Justice League The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 46

[kguillou]

I watched some of the scene studies, say what you will about the man, but it is plainly evident that the cast, crew and production team all genuinely loved Zack and were onboard with his vision and directing. I've heard people say Zack's not a "actor's director" but from what I see from the BTS footage, they all had a blast working with the guy and respect him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I watched some of the scene studies, say what you will about the man, but it is plainly evident that the cast, crew and production team all genuinely loved Zack and were onboard with his vision and directing. I've heard people say Zack's not a "actor's director" but from what I see from the BTS footage, they all had a blast working with the guy and respect him.

Having fun working on the film does not translate to the director getting the desired performance out of his actors. Kubrick was a nightmare to work with a lot of the time, but he knew what he was doing.

 

[kingcharmingman]

It is sad how those featurettes show Snyder directing, but the final theatrical product was not fully his design.

It's kinda like putting all the burden in his shoulder.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He did that to himself with Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman and whatever he filmed for Justice League.

 

[idiot09]

Mr Wayne

Affleck is just such a perfect Bruce Wayne. Oh how he was wasted with all the reshoots.

I mean this is the best JL Batman pic I've seen.

 

[Faora]

 

[Willi Berg]

Absolutely. So far cut action scenes we know :

-Atlanteans vs Parademons
-Extended Tunnel Fight
-Extended League vs Superman fight
-Almost entire Final fight

The only fight scene that remained quite close to Zack's intentions were the Themyscera invasion, and that was the best action scene.

Yes that had Zack Snyder's stamp all over it. And it was awesome.

 

[GothamBat]

 

[idiot09]

Someone said this on reddit :

Part of the reason I vouch for the the Flash we got in BvS and not the one in JL. BvS Flash looked like he'd crack open a cold one and then take your girl on a date. JL Flash was the cold one.

he was cracking open a drink at the store while he dropped it apprehended a thief and got back to the drink before it fell a centimeter!! cut to awkwardly tripping over steps, women and not knowing east or (iris)west in JL! even in suicide squad he was cool while getting boomerang!

That's true. I'm pretty sure in the original cut, he was far more competent and smart.

Also this pic, man. All of them look so good. Batfleck looks exactly how I always pictured Batman would look beside the JL.

 

[GothamBat]

Right? Whedon made him such a noob. According to the VFX guy who's proven to be legit, Barry punched rocks out of the way at superspeed to save the hostages in the tunnel fight. As well as messing up parademons like nobody's business. A far cry from what we got. Which is him spending the whole sequence being scared ****less, needing pep talks and acting like it was the first time he had ever superhero'd in his life. Thwarting armed robbers was just another tuesday night for him in BVS and SS.

He was inconsistently characterized even just in JL alone. Before the tunnel fight he's scared out of his mind about engaging aliens in combat but by the end of the movie... (Like what? 1 day after the tunnel fight?) He's entering a hazardous, alien infested nuclear plant and dispatching parademons left and right like it's no big deal.

 

[Micromind]

"I'm afraid of bugs and guns and obnoxiously tall people.."

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

You know what I really hated regarding Flash's tunnel fight was him just standing there, then getting shot in the leg, screaming like a punk, then getting carried away while screaming like a punk.

 

[Consona]

"I'm afraid of bugs and guns and obnoxiously tall people.."

“Jesus, he is tall.”

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[idiot09]

Would have loved to see that!

 

[HellYeah]

That Mother-Son dynamic thoo...where was it???

 

[heatvision38]

That Mother-Son dynamic thoo...where was it???

During the Oedipal scene.

 

[matt47]

"I'm afraid of bugs and guns and obnoxiously tall people.."

The guns one really pissed me off.
YOU ARE WANTING TO BE A ****ING FORENSIC SCIENTIST.

 

[Polux]

Remember the Barry that stood up to the big guy when he went to visit his dad?? Yeah, I miss that guy....

Now I'm not saying that Zack's Barry was a completely different character, it wasn't, but Joss made him into a "too much" part; via Ezra's performance, Barry obviously deals with anxiety (which is amplified byt this particular pickle they find themselves into) but he deals with that by trying to overcompensate with confidence, not the overbearing kind, mind you, but it's a simple "won't let you see me break down" type of body language (which you can see in his first encounter with Bruce, the security footage from BvS, the SS cameo, the aforementioned prison scene, etc); despite his fear, inexperience and hesitation, his heroic nature shines through; my favorite single moment, the complete look of determination and lack of hesitation when he starts his run to face Superman in the memorial site.

Again, I'm not saying it ruined the character, but I feel that Joss looked at that and went "quirkier!! QUIRKIER!!!!" and instead of understanding the why and the emotional mechanisms of the character (as constructed by Zack/Ezra/Terrio) he went for the more superficial (and honestly, easy to get for the masses) approach to the character but sadly ended up making him, again, "too much".

While all of this is mostly assumption based on observation, I believe it to be the result of a lack of unified vision in the final product; hopefully that problem won't be present in future appearances by the character.

 

[HellYeah]

Remember the Barry that stood up to the big guy when he went to visit his dad?? Yeah, I miss that guy....

Now I'm not saying that Zack's Barry was a completely different character, it wasn't, but Joss made him into a "too much" part; via Ezra's performance, Barry obviously deals with anxiety (which is amplified byt this particular pickle they find themselves into) but he deals with that by trying to overcompensate with confidence, not the overbearing kind, mind you, but it's a simple "won't let you see me break down" type of body language (which you can see in his first encounter with Bruce, the security footage from BvS, the SS cameo, the aforementioned prison scene, etc); despite his fear, inexperience and hesitation, his heroic nature shines through; my favorite single moment, the complete look of determination and lack of hesitation when he starts his run to face Superman in the memorial site.

