Justice League The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 46

[Micromind]

It's not even the Studio who is responsible for majority of the current mess, just the top boss.

 

[Reel-Man]

By the way you guys got Tivo'd. The usual suspects calling you "salty" (Flint Marko). I know you guys are reading this.

 

[MbJ]

Not a bad one. A terrible one. Alienate your core consumer base and your business will crash and burn 10 times out of 10.

That usually only holds true when your core consumer base was as profitable as you needed/wanted to begin with. There was already a pretty steep drop down from the box office of the Nolan Batman films from just a few years prior, and the dip in JL's opening weekend would indicate quite a few people who saw BVS weren't interested in continuing any further.

The brand has been tarnished and now they need to win people back. Which is why a successful Aquaman and Shazam are crucial right now.

 

[idiot09]

That usually only holds true when your core consumer base was as profitable as you needed/wanted to begin with. There was already a pretty steep drop down from the box office of the Nolan Batman films from just a few years prior, and the dip in JL's opening weekend would indicate quite a few people who saw BVS weren't interested in continuing any further.

The brand has been tarnished and now they need to win people back. Which is why a successful Aquaman and Shazam are crucial right now.

Not really. The existing audience was obviously not enough for them, but the idea is not to alienate all of them and go chasing a different crowd, when others are already doing it better. You build on what you have, and extend that, rather than put out a cheap knockoff of something better(by doing so WB did the worse thing possible, alienate the existing fanbase, and not win over new people either). Also I think its unfair to compare it to Chris Nolan's movies...guy is one of the best filmmakers working right now, with huge popularity. His name alone is a huge pull. Him doing Batman cannot be compared with a new Batman with a controversial casting choice under a director the GA doesnt know off and which is not part of an existing franchise or a sequel to a highly succesful movie.

Anyway...thats besides the point. Point is, pissing off your major fanbase is a dumb move. The aim is to build on it, like Wonder Woman did. That movie impressed their core fanbase, and brought in new people. Hopefully the new movies can too.

 

[GothamBat]

Not really. The existing audience was obviously not enough for them, but the idea is not to alienate all of them and go chasing a different crowd, when others are already doing it better. You build on what you have, and extend that, rather than put out a cheap knockoff of something better(by doing so WB did the worse thing possible, alienate the existing fanbase, and not win over new people either). Also I think its unfair to compare it to Chris Nolan's movies...guy is one of the best filmmakers working right now, with huge popularity. His name alone is a huge pull. Him doing Batman cannot be compared with a new Batman with a controversial casting choice under a director the GA doesnt know off and which is not part of an existing franchise or a sequel to a highly succesful movie.

Anyway...thats besides the point. Point is, pissing off your major fanbase is a dumb move. The aim is to build on it, like Wonder Woman did. That movie impressed their core fanbase, and brought in new people. Hopefully the new movies can too.

Hear, hear.

 

[MbJ]

Also I think its unfair to compare it to Chris Nolan's movies...guy is one of the best filmmakers working right now, with huge popularity. His name alone is a huge pull. Him doing Batman cannot be compared with a new Batman with a controversial casting choice under a director the GA doesnt know off and which is not part of an existing franchise or a sequel to a highly succesful movie.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Batman v. Superman was a billion dollar idea easily. If past Batman movies could hit that marker, then surely the historic first cinematic meeting of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman could have done the same. That it didn't, and that it had a historic second week dropoff, would indicate that many audiences members went in super hyped for the film, but didn't end up liking it enough to encourage repeat viewing. I think had it been a better received product, it easily could've broken a billion.

That was my initial point. There's clearly a much larger audience pool out there that WB wants to reach, but has failed to get so far.

 

[Jekecy]

The Nolan brand didn't really come into fruition for most of his Batman run. It wasn’t until after the back-to-back gargantuan successes of TDK and Inception where people started recognizing his presence. So only TDKR benefitted from his name (if at all).

 

[_Superman_]

The Nolan brand didn't really come into fruition for most of his Batman run. It wasn’t until after the back-to-back gargantuan successes of TDK and Inception where people started recognizing his presence. So only TDKR benefitted from his name (if at all).

And TDK also benefitted from Ledger's death. People tend to over look that a portion of that money came from people who wanted to see the role that as rumors had it drove a man crazy and to his death.

 

[Polux]

Found this on twitter.



Fans: And who will decide which films get reshot @wbpictures ? You?

You abandoned the principles that bound us together. You've taken up the sword against your own people. I will honor the studio you once were, not this monster you’ve become.

