The Joker Thread - Part 1

[AndyTrevino]

Downey before 2008 could have done it. I want to go back to pre 2008 Downey!

I don't really think we CAN go back to pre-2008 Downey at this point. He's practically a Hollywood giant now. Even so, when I hear "Pre-2008 Downey" I just think of the depressing, then-washed up, rehab RDJ before he really cleaned himself up.

 

[Schlosser85]

Downey couldn’t/wouldn’t do it nowadays.

 

[hellblazer103]

I shot Barbara Gordon

 

[emielaen]

Could not see him going for it forreal and the last thing anyone wants from a Joker performance is a phoned in one.

 

[shauner111]

I wonder if this rumour about Joaquin coming back for two sequels in the next four years is true and if that will lead to even more Joker fatigue from audiences by the time Reeves brings a new one in.

If it happens, I feel bad for the next actor because the GA might get sick of him before he gets the chance to do his thing. I don’t worry so much about two or three Batmen on screen but for some reason the villains should probably be spaced out more.

It also makes you think. Would they continue the Arthur Fleck throughout the 80’s in a Taxi Driver meets Clockwork Orange/Blue Velvet type thing (Mr J has his crew and they go around f’ing **** up in the city). Or would each film be in a different timeline where Joaquin gets to reinvent himself for every movie.

 

[hellblazer103]

How about where they just like

Don't do it

 

[AndyTrevino]

How about where they just like

Don't do it

I'm kind of in the middle but I'd rather have a new, most likely younger version.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Taxi Driver meets Clockwork Orange

That's probably the best natural progression, should Phoenix return.

 

[AndyTrevino]

That's probably the best natural progression, should Phoenix return.

I feel like that's if they wanna continue with the whole Arthur Fleck thing, or at least some of it. If they bring Phoenix back I kinda want him to be a permawhite Joker; for the latter, just taking influence from A Clockwork Orange out of those two examples would be ideal.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I feel like having him start off as the leader of his own little group of henchmen could be cool. Kinda small-time but still has "presence" within Gotham city if that makes sense.

 

[shauner111]

It wouldn’t be small-time. He’s now the most famous dude in Gotham City.

 

[AndyTrevino]

It wouldn’t be small-time. He’s now the most famous dude in Gotham City.

I was talking mainly in regards to a new Joker who's just starting out, similar to Tuco in BCS, but I definitely get what you're saying.

 

[Wheels]

Rather is the first dude to ever bring up Downey as The Joker, and a Joker movie.

Never forget.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Damn.

I’m watching Hereditary right now.

I think Toni Collette is one of the best choices for Joker. If they cast a woman as Joker, I would still portray Joker as a man, while trying to not directly acknowledge gender. Think Swinton’s Gabriel in Constantine.

I'm not sure I'd want that in this franchise specifically but I would love that take. Off-topic but that's what I wanted them to do with The Doctor on Doctor Who for years: female actor, ambigious gender/male character (not that I have any issue with Jodie Whittaker despite the dubious writing she's been given. I'm not one of those people.)

Toni Collette for some villain anyway. Her Hereditary performance is one of the most harrowing bits of acting I've ever seen.

 

[Eddie Dean]

E
Liz
Abeth

Moss

 

[shauner111]

Is always the same.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Is always the same.

That is just patently not true.

 

[shauner111]

Most people’s favourite actors aren’t mine lol. I’ve accepted that. People think loud is amazing and I don’t (unless it’s done with humour like Nicholson, Pacino, Oldman style). Colette and Swinton do nothing for me. Moss is good but anytime it’s a darker project I find she settles on her bag of tricks.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Lol Mad Men and Her Smell are like two totally different people

 

[AndyTrevino]

Most people’s favourite actors aren’t mine lol. I’ve accepted that. People think loud is amazing and I don’t (unless it’s done with humour like Nicholson, Pacino, Oldman style). Colette and Swinton do nothing for me. Moss is good but anytime it’s a darker project I find she settles on her bag of tricks.

I find that unless they're being truly emotional instead of delivering "kewl" monologues like "I am the one who will keep you up at night, because I will NEVER allow you to do (x)", the acting is cringey to me. Being hammy doesn't work unless it elicits a fearful reaction from people, like Tuco Salamanca or Joker in Arkham Origins for instance.

Go ahead, sue me, and it's probably not my place to say because I haven't seen a ton of her movies, but I'm not sure if I get the hype around Meryl Streep. Maybe it's because the popularity ruins her for me, but I always get "Broadway" vibes from her, like she hams it up in everything. I'm not really sure if I get the hype around Kiefer Sutherland either, at least Kiefer Sutherland NOW. I remember him being great in Lost Boys, but otherwise he always plays the "bAdAsS wHo MaKeS tHe HarD cHoIcEs LiKe A BoSS". He's abysmal in that crappy Designated Survivor show on ABC.

