The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[Infinity9999x]

Ironically, I got in a large debate with someone a long while back (I think around the time BB opened) about the Joker. Basically stating the same thing you did. He doesn't fit the legal definition of insane because he still understands the concepts of right and wrong, but chooses to ignore them.

I don't know how I'd feel about the Joker being dead in TDKR. Though I suppose any situation is going to feel a little contrived. I think everyone realizes that were Heath still here he would be in this last film. I do hope that Nolan explains it in a way that makes sense. One poster on here made a good point that if a certain scenario that's been rumored actually occurs in TDKR, the abscense of the Joker's involvement would seem incredibly forced.

I think there's little doubt that the Joker will be referred to in the dialogue. They can't make the fall of Harvey a focus of the plot without referencing him. But in terms of if they'll explain the Joker away by still being locked up or having been killed/executed/died is all up in the air.

 

[Victarion]

They could easily have a line explaining that he's under federal custody.

 

[redfirebird2008]

It's far more likely that he's locked away in a federal hole under 24 hours of solitary confinement, or is in some kind of terrorist detainment camp overseas (such as Guantanamo Bay, Cuba).

I can see it now. Heath Joker laughing his ass off while getting waterboarded. t:

 

[Charlie The Red]

If you think about it, it makes more sense in the real world.

Once a criminal of that scale gets locked up, they kindof just "disappear."

It would make a lot less sense for them to just throw him in Arkham. That would be like putting Osama bin Laden in Riker's Island.

 

[jmc]

Maybe a news report or something would be an option.

 

[Victarion]

If Foley is a federal agent sent into assist in the capture of Batman, they could have him make an offhand reference to the Joker indicating that he's in federal custody.

 

[Ryan]

so i guess this was answered in the newest empire magazine

 

[Lead Cenobite]

See, I'm an elephant of simple tastes. I like dynamite and gunpowder and PEANUTS. Do you know what all these things have in common? They're cheap.

 

[Nevincer]

so i guess this was answered in the newest empire magazine

Indeed. Such a shame.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I still laugh at the title of this thread. An elephant the size of... the Joker?

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

That's all, folks.

"We're not addressing The Joker at all." "That is something I felt very strongly about in terms of my relationship with Heath and the experience I went through with him on The Dark Knight. I didn't want to in any way try and account for a real-life tragedy. That seemed inappropriate to me. We just have a new set of characters and a continuation of Bruce Wayne's story. Not involving The Joker." (Christopher Nolan, July 2012 issue of Empire magazine)

 

[AndrewGilkison]

There are plenty of great Batman stories that don't have Joker and don't even mention his name. So it's not like they needed to, here.

 

[Just_Human]

That's all, folks.

"We're not addressing The Joker at all." "That is something I felt very strongly about in terms of my relationship with Heath and the experience I went through with him on The Dark Knight. I didn't want to in any way try and account for a real-life tragedy. That seemed inappropriate to me. We just have a new set of characters and a continuation of Bruce Wayne's story. Not involving The Joker." (Christopher Nolan, July 2012 issue of Empire magazine)

Well not a surprise

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

That's all, folks.

"We're not addressing The Joker at all." "That is something I felt very strongly about in terms of my relationship with Heath and the experience I went through with him on The Dark Knight. I didn't want to in any way try and account for a real-life tragedy. That seemed inappropriate to me. We just have a new set of characters and a continuation of Bruce Wayne's story. Not involving The Joker." (Christopher Nolan, July 2012 issue of Empire magazine)

Lame. To me this is what you should NOT do. In order to continue Heath's legacy should continue to live through at least a mention in this film. This is my opinion and I don't think anything can convince me otherwise.

 

[Slipeor]

There is no need to address the Joker. It's been 8 years. Given how much of a psychopath he was, it's reasonable to assume that he was shipped to a psych ward way outside of Gotham. Or that he dies in jail (cancer, heart attack, killed by thug, etc). Or maybe the state that Gotham is in has a death penalty. Hell, it could even be a drug overdose (sorry, that was in bad taste). Bottom line is that it is feasible that he could be dead 8 years later.

In the comics, villains escape jail on a regular basis. In the Nolanverse we need more realism.