I just love this sorta thing t:

 

[idiot09]

The Nolan brand didn't really come into fruition for most of his Batman run. It wasn’t until after the back-to-back gargantuan successes of TDK and Inception where people started recognizing his presence. So only TDKR benefitted from his name (if at all).

Absolutely agreed. I think it was TDK that was what pushed him into that zone. But like TDK is the best CBM of all time, and TDKR is its sequel, these are movies that ARE always going to make a ton of money and deservedly so. What I'm saying is, that doesnt necessarily make Batman a billion dollar character, when Nolan is not behind the screen and Bale is not donning the cowl. But that's just a guess on my part, I have no strong feelings either way.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Batman v. Superman was a billion dollar idea easily.

I never refuted or implied this wasnt so. I literally said in my post that obviously they were not making as much money as they wanted to.

There's clearly a much larger audience pool out there that WB wants to reach, but has failed to get so far.

Again, nobody is denying that. What people are saying, and which is the point here, is to try to get to that audience pool, is not by burning all the audience you already have, but by ADDING to that. WW did that, JL did not.

And TDK also benefitted from Ledger's death. People tend to over look that a portion of that money came from people who wanted to see the role that as rumors had it drove a man crazy and to his death.

But that doesnt take away from the fact that its arguably the best CBM of all time.

 

[Limonade]

What people are saying, and which is the point here, is to try to get to that audience pool, is not by burning all the audience you already have, but by ADDING to that. WW did that, JL did not.

That's difficult to juggle when you have people who enjoyed the crap out of Snyder's work--and other people who loathed it and felt it ruined the spirit of the characters.

You'll have people, on either side of the spectrum, that'll stop watching it on principle alone, regardless.

It's quite a "damn if you do and damn if you don't" situation that the WB/DC team put themselves in.

 

[Erzengel]

Again, nobody is denying that. What people are saying, and which is the point here, is to try to get to that audience pool, is not by burning all the audience you already have, but by ADDING to that. WW did that, JL did not.

What if that wasn't possible? What if it was either the JL that we got or Snyder's JL that only satisfied the audience they already had? I understand that at least the fans they had would have been happy but film wise, JL would still not have been able to grow their fan base.

 

[idiot09]

You'll have people that'll stop watching it on principle alone, regardless.

Didnt stop people wanting to watch WW, when she was introduced in Snyder's movie. Most DCEU fans love Wonder Woman(I do). I dont think its too hard to strike a middle ground, because I dont think DCEU fans are any different from any other fanbase. Most of us, are also fans of DC characters in other mediums, and are familiar with the characters in different iterations.

You know why people loved WW? Because it respected the character, it was entertaining, and it was Jenkin's vision for the film. We didnt expect it to be anyone else's and it was not sold as such. Fans felt cheated by JL, because it was meant to be the final film of the trilogy, while they made every f-ing attempt to make it everything but. Similarly we dont expect Shazam to be a Zack Snyder movie, and we wont hate it because its not. We want it to be told from David F Sandberg's perspective. Similarly for JL, we wanted Zacks final part of the trilogy, and that's why the fans were not happy(nvm what we got wasnt that good either).

Most of us are just happy with a movie that's entertaining, respects the characters, and is earnest. What we dont like is when we are lied to and deceived.

 

[idiot09]

What if it was either the JL that we got or Snyder's JL that only satisfied the audience they already had?

We will never know will we?

But we know this. They were already trying to reach a wider audience with a lighter tone with JL. So it was never going to be exactly like the previous movies. So a new audience was certainly possible.

So I think instead of the major 180, a more sensible shift would have been far better. WW did so very well. And considering WB nearly overhauled the film, I cant believe that was not possible either. It was, and they chose not to, which has lead to the world possible outcome.

 

[Limonade]

Didnt stop people wanting to watch WW, when she was introduced in Snyder's movie. Most DCEU fans love Wonder Woman(I do). I dont think its too hard to strike a middle ground, because I dont think DCEU fans are any different from any other fanbase. Most of us, are also fans of DC characters in other mediums, and are familiar with the characters in different iterations.

You know why people loved WW? Because it respected the character, it was entertaining, and it was Jenkin's vision for the film. We didnt expect it to be anyone else's and it was not sold as such. Fans felt cheated by JL, because it was meant to be the final film of the trilogy, while they made every f-ing attempt to make it everything but. Similarly we dont expect Shazam to be a Zack Snyder movie, and we wont hate it because its not. We want it to be told from David F Sandberg's perspective. Similarly for JL, we wanted Zacks final part of the trilogy, and that's why the fans were not happy(nvm what we got wasnt that good either).

