The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[Kane52630]

Joker’s Whereabouts in The Dark Knight Rises

“Now that the Dent Act had made it all but impossible for the city’s criminals to cop an insanity plea, it (Blackgate Prison) had replaced Arkham Asylum as a preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham’s sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure. Not even Selina.”

Scheduled to be released today on-line and in bookstores, the 415 page The Dark Knight Rises: The Official Novelization by author Greg Cox delves into the Jonathan and Christopher Nolan screenplay a little closer. Original rumors had Heath Ledger’s Joker make a cameo via unused footage from 2008′s “The Dark Knight,” but it panned out as such. Warner Bros. Studio later confirmed it was just a rumor. Cox provides better details and lets fans know about the shady and ambiguous fate of the Joker. Here is the exact quote from the novel by bwims22 at the IMDb boards.

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[BaneBeatBats]

Was it the plan all along to have Bane be the main villain in TDKR or was Joker originally going to come back? At the end of TDK, Joker says he and Batman were 'destined to do this forever'...

 

[Deserana]

Goyer said Two-Face was to be the main villain. Nolan however said it was never gonna be Joker.

Either way it didn't ruin a single thing.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Joker was never going to come back.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Goyer said Two-Face was to be the main villain. Nolan however said it was never gonna be Joker.

Either way it didn't ruin a single thing.

That was Goyer's two-film treatment of Two-Face becoming the villain in the third film but they decided to use both elements in just one movie.

 

[The Joker]

Joker was never going to come back.

How do you know that?

 

[Ryan]

Wow, I never read that interview. Where did Goyer say that? Only thing I heard wad Eckhart saying that the third film was to be heath's. It would be interesting to hear once and for all (and I'm surprised no one asked him on the press circuit) if Nolan had any plans of having the joker in the third.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Though part of me can't help thinking that if Heath was still alive, it would be Joker being the "judge" atop that tower of desks rather than Crane.

 

[shauner111]

How could it ruin it if it turned out to be amazing anyway?

Joker wasn't going to be the villain, he would have had a cameo or a mention and that's all. People need to stop talking about Goyers plan for Two-Face because that was in the early stages, obviously they killed him in the script and it worked out just fine.

 

[shauner111]

Though part of me can't help thinking that if Heath was still alive, it would be Joker being the "judge" atop that tower of desks rather than Crane.

Joker would have still been locked up, Bane wouldnt let that man loose. And Joker wouldnt have done ANYTHING for bane. It was perfect for Crane and out of character for Joker.

The only thing that would have been cool to see and perfect for Joker, is if he killed Bane instead of Selina. A shotgun to Banes head just after Bane holds his to Batmans head. A nice line to Batman about being destined to do this forever, then he vanishes. Maybe Selina scaring him off before she rides the bat-pod down the stairs.

As cool as that could have been, it would still leave you wanting a sequel even more. So no, i think his name would have been mentioned and that;s all.

 

[Deserana]

Wow, I never read that interview. Where did Goyer say that? Only thing I heard wad Eckhart saying that the third film was to be heath's. It would be interesting to hear once and for all (and I'm surprised no one asked him on the press circuit) if Nolan had any plans of having the joker in the third.

Eckhart only said that Ledger signed to be in two films not that he'd be the main villain.

Goyer said this during BB's era I was merely saying how Joker was never planned to be the main villain.

 

[Two-Face]

Wow, I never read that interview. Where did Goyer say that? Only thing I heard wad Eckhart saying that the third film was to be heath's. It would be interesting to hear once and for all (and I'm surprised no one asked him on the press circuit) if Nolan had any plans of having the joker in the third.

He said it right after Begins was released but he didn't say that after TDK got released. I think.

 

[Anno_Domini]

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/88561-premiere-features-batman-begins

Writer David Goyer talks about possible sequels and says (spoilers ahead), "The next one would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and [Harvey] Dent [aka Two-Face] in bringing down the Joker... but not killing him, which is a mistake they made in the first one." The article then says that "In the third, the Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process."

 

[Ryan]

I have a hard time believing anyone would be disappointed with Heath Ledger reprising his role of the joker in any capactity in a third film. However, no, after seeing the Dark Knight Rises, it wasn't his absence that ruined it and wasn't even a factor for me.

 

[BaneBeatBats]

Maybe ruin was the wrong word... did Heath's death make Nolan alter his original plan? I didn't mean to say that TDKR was ruined because I loved the film.

Though I guess I'm glad they went with another villain. Bane was great. Another Joker film may have been too much of the same.

 

[Ryan]

Eckhart only said that Ledger signed to be in two films not that he'd be the main villain.

Goyer said this during BB's era I was merely saying how Joker was never planned to be the main villain.

Well...lol..he didn't say he wouldn't be the main villain either
Who knows, I definately don't.

 

[Anno_Domini]

How do you know that?

Nolan had said this that even if alive, Ledger would not have returned as Joker.

 

[TanneRain]

Joker would have still been locked up, Bane wouldnt let that man loose. And Joker wouldnt have done ANYTHING for bane. It was perfect for Crane and out of character for Joker.

The only thing that would have been cool to see and perfect for Joker, is if he killed Bane instead of Selina. A shotgun to Banes head just after Bane holds his to Batmans head. A nice line to Batman about being destined to do this forever, then he vanishes. Maybe Selina scaring him off before she rides the bat-pod down the stairs.

As cool as that could have been, it would still leave you wanting a sequel even more. So no, i think his name would have been mentioned and that;s all.

So Joker appears for one scene and kills the films main villain during the climax? Seriously?

 

[Norek]

Though part of me can't help thinking that if Heath was still alive, it would be Joker being the "judge" atop that tower of desks rather than Crane.

If Heath was alive, there probably wasn't going to be a scene like that in the first place. Who knows, really...

 

[The Joker]

Nolan had said this that even if alive, Ledger would not have returned as Joker.

Link?

 

[ChrisB]

Nolan had said this that even if alive, Ledger would not have returned as Joker.

I don't think so. There's no way Ledger would have been excluded if he were still alive. Whether Nolan wanted him or not, WB would have made it happen.

 

[Two-Face]

http://www.superherohype.com/features/articles/88561-premiere-features-batman-begins

Yep this is one I was talking about. See how that turned out? I was really excited for Batman 2 that point.

 

[Ryan]

From Eckhart
July 23, 2010

To recreate what Heath has done... I just don't think it's gonna happen," he said. "That's my instinct. Obviously, Heath was supposed to reprise the role in the next one; it was written that way. I don't know if they're going to go on. I suspect they will not have the Joker."

Again, its unclear how much Eckhart knew. I'd still prefer to hear definitively or read a quote from Nolan himself rather then all the speculation.​

 

[Anno_Domini]

Link?

You can look it up yourself, or I may look it up later today to give you a link if you need some solid proof, but Nolan had said this last year about how Joker was never going to be in this film since they did add Goyer's two-film treatment into one film as TDK.

And simply...there is no reason to use Joker just because he's Joker.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I don't think so. There's no way Ledger would have been excluded if he were still alive. Whether Nolan wanted him or not, WB would have made it happen.

Probably as the judge, but that's why.

What would be the point? Imo, TDKR would have been ruined if Joker was any sort of main villain at all.