were sick, isolated men who lived on the outskirts of society, yet the movies were told from their perspective.

Actually, it makes me wonder if the Joker might end up being the Batman of his own story? Someone who is a vigilante in a costume who is seen as a hero to a certain section of Gotham.

See, that doesn't comfort me. It suggests the fundamental underlying conceptual flawing, of portraying the Joker as being "not black and white", when the Joker is, in fact, *absolutely* black and white. He is, depending on exact version, a nihilistic terrorist and spree killer dedicated to the downfall of society. It does not get more black hat villainous than that. Creating a movie that is all about sympathizing with the Joker is a lot like making a movie that is all about sympathizing with a school shooter.

 

[Guts]

See, that doesn't comfort me. It suggests the fundamental underlying conceptual flawing, of portraying the Joker as being "not black and white", when the Joker is, in fact, *absolutely* black and white. He is, depending on exact version, a nihilistic terrorist and spree killer dedicated to the downfall of society. It does not get more black hat villainous than that. Creating a movie that is all about sympathizing with the Joker is a lot like making a movie that is all about sympathizing with a school shooter.

That's only one interpretation.

 

[Boy Scout]

It’s not wrong to sympathize with or feel sorry for people who experienced trauma, even if they go on to commit terrible acts. That doesn’t mean that their actions are in any way acceptable or should he downplayed or excused, but recognizing the circumstances that led to them becoming criminals is important too.

 

[Guts]

I saw that promo of Gotham's final stage Joker. I don't know if it's possible to have worse Joker than Leto's interpretation but it's good to see that WB is trying.

Gotham's version of the Joker ended with up with white skin before falling into the chemicals. So their interpretation has the chemicals from the Ace plant deform his face and make him go balding instead. But that version of the Joker will only be seen for one episode in the ten years later series finale.

 

[Rocanrol]

Every DC series is a joke regarding how much they disrespect the ip in general, except from a few episodes from Titans.

So we shouldn't start nitpicking

 

[AndyTrevino]

I agree. I don't want to spend two hours watching someone who is not the 'real' Joker in this world.

Not only that, but it would be a HUGE slap in the face to everyone who was excited about Joaquin Phoenix playing The Joker in the first place. It would also be disrespectful to Phoenix himself, having invested all that time into THE Joker, only to find out he's playing someone who "iNsPiReS" the "true" Joker.

 

[Hollis Mason]

How long do you guys think this movie is gonna be? I am expecting 2h 40m or something like that. I hope it is longer. I love that kind of movies.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

2 hours 6 mins.

 

[The Guard]

If it's to have a running time, I prefer it to be multiple choice.

 

[MrsKent26]

See, that doesn't comfort me. It suggests the fundamental underlying conceptual flawing, of portraying the Joker as being "not black and white", when the Joker is, in fact, *absolutely* black and white. He is, depending on exact version, a nihilistic terrorist and spree killer dedicated to the downfall of society. It does not get more black hat villainous than that. Creating a movie that is all about sympathizing with the Joker is a lot like making a movie that is all about sympathizing with a school shooter.

I share some of your concerns, in a way, given that I am someone who preferred that the Joker's origin is never seen. He just shows up up and wreaks havoc, not giving any indication of why other than he enjoys it. I never thought of him as one of those characters that should be humanized or sympathized with in such a way.

However, I'm trying to be open minded and there is something to be said for seeing something new on screen. I agree that the Joker is definitely one of those purely villainous characters, not existing in some gray half-way space, but I don't think witnessing his transition will necessary taint the end-product. In fact, seeing it happening could be exiting. We could end up seeing a story of self-actualization, but in this version the character's truest existence is a villainous one instead of a heroic one. Maybe we'll see his absolute joy at becoming something he never knew he needed to be until he achieved it, at the expense of everything and everyone around him.

 

[Greens]

lol Kane I wouldn't bother trying.

Clearly Cameron Monaghan is the worst 'Joker' to ever grace the screen, said fanboys who probably haven't watched any episode with him sans the interrogation scene from season 1.

