Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[FunkMiller]

Speaking personally:

1) This is an Elseworlds story where the filmmakers are free to take whatever creative liberties they want. An Elseworlds Joker story unbound by established canon doesn't necessitate Batman's involvement.
2) We're already getting a Batman movie here in the near future that will presumably adhere more closely to the comic-book canon, so we're getting our Batman fix before long anyway.

I'm really not that stressed about it, to be honest. We've had Batman vs The Joker in some form or another in Batman (1966), Batman (1989), The Dark Knight, and Suicide Squad - not to mention several animated films. And should Reeves decide to make a trilogy of Batman films, it's possible The Joker pops up in there as well. The point being, we've seen the Batman/Joker dynamic on the silver screen a number of times already - some of which are pretty definitive. I don't mind them stretching out and trying something unique. I think a low-budget one-off film is inoffensive in the grand scheme of things.

The thing is, so much of what makes The Joker such a compelling villain comes about as a result of his interaction with, and relationship to, Batman. I strongly feel that without Batman’s involvement in some important respect, you don’t get the clown prince of crime... you just get a psycho in clown make-up. I fear that anyone who is attempting to make a film about The Joker, but doesn’t think Batman is a necessary component, doesn't really understand how The Joker functions. Which is why I believe that Batman will be included in this movie, in one way or another.

 

[The Joker]

Now there's a Snyder who actually knows what he's talking about.

 

[Boom]

The thing is, so much of what makes The Joker such a compelling villain comes about as a result of his interaction with, and relationship to, Batman. I strongly feel that without Batman’s involvement in some important respect, you don’t get the clown prince of crime... you just get a psycho in clown make-up. I fear that anyone who is attempting to make a film about The Joker, but doesn’t think Batman is a necessary component, doesn't really understand how The Joker functions. Which is why I believe that Batman will be included in this movie, in one way or another.

m1ll3r, again, it's an Elseworlds story. All of these character dynamics that we've come to know from the canon don't exactly come into play here. You either need to check that stuff at the door, or this type of thing just isn't for you.

This is no different than a graphic novel like Red Son, that poses a "What if?" scenario that throws out our preconcieved notions of who these characters are. The only difference here is the medium. It's a fun little creative exercise. And if the movie doesn't float your boat, you ignore it and move on. There will be plenty of other Batman/Joker confrontations to come in future films. This doesn't shut that door.

As for Batman's involvement in this, barring a time jump at the end I don't see how that's possible considering Thomas Wayne is alive and well here. Unless of course this version of Batman is active even with his father still alive. But then we go right back to getting hung up on the semantics of the canon.

 

[Rorschach2012]

That’s pretty much exactly how I feel about this project, Boom!

Also, I’m convinced that the whole plot of the movie will be completely called into question because a basket case like Joker is an unreliable narrator. It’s no different from the origin in TKJ. Just one possible explanation.

 

[Kane52630]

Shea Whingham?! Awesome.

 

[Kane52630]

It's also no different from what Gotham is doing.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Unpopular opinion: Michael Shannon is a good actor but not very good as Zod

I would’ve preferred their original choice, Viggo Mortensen

 

[Rorschach2012]

It's also no different from what Gotham is doing.

No idea why people hate on Gotham so much, I haven’t had so much fun with a show in a long time. It’s probably my favorite of the modern DC shows.

 

[Boom]

Unpopular opinion: Michael Shannon is a good actor but not very good as Zod

I would’ve preferred their original choice, Viggo Mortensen

Shame they couldn't talk Mortensen into playing Ra's al Ghul for Batman Begins. I'd have lost my ****.

 

[gwynplaine]

m1ll3r, again, it's an Elseworlds story. All of these character dynamics that we've come to know from the canon don't exactly come into play here. You either need to check that stuff at the door, or this type of thing just isn't for you.

This is no different than a graphic novel like Red Son, that poses a "What if?" scenario that throws out our preconcieved notions of who these characters are. The only difference here is the medium. It's a fun little creative exercise. And if the movie doesn't float your boat, you ignore it and move on. There will be plenty of other Batman/Joker confrontations to come in future films. This doesn't shut that door.

As for Batman's involvement in this, barring a time jump at the end I don't see how that's possible considering Thomas Wayne is alive and well here. Unless of course this version of Batman is active even with his father still alive. But then we go right back to getting hung up on the semantics of the canon.

Good post. I'm looking forward to the film, which feels more in the vein of Gylenhaal's Nightstalker than a CBM. I liked Elseworlds comics and I hope they pull it off on the big screen, Batman or no Batman, best case scenario it opens up new horizon for CBF. I didn't really like the age difference between Nicholson and Keaton, I prefer when the characters are closer in age and it looks like maybe it's also the case here with Thomas Wayne being in the picture like you said.