 

[KalMart]

Lame. To me this is what you should NOT do. In order to continue Heath's legacy should continue to live through at least a mention in this film. This is my opinion and I don't think anything can convince me otherwise.

Light a ****ing candle and sing a song at the end of the film for him while we're at it. Nothing will ever take away the greatness of that he contributed in the last film...but this is a different film.

 

[Origin]

I like that they won't mention him...?
I think it leaves it open to a 'fill-it-in-however-you'd-like' for the audience type of thing, IDK.

 

[Fudgie]

There is no need to address the Joker. It's been 8 years. Given how much of a psychopath he was, it's reasonable to assume that he was shipped to a psych ward way outside of Gotham. Or that he dies in jail (cancer, heart attack, killed by thug, etc). Or maybe the state that Gotham is in has a death penalty. Hell, it could even be a drug overdose (sorry, that was in bad taste). Bottom line is that it is feasible that he could be dead 8 years later.

In the comics, villains escape jail on a regular basis. In the Nolanverse we need more realism.

If they put Scarecrow in the same looney bin he was working in when he was a shrink then then they would put Joker in Arkham too.

The illness and drug overdose ideas are weak. Nolan is being too sensitive if he thinks mentioning Joker would be bad for Heath's memory. On what planet would that be a bad thing for someone who died.

 

[BatLobster]

I used to think a Joker reference had to happen. However, in the end it would have only drawn attention to the fact that he's not there. No matter how clever, it would have only made us more aware of that Joker-sized elephant in the room and the fact that Heath is gone...which shouldn't have baring on the movie reality.

It seems fitting that both his origins and ending remain a mystery. It's definitely a tough call though. There's no joy in me saying The Joker not getting a mention is the right move, that's for sure. But it seems like the classiest way to go about it. If the story had taken place the day after TDK, then obviously this would not be the case, but they constructed a story that allows for Joker to be a distant memory.

 

[KalMart]

I used to think a Joker reference had to happen. However, in the end it would have only drawn attention to the fact that he's not there. No matter how clever, it would have only made us more aware of that Joker-sized elephant in the room and the fact that Heath is gone...which shouldn't have baring on the movie reality.

It seems fitting that both his origins and ending remain a mystery. It's definitely a tough call though. There's no joy in me saying The Joker not getting a mention is the right move, that's for sure. But it seems like the classiest way to go about it. If the story had taken place the day after TDK, then obviously this would not be the case, but they constructed a story that allows for Joker to be a distant memory.

Well put.

 

[BestGirl]

If they put Scarecrow in the same looney bin he was working in when he was a shrink then then they would put Joker in Arkham too.

The illness and drug overdose ideas are weak. Nolan is being too sensitive if he thinks mentioning Joker would be bad for Heath's memory. On what planet would that be a bad thing for someone who died.

Since we know Scarecrow is running loose from Arkham I wonder why the Joker isn't and what happened to him? Maybe Scarecrow isn't released by Bane and instead escapes on his own.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'm of two minds about it. On one hand, Joker was such an important character to Bruce and Gotham as a whole that I can't see how he wouldn't be mentioned, even if it's just in passing to where he is in the current time. But his fate would most likely be obvious after TDK, that he's rotting away in Arkham or wherever, and even if it's not I like the aspect of leaving him a mystery, like an anomaly that abruptly appears and disappears in the film never to be followed or understood.

 

[Victarion]

Look, bewbs!

Spoiler

Federal Custody. He's probably in federal custody.:rage:

 

[Norek]

This debate is like a full circle:

-Some people say mentioning the Joker is important to the story and should be there

-Other people say mentioning the Joker is not important to the story and shouldn't be there

-Them, some other people say mentioning the Joker doesn't need to be important for the story and could be there just for the sake of it (as a nod to the fans)

-Then, there are people who say mentioning the Joker for the sake of it is pointless and the film will not suffer from it

-Some people are still disappointed that the Joker won't be mentioned, so they go back to the very beginning

Full circle.

 

[Ryan]

I guess my only beef with it is that its looking like everyone is going to get mentioned in this film except the more prolific character of them all. League of Shadows, Dent, Scarecrow,,,but not the Joker? I agree with what was said above. I think its partly out of respect to not only Heath, but out of respect to the people in this new film who are going to have their hands full following Heath's performance.