The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Eddie Dean]

We often talk about a Bowie inspired Joker, but is there an actor out there that has his looks and charisma? I can't think of any (and please don't say Tilda Swinton).

The answer is Robert Pattinson.

 

[Art Vandelay]

But I'm talking more about someone that has Bowie like looks. Conrad Veidt is a name that gets tossed around when it comes to inspiration, and Bowie, despite his handsomeness, could look terrifying when he grinned. All without prosthetics.

In terms of star appeal, though, Harry Styles probably is his closest modern equivalent. In terms of looks, though, would he be menacing enough?

 

[Eddie Dean]

 

[AndyTrevino]

But I'm talking more about someone that has Bowie like looks. Conrad Veidt is a name that gets tossed around when it comes to inspiration, and Bowie, despite his handsomeness, could look terrifying when he grinned. All without prosthetics.

In terms of star appeal, though, Harry Styles probably is his closest modern equivalent. In terms of looks, though, would he be menacing enough?

I might be way off the mark, but when I see pictures of Bowie's Jokerish grin, with the slightly crooked teeth and "smile indents" I keep seeing him:

 

[Mindreaper21]

But I'm talking more about someone that has Bowie like looks. Conrad Veidt is a name that gets tossed around when it comes to inspiration, and Bowie, despite his handsomeness, could look terrifying when he grinned. All without prosthetics.

In terms of star appeal, though, Harry Styles probably is his closest modern equivalent. In terms of looks, though, would he be menacing enough?

With a good makeup team and the right direction, yes. Look at what it did for Heath.

 

[AndyTrevino]

But as we saw at the funeral scene, the fashion aesthetic of this film is NOT that grounded. Reeves is using the campy, over the top real world styles of the 1980s to make the theatrical aesthetic of the comics grounded. I think the example of Gordon Gecko or any of the New Wave rock stars is a good example of how a very theatrical Joker can look of this world.

I can kinda see it with the designer outfit that Selina's wearing; is that basically what you're talking about? For that matter, I guess Gordon kinda counts as well.

At any rate, I kinda feel like a mixture of modern and vintage is definitely the way to go for Joker, much like that oversized blue 80s blazer BigBatTheory and I are pushing for. After all, Phoenix's grounded take was plenty colorful, so why can't this version do the same?

 

[AndyTrevino]

My thought: split the difference with some of your comments. Have a Joker of mysterious origin show up, but then lean heavily into the "dark mirror" angle. He's not just Batman's moral opposite, in many ways he's the anti-Batman: a brilliant obsessive polymath bringing to bare a vast array of skills and resources to enact changes upon the city. Only, since his founding morality is "amoral nihilism", the changes he is trying to enact are "Make the city a more anarchic land of crime and corruption, so I can sit as its king and do whatever I whim". He's not trying to sell some ideological point to the general public ( ala the Ledger Joker ), he's just trying to make the place more suited to his own use.

Perhaps have a scene with an almost literal "Joker cave", showing him having assembled his tools and gadgets, zany conspiracy boards across which he's plotted out his plans, stuff like that. Also, and this would probably be controversial: have him get committed to Arkham on being caught, and make clear that this is *deliberate* on his part. He's *not* insane, not in any criminal sense, he simply *chooses* to go there for reasons of his own ( facilitated via a mix of acting skills and corruption of the system ).

Not totally sure about his craziness being an act entirely, but I definitely agree with the rest of the characterization.

I've mainly thought of The Joker as a psychopathic hedonist. His nihilism COULD be a testament to that in a way, thriving on violent self-indulgence for its own sake. He enjoys having power over others and WOULD definitely enjoy being at the top of a city-turned-territorial-gangland IMHO.

 

[shauner111]

Jared Leto is today’s Bowie if I’m gonna be honest.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Jared Leto is today’s Bowie if I’m gonna be honest.

In terms of style and the way he carries himself, I guess. I would've suggested him but didn't for obvious reasons.
What'd you think of that photo I tagged you in? Pretty neat, huh?