 

[StarLord]

Unpopular opinion: Michael Shannon is a good actor but not very good as Zod

I would’ve preferred their original choice, Viggo Mortensen

Shannon's Zod was the best part of Man of Steel, for me.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Shame they couldn't talk Mortensen into playing Ra's al Ghul for Batman Begins. I'd have lost my ****.

Yeah he was the original choice if I recall correctly. Those pre-BB days were so fun. We’re so spoiled now.

I’m happy we got Liam Neeson though, I can’t imagine anyone else as Nolan’s Ra’s now.

I hope DC or Marvel can rope Viggo into a role at some point. I liked him for Lex Luthor or Deathstroke too. Maybe Sinestro?

 

[Doctor Jones]

Zod was a solid villain. Probably the DCCU's strongest.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Zod was a solid villain. Probably the DCCU's strongest.

That’s not saying much...

And people say the MCU has a villain problem? LOL

 

[Lily Adler]

CBMs in general have a villain problem. Thanos, Joker, Magneto, and Loki. Wow four out of how many?

 

[Rorschach2012]

CBMs in general have a villain problem. Thanos, Joker, Magneto, and Loki. Wow four out of how many?

I’d add Bane, Pfeiffer’s Catwoman, Doc Ock, and Kilmonger to that list. I think we can agree all of those were pretty great. I’ve personally enjoyed a lot more villains than that, but not sure the majority would agree with me. I pretty much think all the major antagonists in TDKT were fantastic. The X-Men franchise has had some pretty good villains. Romijn’s Mystique was pretty memorable as well, and Sebastian Shaw was underrated. I’m always gonna love DeVito’s Penguin and Carrey’s Riddler too.

 

[Lily Adler]

I don't know if I would count Doc Ock, there seems to be a consensus here that he was good but not true to his original character at all. Bane was good although again people complained he was just Talia's lackey, and I love her Catwoman, but ya know people don't like what Burton did with Selina.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I don't know if I would count Doc Ock, there seems to be a consensus here that he was good but not true to his original character at all. Bane was good although again people complained he was just Talia's lackey, and I love her Catwoman, but ya know people don't like what Burton did with Selina.

A good villain doesn’t have to be 100% like the comics

 

[Lily Adler]

Not disagreeing at all as I know many love Nolan's portrayal of The Joker.

 

[The Guard]

The one thing I want more than anything from this project, aside from this to be a good movie, is for this movie to kill the idea that "The Joker shouldn't have an origin because he's always more interesting when you don't know anything about him" just...stone dead. Or at least to pull off the unreliable narrator approach just...masterfully.

THE DARK KNIGHT was great. A lot of people came to appreciate the character and his potential based on that film's execution. It's not the only way to tell the story of The Joker. There are so many versions of the character, and they have something fantastic to offer. I'm thrilled that we've been able to get so many adaptions/angles on the character. What other villain can boast something like that?

 

[Kane52630]

You must've loved Rob Zombie's Halloween, then.

 

[David H.]

Zod was a solid villain. Probably the DCCU's strongest.

Michael McElhatton ftw!

If only they’d played “Partyman” during that scene...

 

[Rorschach2012]

The one thing I want more than anything from this project, aside from this to be a good movie, is for this movie to kill the idea that "The Joker shouldn't have an origin because he's always more interesting when you don't know anything about him" just...stone dead. Or at least to pull off the unreliable narrator approach just...masterfully.

THE DARK KNIGHT was great. A lot of people came to appreciate the character and his potential based on that film's execution. It's not the only way to tell the story of The Joker. There are so many versions of the character, and they have something fantastic to offer. I'm thrilled that we've been able to get so many adaptions/angles on the character. What other villain can boast something like that?

With you on that. Nicholson’s Joker has a definitive origin and IMO it took nothing away from the character

 

[Iceman]

The one thing I want more than anything from this project, aside from this to be a good movie, is for this movie to kill the idea that "The Joker shouldn't have an origin because he's always more interesting when you don't know anything about him" just...stone dead. Or at least to pull off the unreliable narrator approach just...masterfully.

THE DARK KNIGHT was great. A lot of people came to appreciate the character and his potential based on that film's execution. It's not the only way to tell the story of The Joker. There are so many versions of the character, and they have something fantastic to offer. I'm thrilled that we've been able to get so many adaptions/angles on the character. What other villain can boast something like that?

Yes, also that we can still get future great (film) versions of The Joker regardless of how good Heath’s was. There are many top actors out there that I think could give the character a good go.

And he’s one of the best villains in all media so I don’t find that surprising.

 

[Iceman]

With you on that. Nicholson’s Joker has a definitive origin and IMO it took nothing away from the character

I really loved that origin when I first saw it as a kid. Seemed really sinister back then.