Most of us are just happy with a movie that's entertaining, respects the characters, and is earnest. What we dont like is when we are lied to and deceived.

ehhh... I see your point.

You'll just have the Snyder-fans having a real cow over what WB ended up presenting in the end.

However, if a page one rewrite was done, all that moaning and groaning from Snyder fans would have been very minor, especially if, like you said, the movie is entertaining and respects the character and is earnest.

 

[Erzengel]

We will never know will we?

But we know this. They were already trying to reach a wider audience with a lighter tone with JL. So it was never going to be exactly like the previous movies. So a new audience was certainly possible.

So I think instead of the major 180, a more sensible shift would have been far better. WW did so very well. And considering WB nearly overhauled the film, I cant believe that was not possible either. It was, and they chose not to, which has lead to the world possible outcome.

Yeah but I think that's more Jenkins than Snyder, personally. I'm not going to say if left to his own devices, JL would have been worse off. But, I just don't think for "Justice League" he could have put it to that $1B level, fan accepted movie. However, you're right, we'll never know.

 

[GothamBat]

 

[idiot09]

Yeah but I think that's more Jenkins than Snyder, personally. I'm not going to say if left to his own devices, JL would have been worse off. But, I just don't think for "Justice League" he could have put it to that $1B level, fan accepted movie. However, you're right, we'll never know.

Forget $1B, atleast it might just have gotten fans behind it, and have even the nay sayers say "okay that was decent, now onwards". What we have now is something no one is willing to defend, not the fans, not even the creators.

Just a messy situation all around. Which could have been easily avoided.

ehhh... I see your point.

You'll just have the Snyder-fans having a real cow over what WB ended up presenting in the end.

However, if a page one rewrite was done, all that moaning and groaning from Snyder fans would have been very minor, especially if, like you said, the movie is entertaining and respects the character and is earnest.

TBH, I see a lot of fans being angry at WB right now.

Most of us are DC fans. Some of us got introduced to these characters from the comics, some of us through TAS(like me), some throught the Nolan movies. Some even through these Snyder movies. Just because we like a particular creator's take on these characters(like I do with Nolan or Snyder) doesnt mean we dont respect other versions or dont like anything other than that tbh. Its just that we respect these creators and love their work, and want to see more of it. Right now some fans are getting behind Snyder because he has put out work that they have enjoyed and we feel he was doing stuff right. And it would be the same for any other creator. Its meaningless to create divides where there exist none. We all want good movies.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[kingcharmingman]

I just saw Justice League Scene Studies,

In WW rescue montages, it think maybe after WW deflect all bullets, she ran out of time and the bomb was going to explode.

So she crossed her hands and create a massive energy to deflect the explosion thus save all hostages but the terrorist leader killed by his own bomb (in trailer obviously bomb exploded in the building and in the montages there isn't any scene that indicate WW handling or throwing the bomb).

Is it why they did the reshoots so there will be no apparent death in front of children hostages?
Who knows....

 

[kingcharmingman]

What we saw in the featurette was an extra 2 or 3 seconds but there was probably more. Why cut those 2 extra seconds? Who was the editor on this movie and what were his directives? "Make sure it's as forgettable, generic and unimpressive as possible so people will mistake it for an MCU movie"?

I think that guy already fired,
The others were demoted.

 

[matt47]

Wow. Just wow.

TBH I was very unimpressed by the WW fight sequence. And it wasnt just the trash music, the fight choreography didnt have the oomph Snyder's fights usually have either. So I was surprised and disappointed, and was wondering if he kinda lost his touch there a bit.

**** no. That stunt rehearsal looked ****ing awesome, and with the proper WW theme, would have been 100x better than the film. Shouldn't have doubted Zack.




Absolutely. So far cut action scenes we know :

-Atlanteans vs Parademons
-Extended Tunnel Fight
-Extended League vs Superman fight
-Almost entire Final fight

The only fight scene that remained quite close to Zack's intentions were the Themyscera invasion, and that was the best action scene.

I really hated the sound effects for the slow motion in the WW fight scene too. Sounded so stupid.

 

[Reel-Man]

This is awesome!

[YT]odNuXzHwnas[/YT]

 

[_Superman_]

It's a shame what they did to this movie.

 

[GothamBat]

Mr Wayne