The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[Jim-El]

His complete absence and the lack of even a mention was conspicuous to me and did feel like they left him hanging, but I wouldn't say it "ruined" the trilogy, because to me TDKR was still a very solid movie.

Nice pun......t:

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I never felt that the Joker had to be in the follow up. Besides, he got a most fitting send off in The Dark Knight.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Was it the plan all along to have Bane be the main villain in TDKR or was Joker originally going to come back? At the end of TDK, Joker says he and Batman were 'destined to do this forever'...

That line was meant for the mystique and lore of Batman. The Joker will ALWAYS be his arch enemy no matter if its 100 years from now & they are making Batman movies. The Joker will be there.

As to this trilogy. No. I'm sure you saw the film. The story was flawless, Bane has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Joker. The Joker has nothing to do with the league. The Joker is a psychopath & he's insane. Bane isn't a pyschopath or insane. He's an evil political idealist/terrorist carrying out the mission of al Ghul. Batman just happened to create the joker on his own by squashing the mob.

I don't see how Nolan could fit the Joker into any part of TDKR.

 

[rashad]

Answering threadstarter's question. Not one bit.

 

[KalMart]

That line was meant for the mystique and lore of Batman. The Joker will ALWAYS be his arch enemy no matter if its 100 years from now & they are making Batman movies. The Joker will be there.

As to this trilogy. No. I'm sure you saw the film. The story was flawless, Bane has absolutely nothing at all to do with the Joker. The Joker has nothing to do with the league. The Joker is a psychopath & he's insane. Bane isn't a pyschopath or insane. He's an evil political idealist/terrorist carrying out the mission of al Ghul. Batman just happened to create the joker on his own by squashing the mob.

I don't see how Nolan could fit the Joker into any part of TDKR.

Again, the story with Bane was conceived and written after Ledger had passed and they knew that they'd have to do something without him. Had Ledger not died, it's very possible that a different story would have been written with the full intention of featuring Ledger in the next film....perhaps in a story with Bane or someone else designed to fit together better. So we can't really judge how Joker would fit into TDKR because he wasn't an option for them to begin with.

The question is when Heath was still alive was Nolan even planning on a third installment? Was Nolan's original intent to have a trilogy?
From what I read it seemed Nolan was in no hurry for a third installment if one at all.

That's the thing, he died before the film was done in post and released...and Nolan didn't start putting together a third Batman movie until what, after Inception?

 

[Bruce Malone]

Hell no.

There is no reason the joker should have been the main villain in two consecutive movies. It's called the dark knight trilogy not the joker trilogy.

I mean what more did ppl want from the joker after TDK he was perfect there? As others have mentioned a little cameo would have cheapened the character he's not scarecrow where you can get away with that. Joker has to dominate any film he's in or he's not the joker.

 

[KalMart]

Hell no.

There is no reason the joker should have been the main villain in two consecutive movies. It's called the dark knight trilogy not the joker trilogy.

Or duology, in Joker's case.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Hell no.

There is no reason the joker should have been the main villain in two consecutive movies. It's called the dark knight trilogy not the joker trilogy.

I mean what more did ppl want from the joker after TDK he was perfect there? As others have mentioned a little cameo would have cheapened the character he's not scarecrow where you can get away with that. Joker has to dominate any film he's in or he's not the joker.

Totally agree with you man. After Heath's performance in TDK, personally if it were me, dead or alive I would have left that performance on its own & he wouldn't have come back.

He knocked that so far out of the park. Nobody should even attempt to play the Joker for 25 years like after Nicholson. Its not fair to Heath or to any actor who will try and play the role.

 

[gyzo33]

Joker could of been the one and only factor to make Batman break his one rule.

 

[KalMart]

Joker could of been the one and only factor to make Batman break his one rule.

Like R'as and Dent did?

 

[honsq90]

Was there talk from Nolan or Goyer regarding not including Riddler because he'd be too similar to the Joker?

I can't remember if that was just a comment on the forums or an official quote from Nolan.

If that was what Nolan said, I don't think the Joker would've been a main villain in TDKR because he'd present the same kind of challenges to Batman, albeit on a different scale. Unless Joker decided to bulk up in Arkham and break Batman. Personally, the Joker had his time and I wouldn't want to wait 4 years just to see Joker do more stuff to Gotham. That would ruin the trilogy for me.

I think showing the Joker would've been distracting in the context of the film since he was already so iconic. That said, I wouldn't mind having some viral marketing that suggests the fate of the Joker, kinda like the GCN clips in TDK, just to expand the universe a little.

 

[Mob1423]

I don't feel Heath's death ruined this final movie, but I really figured before it happened that The Joker would play some major part in TDKR. just not the main villain.

Everyone loves a movie where it's Batman vs. The Joker, it's an infinite battle that pleases everyone due to them being total opposites. That's the whole reason I love TDK. Nolan added one more version of a classic showdown

 

[8wid]

What could the Joker have added to the story after he was arrested? The League of Shadows really needed to return to try and finish the job and Talia probably would have been in it regardless. Two Face probably would have simply allied with them to destroy Gotham and would have adopted their form of justice and judgement. I can't see the Joker going on to do much more.

 

[Shpati]

Let's say the Dark Knight Rises story was to stay the same. If the Joker was to make a return in the Dark Knight Rises, I think he would have helped Gotham, if anything, rather than help Bane destroy it.

If they planed for him to return as the main villain, I think he would have to be the main villain second to Harvey Dent or something.

 

[Mob1423]

Let's say the Dark Knight Rises story was to stay the same. If the Joker was to make a return in the Dark Knight Rises, I think he would have helped Gotham, if anything, rather than help Bane destroy it.

