The Last Defenders

[yenaled]

Looking forward to seeing Atlas.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Dude, Junta was awesome in the Crew. Not as cool as White Tiger, but he was definitely pretty badass. Will be interesting to see how he functions with this team, and why he's even on it.

Yeah, whatever. He sucked.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

As for Junta, he was created by Christopher Priest for his THE CREW series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(comics)

Aaahhh yeah, from The Crew. Been so long since I read that

 

[Dread]

I do know a bit about most of them, but I'm probably as unexcited as you for their arrival. Except Atlas. He's great. Junta was crap in The Crew and Paladin has never once been interesting to me in all the times I've seen him in comics. Hopefully, Colossus, She-Hulk, and/or Blazing Skull will stick around and these nubs are cast additions rather than cast changes.

Adding Atlas, the team now has THREE tankers of various degrees. She-Hulk is Class 100, Colossus around class 75-80 at best, and Atlas should be around Class 50-60 or so if we go by usual "grower" standards. He seems an odd choice for any team considering his powers (ionic + growing) have made him mentally unstable for stretches of time. Still, I guess each tanker has an advantage if written well. She-Hulk regenerates, and has some other side abilities, and her strength is endless with rage; Colossus has magic resistance; and Atlas will have reach advantages.

Paladin's always been kind of THERE to me in various stories. He comes in, does his job, maybe sometimes gets in a quip, and leaves. Professional. He also has the balls to run around in lavender body-armor and get more wins on his record than Wizard, who does likewise. Junta I never read, but he seems to have gravity powers and those are interesting.

I'm with you, Corp. I hope these fellas are ADDED to the team to bump the roster to 7, versus replacing anyone. I'm actually settled into Nighthawk, She-Hulk, Colossus and Blazing Skull for now if written well. Still, a shame we only have Jen on the team; whatta sausage fest.

Aaahhh yeah, from The Crew. Been so long since I read that

Been never, so we're even.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

It was really good. Sucked to see Rhodey at such a low point though.

 

[Dread]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=147252

Casey explains the #3 cover and solict, and I wonder whether he is pleased or pissed that the rug is out from under him. I mean, the first issue isn't even on the racks and we know come midway through the mini, Iron Man isn't pleased with the team. There really are no surprises anymore.

Anyway, according to Casey, he wants to keep the roster of the Defenders "fluid" and added these three are being "added" to the roster. He never said "replace". Still, I hope Colossus isn't replaced in the name of "fluidity". It sounds funny to read that from me considering the angst I made about him being even on the roster, but I have softened to it and see this mini as the first and last chance for Colossus to break out of his shell and finally, FINALLY become a dynamic and intimidating tanker character, vs. what he usually is show as. He deserves better. He deserves to be tough, damn it.

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0802/19/firsts.htm

Text-free 6 page preview of THE LAST DEFENDERS #1 with some pages we haven't seen before. Seeing the four of them seated around a table-for-seven justifies expanding the roster.

 

[Harlekin]

Dread, you should definitely read the Crew. Great series.

 

[chris moore]

Dunno why Colossus is on the first team line up. X-Men are generally sposed to be making a non-commital effort with the SHRA and the initiative. And although we are STILL waiting for Ast X-Men to wrap up so we dont fully know whats happening with Piotr and Kitty, the events of MC suggest he has plenty of places to go, what with travelling with Logan and Kurt.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm guessing Kitty dies. She hasn't been seen in anything from Messiah Complex on.

And, really, what's the big deal? He goes to Russia and then joins an Initiative team. With the X-Men broken up and likely to stay that way for a while, each X-Man gets to make their individual choice about what to do with their life from here on out. Joining an Initiative team seems about as valid as anything else to me.

 

[Darthphere]

Aaahhh yeah, from The Crew. Been so long since I read that

Marvel hasn't collected that have they? They need to go ahead do that along with collecting Priest's Black Panther run.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They've collected the first arc of Priest's BP. I have it. I'd definitely love to see them collect the rest of that, plus The Crew. Maybe more people could learn about Josiah and someone could use him in something new. It's a real shame to see him wasted in limbo.

 

[Anubis]

Adding Atlas, the team now has THREE tankers of various degrees. She-Hulk is Class 100, Colossus around class 75-80 at best, and Atlas should be around Class 50-60 or so if we go by usual "grower" standards. He seems an odd choice for any team considering his powers (ionic + growing) have made him mentally unstable for stretches of time. Still, I guess each tanker has an advantage if written well. She-Hulk regenerates, and has some other side abilities, and her strength is endless with rage; Colossus has magic resistance; and Atlas will have reach advantages.