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Jared Leto is today’s Bowie if I’m gonna be honest.

In a very, very superficial way. Not denying he could play a Bowie-esque persona (though he'd be bad casting as Bowie himself, not because he's a bad actor but just because I don't think he could do Bowie the person terribly well) but I don't think he's a particularly similar figure as a performer.

 

[metaphysician]

Honestly, I think its a blind alley to focus on trying to make the Joker grotesque. The Joker doesn't really need to be grotesque, and IMO, is better if he *isn't* grotesque. He needs to be *creepy* and *unsettling*, but those are very different things than "looks like an escapee from a freak show". Looking ugly is looking ugly, and not worth nearly as much as that cold shiver from the lizard part of your brain realizing you are in the presence of a predator that might think you tasty.

( Yes, there are various notable stories where the Joker is drawn in an art style that is grotesque. Most of these are stories where the art style makes *everyone* grotesque. )

 

[Eddie Dean]

I think it might be even better if Reeve's Joker is squeaky clean and bright primary colors. Make him really pop out in this world.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Honestly, I think its a blind alley to focus on trying to make the Joker grotesque. The Joker doesn't really need to be grotesque, and IMO, is better if he *isn't* grotesque. He needs to be *creepy* and *unsettling*, but those are very different things than "looks like an escapee from a freak show". Looking ugly is looking ugly, and not worth nearly as much as that cold shiver from the lizard part of your brain realizing you are in the presence of a predator that might think you tasty.

( Yes, there are various notable stories where the Joker is drawn in an art style that is grotesque. Most of these are stories where the art style makes *everyone* grotesque. )

I guess that's fair. The times where I'm REALLY not okay with him being grotesque is when it's done at the expense of his facial expressiveness, like cutting his lips off to make it look like he's always smiling or trying to make him look like Jeff The Killer.

But I think that, to an extent, he SHOULD look rather creepy or ugly.

 

[AndyTrevino]

I think it might be even better if Reeve's Joker is squeaky clean and bright primary colors. Make him really pop out in this world.

I'd personally like a mixture of subdued and colorful, but I'd be fine if he was mostly colorful. That's where some more 80s-inspired suits could come in, like he gets most of his clothing from a thrift store, second-hand department stores, or really cheap outlets.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Andy, that's the opposite of what I was saying.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Andy, that's the opposite of what I was saying.

How so? Just look at Bowie.

Sorry, just realized you meant the whole thrift store thing. But that's not really a reason for them to look dirty, per se. Maybe he irons them or something like that. Easy peasy lemon squeezy

 

[Eddie Dean]

I said he should be squeaky clean and you're like "Yeah, he should buy used clothes!"

 

[WatchProtect]

 

[AndyTrevino]

I said he should be squeaky clean and you're like "Yeah, he should buy used clothes!"

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm thinking more along the lines of this than, like, Goodwill

 

[AndyTrevino]

View attachment 38797

I've said this before, but if they don't wanna use the purple suit for whatever reason, then use the War of Jokes and Riddles getup. Even so, he could wear both.

 

[Art Vandelay]

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm thinking more along the lines of this than, like, Goodwill

View attachment 38798

Ironically, the Goodwill is the place where you'd likely find such an out of style suit.

 

[WatchProtect]

Pardon the crudeness but I'd love a suspenders look for Him, something more casual

 

[WatchProtect]

 

[AndyTrevino]

Ironically, the Goodwill is the place where you'd likely find such an out of style suit.

I was honestly coming from more of like, super dingy clothing that you'd find in a lost & found; I highly doubt The Joker would be THAT desperate anyways.

At any rate though, I don't think him wearing out of style suits would be terrible, as the character's always sort of had that timeless quality. I think you've even said yourself that his schtick feels like it's from an earlier time period and how certain aspects of his design feel like they're from a bygone era.

 

[AndyTrevino]

View attachment 38799 Pardon the crudeness but I'd love a suspenders look for Him, something more casual

It feels very incomplete without a jacket.