If they planed for him to return as the main villain, I think he would have to be the main villain second to Harvey Dent or something.

A man who wants the world to burn in chaos HELPING out an open target of his?

Id say it would've been Joker that killed Bane and not Selina. Joker has such a passion for Batman that he doesn't want anyone to kill him except himself.

 

[Shpati]

A man who wants the world to burn in chaos HELPING out an open target of his?

Id say it would've been Joker that killed Bane and not Selina. Joker has such a passion for Batman that he doesn't want anyone to kill him except himself.

Exactly, the Joker wanted to watch the world burn in chaos. Bane wanted to destroy the entire city in one blow (a Nuclear bomb).

I know it is far fetched. I am just saying I could see the Joker helping Gotham rather than Bane. I would say he would run away, but he cannot run away from Gotham because it was isolated.

True, if the Joker did see Bane trying to kill Batman, he would have shot Bane in the head.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Bane had MORE than enough material to work with that made him the biggest deal. Joker exposing the cover up would hardly make him the major villain lol.

If we're to say Joker could be the one to expose Dent, then how could that just be for a little ol' scene or what have you? Being Joker and being Ledger's performance, I would certainly think there would be something big for Joker in TDKR that could take away Bane's positioning in the threequel.

The script is quoting the lines Bane read. I repeat again; Gordon's speech was several pages long. There's no way in hell Bane read all of those pages in those few lines lol.

The pages could've also been handwritten and still not explain every single death during Dent's killing spree. Nothing is for sure that Gordon did mention them, so I can't assume of it.

The Chechen's antics in that garage had no bearing on his role in the movie. His first scene could have been at the mob meeting and it wouldn't have made a difference to how he played out in the rest of the movie.

Crane's part had no point in the main plot.

His first scene could've been in the mob meeting, but since we did see Chechen in that scene, it did help, and also showing the Batman wannabes that use guns which is not what Batman wanted to inspire. It was a great opening scene for many elements.

I won't call you a liar. I'll just say I think you either misread what he said, or the article was total fabricated BS.

I would like to find the article still, as it didn't seem like a bs one or anything. It seemed like a real deal.

 

[Mob1423]

I brought this up in another thread and it's obviously another "What if...?" thought, but I'd like to know how you guys would've felt about it:

If Heath was still alive, do you think it would've been The Joker who killed Bane and not Selina? I feel like The Joker has always had a passion for Batman and doesn't want anyone to kill him except for himself when the time is right. It would've been an awesome moment for me: Joker saving Batman. Of course, it's also a "This doesn't change anything" moment and Joker would disappear into the brawl outside while Batman ran off to disarm the bomb.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Interesting, but it'll only leave more people guessing and especially the Hypesters on what that all means if Joker just kills Bane and disappears.

 

[serb7]

I don't think it would have. That was important to show Bruce that Selina cares about him, which helps them being together after look more real. But that would have been cool AF

 

[Mob1423]

I don't think it would have. That was important to show Bruce that Selina cares about him, which helps them being together after look more real. But that would have been cool AF

I figured if this scene happened, Selina would show up during the Talia chase and take her down. You would've gotten the same feeling and it would've been a much more obvious sense of love because it is shortly followed by a kiss

 

[Shpati]

I brought this up in another thread and it's obviously another "What if...?" thought, but I'd like to know how you guys would've felt about it:

If Heath was still alive, do you think it would've been The Joker who killed Bane and not Selina? I feel like The Joker has always had a passion for Batman and doesn't want anyone to kill him except for himself when the time is right. It would've been an awesome moment for me: Joker saving Batman. Of course, it's also a "This doesn't change anything" moment and Joker would disappear into the brawl outside while Batman ran off to disarm the bomb.

It would only be nice, if and only if the Joker was fit more into the story somehow. If that would be his cameo appearance, I do not think that will be good. Plus, it would not fit well with the ending, considering that Batman retired and moved on as Bruce Wayne. So why did the Joker save Batman?

I am not saying it could not work, but it seems like it will require a lot of work to get it right. It might require a different ending.

I did not mind Selina killing Bane, just the way she did. It showed that she cared for Bruce Wayne.

 

[Mob1423]

Joker, along with everyone else, doesn't know Bruce Wayne and Batman are still alive. As far as he knows, they're both dead. What Joker does from there on is a mystery best left to never be solved. A Joker without a Batman? Makes you wonder if he loses all purpose at that point.

 

[Shpati]

Joker, along with everyone else, doesn't know Bruce Wayne and Batman are still alive. As far as he knows, they're both dead. What Joker does from there on is a mystery best left to never be solved. A Joker without a Batman? Makes you wonder if he loses all purpose at that point.

Say if Joker freed himself afterwards. If Batman entered his "retirement", wouldn't the Joker do a lot of bad things in Gotham to get Batman out of his "retirement"? Like cause the new Batman (John Blake) some problems?

 

[Mob1423]

Say if Joker freed himself afterwards. If Batman entered his "retirement", wouldn't the Joker do a lot of bad things in Gotham to get Batman out of his "retirement"? Like cause the new Batman (John Blake) some problems?

JOKER DOESN'T KNOW THE ORIGINAL BATMAN IS STILL ALIVE! I think you have a hard time understanding that. And if you've ever seen "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", Joker only caused problems because he knew Bruce was Batman thanks to Tim Drake and only caused trouble in the future because he knew Bruce was too old to stop him. It was torture

But Joker saw Batman "die", not retire, DIE, without knowing his identity. Joker wouldn't feel the same if a Batman Beyond Batman was saving Gotham. In Joker's eyes, it's another copycat. And Joker would kill Blake because Blake has no guidance from Bruce. He's all alone