Paladin's always been kind of THERE to me in various stories. He comes in, does his job, maybe sometimes gets in a quip, and leaves. Professional. He also has the balls to run around in lavender body-armor and get more wins on his record than Wizard, who does likewise. Junta I never read, but he seems to have gravity powers and those are interesting.

I'm with you, Corp. I hope these fellas are ADDED to the team to bump the roster to 7, versus replacing anyone. I'm actually settled into Nighthawk, She-Hulk, Colossus and Blazing Skull for now if written well. Still, a shame we only have Jen on the team; whatta sausage fest.



Been never, so we're even.

Atlas is actually Class 100 because of the Ionic Growth powers. He can get bigger than most and it's like if Wonder Man, with his 90 class strength, could grow to the size of a sky scrapper. Though they may neuter him in the explanation of just how they were able to shrink him back down after what happened to him at the end of the last run on T-Bolts.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sky scrappers are some tough mother****ing buildings.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Marvel hasn't collected that have they? They need to go ahead do that along with collecting Priest's Black Panther run.

It hasn't been collected yet. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

 

[Anubis]

Sky scrappers are some tough mother****ing buildings.

Not really, they mostly slap around bungalows.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I guess the split-levels are the ones you gotta watch out for.

 

[Dread]

Dread, you should definitely read the Crew. Great series.

The lack of a trade makes it more annoying that it should be. It comes highly recommended, you never know.

Dunno why Colossus is on the first team line up. X-Men are generally sposed to be making a non-commital effort with the SHRA and the initiative. And although we are STILL waiting for Ast X-Men to wrap up so we dont fully know whats happening with Piotr and Kitty, the events of MC suggest he has plenty of places to go, what with travelling with Logan and Kurt.

I'm guessing Kitty dies. She hasn't been seen in anything from Messiah Complex on.

And, really, what's the big deal? He goes to Russia and then joins an Initiative team. With the X-Men broken up and likely to stay that way for a while, each X-Man gets to make their individual choice about what to do with their life from here on out. Joining an Initiative team seems about as valid as anything else to me.

I commented a lot about this issue many pages into this topic. At first the placement of Colossus on this team threw me because it seemed very random. Out of all the X-Men, he is one who has NEVER left the X-Universe to intermingle with other books; even Gambit got out more. He has spent over 35 years as being the resident strong man of X-Men rosters and moving onto a team where he will be overpowered by She-Hulk (and now Atlas) seemed odd, the sort of move that, depending on writing, will either be brilliant or stupid. He's left the X-Men for various peroids but it seemed odd that he'd join Nighthawk's Inititaive team.

But now the shock is over with and I want to see how it goes. It could be a chance for him to increase his rep as a "strongman" and break out of this self-defeating shell he has been in with countless writers, even Whedon. Rogue and Gambit's relationship so defined them that they became shells of characters without it and needed the split for Rogue to at least try to reclaim some of her past oomph, and Piotr may need likewise after being revived to, basically, be the Angel to Kitty's Buffy, and nothing more (aside for beating Ord once and being Kitty's boyfriend, he hasn't done much in AXM). Casey has a real chance to boost Colossus here on TLD and I really hope he doesn't drop the boy. There's a steel bad-ass waiting to burst out.

Atlas is actually Class 100 because of the Ionic Growth powers. He can get bigger than most and it's like if Wonder Man, with his 90 class strength, could grow to the size of a sky scrapper. Though they may neuter him in the explanation of just how they were able to shrink him back down after what happened to him at the end of the last run on T-Bolts.

I see, I actually wasn't sure of Atlas' precise stats. That puts two tankers above Colossus' defined level (the last time it was stated clearly, he was 70-80 tons max, which would put him somewhat weaker than The Thing). However, past stories offered the fact that he is RESISTANT to magic, which is a HUGE advantage if the team battles a magical adversary (which, given how often the Defenders battled demons or other-dimensional magics, may be inevitable).