His make-up in the final episode looks ****ing terrible. You can literally see the prosthetic chin piece, it doesn't even mesh with the rest of his face. They didn't even try to make it look like a real face. I'm really astounded that people accept this subpar crap, even if you disregard the performance itself.

But anyway...

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

How long do you guys think this movie is gonna be? I am expecting 2h 40m or something like that. I hope it is longer. I love that kind of movies.

I think it's gonna be shorter than that, around the 2hr 10min range.

 

[Greens]

I think it's gonna be shorter than that, around the 2hr 10min range.

Yeah, this seems about right. It's not gonna be comedy length, but also not epic length. So around 2 hours.

 

[Travesty]

I'm thinking around 1hr45.

 

[Deck Rickard]

84 minutes to maximize profits from multiple showtimes!

Just kidding. I think it will probably be a little under 2 hours.

 

[Gothamsknight]

If it's to have a running time, I prefer it to be multiple choice.

I see what you did there

 

[Kane52630]

If it's not exactly 2 hours 45 minutes and 52 seconds long then I'm boycotting.

 

[Arachnerd]

His make-up in the final episode looks ****ing terrible. You can literally see the prosthetic chin piece, it doesn't even mesh with the rest of his face. They didn't even try to make it look like a real face. I'm really astounded that people accept this subpar crap, even if you disregard the performance itself.

But anyway...

Subjectivity. It's a thing. Look it up. The look is fine. I initially disliked it when those blurry leaked photos came out, but even with the faulty make-up, I can see they were trying to go for a Serious House On Serious Earth look minus the hair. I get why people don't like it still, but Gotham has never been shy to do its own thing.

That being said, back on topic. Clearly this film needs to be 4 hours at least.

 

[metaphysician]

I share some of your concerns, in a way, given that I am someone who preferred that the Joker's origin is never seen. He just shows up up and wreaks havoc, not giving any indication of why other than he enjoys it. I never thought of him as one of those characters that should be humanized or sympathized with in such a way.

However, I'm trying to be open minded and there is something to be said for seeing something new on screen. I agree that the Joker is definitely one of those purely villainous characters, not existing in some gray half-way space, but I don't think witnessing his transition will necessary taint the end-product. In fact, seeing it happening could be exiting. We could end up seeing a story of self-actualization, but in this version the character's truest existence is a villainous one instead of a heroic one. Maybe we'll see his absolute joy at becoming something he never knew he needed to be until he achieved it, at the expense of everything and everyone around him.

One can certainly hope, and I will try to be optimistic. Its not like villain-protagonist stories haven't worked before. I just can't forget the other side of that coin, that even really good villain-protagonist stories, like Breaking Bad? Accumulate a *lot* of fans who don't view the villain as a villain at all.

 

[FunkMiller]

How long do you guys think this movie is gonna be? I am expecting 2h 40m or something like that. I hope it is longer. I love that kind of movies.

One hour forty minutes. No reason for it to be longer. Seems like a pretty small scale, insulated story that’s mainly a character study, and probably doesn’t have a huge cast.

 

[MrsKent26]

One can certainly hope, and I will try to be optimistic. Its not like villain-protagonist stories haven't worked before. I just can't forget the other side of that coin, that even really good villain-protagonist stories, like Breaking Bad? Accumulate a *lot* of fans who don't view the villain as a villain at all.

It is really a problem that some fans may not consider him a villain? Maybe such a reaction is more of a reflection on how powerful writing can be if it mimics the actions of actual humans close enough, rather than an indication of a poor portrayal. Maybe it's all just a symptom of the audience's ability to forgive certain actions if a "human" reason is given for them.

 

[Heretic]

I hope that the film is exactly as long as they need it to be to best tell their story. I'm baffled that the rumored length of movies is discussed as much as it sometimes is (like, with Avengers: Endgame)

 

[Guts]

My bet is on 30 minutes long.