Again, I'm not saying it ruined the character, but I feel that Joss looked at that and went "quirkier!! QUIRKIER!!!!" and instead of understanding the why and the emotional mechanisms of the character (as constructed by Zack/Ezra/Terrio) he went for the more superficial (and honestly, easy to get for the masses) approach to the character but sadly ended up making him, again, "too much".

While all of this is mostly assumption based on observation, I believe it to be the result of a lack of unified vision in the final product; hopefully that problem won't be present in future appearances by the character.

Right on. I actually liked that scene where he draws on that big guy's face. Was it Whedon's or Snyder's?

 

[kguillou]

I just do not understand why Joss HAD to insert little clips here and there into scenes like the "what is brunch?" or Mamoa's weird reaction shot in him and Bruce's talk at the beginning? I can understand wanting to insert whole dialogue scenes he directed but what the Hell did those little Whedon clips here and there add? Seemed like a massive waste of time and made the movie look like a mess.

 

[GothamBat]

The guns one really pissed me off.
YOU ARE WANTING TO BE A ****ING FORENSIC SCIENTIST.

And he's thwarted gun-wielding robbers with self-assurance and ease

 

[idiot09]

Remember the Barry that stood up to the big guy when he went to visit his dad?? Yeah, I miss that guy....

Now I'm not saying that Zack's Barry was a completely different character, it wasn't, but Joss made him into a "too much" part; via Ezra's performance, Barry obviously deals with anxiety (which is amplified byt this particular pickle they find themselves into) but he deals with that by trying to overcompensate with confidence, not the overbearing kind, mind you, but it's a simple "won't let you see me break down" type of body language (which you can see in his first encounter with Bruce, the security footage from BvS, the SS cameo, the aforementioned prison scene, etc); despite his fear, inexperience and hesitation, his heroic nature shines through; my favorite single moment, the complete look of determination and lack of hesitation when he starts his run to face Superman in the memorial site.

Again, I'm not saying it ruined the character, but I feel that Joss looked at that and went "quirkier!! QUIRKIER!!!!" and instead of understanding the why and the emotional mechanisms of the character (as constructed by Zack/Ezra/Terrio) he went for the more superficial (and honestly, easy to get for the masses) approach to the character but sadly ended up making him, again, "too much".

While all of this is mostly assumption based on observation, I believe it to be the result of a lack of unified vision in the final product; hopefully that problem won't be present in future appearances by the character.

Exactly. Which is why I always smile when I hear someone say Zack doesnt get these characters, compared to say someone else or the fans.

I mean where was that Barry that apprehended criminals with confidence, that Barry we saw in Suicide Squad saying "No honor among thieves eh?" .

I just do not understand why Joss HAD to insert little clips here and there into scenes like the "what is brunch?" or Mamoa's weird reaction shot in him and Bruce's talk at the beginning? I can understand wanting to insert whole dialogue scenes he directed but what the Hell did those little Whedon clips here and there add? Seemed like a massive waste of time and made the movie look like a mess.

Ego boost? Idk. I came to the conclusion a few days back after realising all the stuff that was cut in favor of the stuff kept it...nobody is that inept. Not Wb, not Whedon. I really smell foul here. I mean you cant tell me Joss didnt realise how ****ing out of place and laughable his additions were to those scenes, or his do-overs. And if he didnt, that's just sad. When he did complete scenes, those were atleast decent.

But all the stuff cut man...its like an intentional sabotage, as much as it doesnt make any sense.

 

[Polux]

Right on. I actually liked that scene where he draws on that big guy's face. Was it Whedon's or Snyder's?

Snyder's.

It's easy to tell because of the hair/wig...and the cinematography...and the "depth" in the composition of the shots (ok, that one maybe it's tricky, I'm not even sure if that's the right expression, it's just how I recognize it), or more clearly, as I put in my original post, because of Ezra's body language and air of confidence when playing the character.

If you think about it, pretty much all of them seem more immersed in the character during principal photography (except for Momoa, who was shooting Aquaman at the time, so it was easier for him to stay in character), which makes sense of course.

Exactly. Which is why I always smile when I hear someone say Zack doesnt get these characters, compared to say someone else or the fans.

I mean where was that Barry that apprehended criminals with confidence, that Barry we saw in Suicide Squad saying "No honor among thieves eh?" .

Scene shot by Snyder, btw, which is consistent with Barry's characterization in the JL scenes shot by him too.

Ego boost? Idk. I came to the conclusion a few days back after realising all the stuff that was cut in favor of the stuff kept it...nobody is that inept. Not Wb, not Whedon. I really smell foul here. I mean you cant tell me Joss didnt realise how ****ing out of place and laughable his additions were to those scenes, or his do-overs. And if he didnt, that's just sad. When he did complete scenes, those were atleast decent.

But all the stuff cut man...its like an intentional sabotage, as much as it doesnt make any sense.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug...

 

[Micromind]

Ego boost? Idk. I came to the conclusion a few days back after realising all the stuff that was cut in favor of the stuff kept it...nobody is that inept. Not Wb, not Whedon. I really smell foul here. I mean you cant tell me Joss didnt realise how ****ing out of place and laughable his additions were to those scenes, or his do-overs. And if he didnt, that's just sad. When he did complete scenes, those were atleast decent.

But all the stuff cut man...its like an intentional sabotage, as much as it doesnt make any sense.

I suspect Whedon was aware that someone wanted to subtly sabotage this movie, which is why he left. He must have realized that the intention was not to put the best movie out there but rather put an extremely watered down and generic movie.