Bryan Cranston and Giancarlo Esposito are the only actors who've made the "intimidating" thing work though off the top of my head.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I'm not sure I'd want that in this franchise specifically but I would love that take. Off-topic but that's what I wanted them to do with The Doctor on Doctor Who for years: female actor, ambigious gender/male character (not that I have any issue with Jodie Whittaker despite the dubious writing she's been given. I'm not one of those people.)

Toni Collette for some villain anyway. Her Hereditary performance is one of the most harrowing bits of acting I've ever seen.

The scene after she found *REDACTED* in the car and her horrified sob-screaming sent chills down my spine. It felt so real. That was some of the best acting I'd seen in a horror movie.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'm not sure I'd want that in this franchise specifically but I would love that take. Off-topic but that's what I wanted them to do with The Doctor on Doctor Who for years: female actor, ambigious gender/male character (not that I have any issue with Jodie Whittaker despite the dubious writing she's been given. I'm not one of those people.)

Toni Collette for some villain anyway. Her Hereditary performance is one of the most harrowing bits of acting I've ever seen.

I’m ashamed to say I watched Hereditary for the first time this week. Holy ****. Toni Collette is a POWERHOUSE. How has she not been a villain in a superhero movie before? If they go with a female actress Joker, she is the best choice for sure. Toni Collette cross dressing as a man for Joker would be so unsettling.

Lately I’ve been really deep into horror, and I think they really need to dig into that genre for Reeves’ Joker. Going for an androgynous Joker would be ideal. Synthesize a blend of Arkham Asylum: ASHOSE and Killing Joke’s Joker with Dr. Frank N Furter, Curry’s Pennywise, David Bowie, and Tilda Swinton’s Gabriel (Constantine) and you’re pretty damn near what I’m looking for in Joker. I’m interested in seeing what some mild voice modulation could do to a female performance from someone like Collette or Moss. I think a slightly unnatural voice would contribute to the surreal, unsettling element to Joker.

The more effeminate eccentricities that Joaquin added to his performance were my favorite parts of his performance. I’ve always viewed Joker as a very gender fluid and sexual person. I’m totally down for a more seductive Joker. We haven’t really dug deep enough into Joker’s sexuality. His true love is Batman, but he is more than willing to manipulate people’s desires and emotions to serve his will.

If they cast a woman as Joker, just refer to them with male pronouns and don’t talk about their gender too much. I am honestly starting to prefer this idea. ASHOSE Joker should be the foundation. Morrison was very into the idea of a sexually charged Joker, and this could be the “in” for a new actor taking on the role. The part has been reinvented so many times but there are still some key aspects to the character that can be exploited yet.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I find that unless they're being truly emotional instead of delivering "kewl" monologues like "I am the one who will keep you up at night, because I will NEVER allow you to do (x)", the acting is cringey to me. Being hammy doesn't work unless it elicits a fearful reaction from people, like Tuco Salamanca or Joker in Arkham Origins for instance.

Go ahead, sue me, and it's probably not my place to say because I haven't seen a ton of her movies, but I'm not sure if I get the hype around Meryl Streep. Maybe it's because the popularity ruins her for me, but I always get "Broadway" vibes from her, like she hams it up in everything. I'm not really sure if I get the hype around Kiefer Sutherland either, at least Kiefer Sutherland NOW. I remember him being great in Lost Boys, but otherwise he always plays the "bAdAsS wHo MaKeS tHe HarD cHoIcEs LiKe A BoSS". He's abysmal in that crappy Designated Survivor show on ABC.

Bryan Cranston and Giancarlo Esposito are the only actors who've made the "intimidating" thing work though off the top of my head.

I think Streep built a solid filmography early on, with films like Sophie's Choice, The Deer Hunter, Kramer vs. Kramer and A Cry In The Dark. She is a good actress, but I think these movies probably cemented her as a big time actress, and that's probably true of a lot of actors. What I appreciate about her is she doesn't typically phone it in, the same of which can't be said about a lot of established actors.

I agree with you on Kiefer, that his best days were in the 80's/90's, when he typically played a heel. His role in Stand By Me is particularly great, since that's a role that could easily have been hammy, but he plays the character with understated menace.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Lol Mad Men and Her Smell are like two totally different people

Or Top of the Lake. My personal favourite Moss performance.

 

[shauner111]

Like I said, when she plays darker roles. I’m not talking about Mad Men or Get Him To The Greek. I don’t like fancasting actors where you know what you’re going to get from them.

Casting a woman to play Joker is just some pretend woke b.s. I will literally skip the cinema and casually catch that sequel online months later because I’ll know for sure that the decision was made just to suck up to that “James Bond could be played by a woman!” crowd.