However, even A-List writers can forget Colossus' power details. I flipped through AXM #5 or so last night and got to the part where Colossus is describing being trapped in that lab room, until Ord would "gas" him to put him to sleep for more experiments (while he was presumably in metal form, pounding on the doors). One problem; Colossus doesn't need to breathe in his metal form; he is immune to being gassed. Or should be. So was that a "um, Breakworld gas is superior to Earthling gases" No-Prize or did Whedon do what most writers do, assume all Colossus is is a big metal guy who throws Wolverine and occasionally punches something, and that is it?

Hopefully Casey does his homework. When you have more than one tanker on a team long enough, you need to play upon the unique strengths of each individual and show why they are a vital cog, otherwise the weakest tanker is simply worthless. And no superhero team wants a member that seems worthless. Hence why writing teams is hardly easy.

 

[Vanguard07]

Collossus was in the 70-80 range when he first joined the X-men at roughly the age of 16. It's been stated numerous times that as an adult his strength has grown well into the 100+ levels.

Also he's one of the most durable "tank" type characters in all of marvel. That on top of his resistance to magic and his not needing to breath, certainly gives him some significant advantages over atlas or she-hulk.

 

[Dread]

Collossus was in the 70-80 range when he first joined the X-men at roughly the age of 16. It's been stated numerous times that as an adult his strength has grown well into the 100+ levels.

I always am surprised when the Marvel line these days is that Piotr was 16 when he joined the X-Men, as the art at the time made him look around 17-18 at least, and he always made a big deal about dating Kitty, who was 13 when she joined, because she was too young. Got to love that "sliding scale" for time.

The current Handbooks are vague a lot when it comes to noting many characters' strength classes and they rarely seem to note him in the 100+ bars in those grids. I know sometimes they are bunk but it is irksome that if this is Marvel's idea of his strength class, they don't make it official. If he is class 100 or over, say so, Handbook people. It isn't a big deal.

Also he's one of the most durable "tank" type characters in all of marvel. That on top of his resistance to magic and his not needing to breath, certainly gives him some significant advantages over atlas or she-hulk.

I don't know about that, he's seemed to get TKO'd an aweful lot compared to a lot of other "tanker" characters. He's battled the Hulk twice and both times he put up utterly lackluster performances. I mean the Thing always loses to Hulk too, but he gives it more gusto. When people think of Colossus power moments, they can hardly come up with anything besides AXM #5 that happened within the last 15 years at least, and that is a shame. It needs to change.

She-Hulk regenerates, that alone is a large advantage. Her strength is endless due to rage, she has a partial Ovoid technique mastery to boot. If she fought Colossus by all paper accounts she should win. Even if they both are Class 100 to start, the madder she gets, the stronger she gets. It is a new thing for Colossus to be on a team where he ISN'T the strongest one on it, and how that is played may be interesting. Could the pressure of being the ONLY tanker on so many teams with the X-Men have made Colossus maybe "second guess" himself sometimes in a fight, and with some more tankers to "fall back" on he can cut loose some more? It depends on how it is played.

I don't indicate all this to tear Piotr down; I say it as a fan frustrated that out of all of Marvel's well known tankers he seemed to get the short end of the stick because he was stuck on a team that spent a long while at the lap of characters like Rogue, Wolverine, and Gambit. Many writers stuck him on the sidelines out of an inability to figure out much to do with him. Even Whedon noted that he found Colossus the most difficult to write (and as such he does little more than be Kitty's boyfriend).

(In addition to magical resistance and not needing to eat/breathe/sleep in metal form, he also has some sword skills learned from Nightcrawler. When was the last time anyone played THAT up? )

THE LAST DEFENDERS could be a great place for him to branch out if Casey runs with the ball.

 

[Blader5489]

Yu's cover for #3 is awful. Has he ever seen a human chin before?

 

[Dread]

Yu's cover for #3 is awful. Has he ever seen a human chin before?

Yu's art isn't what it used to be in the 90's for some reason, IMO.

 

[Doc Destruction]

I wish someone would write Colossus as tough as he should be. Whedon is coming close, at least.

 

[Dread]

I wish someone would write Colossus as tough as he should be. Whedon is coming close, at least.

Eh, I don't know. After beating down Ord in AXM #5, Colossus really hasn't done a whole lot, unless you count fighting Giganto alongside the Fantastic Four in I think AXM #7 or so. He's mostly been Kitty's boyfriend in that title. Whedon admitted in a WIZARD interview around when DANGER was shipping that he found Piotr the most rigid and thus hardest to write. Ord's the type of villain Whedon likes, the sort who is expected to be intimidating one second and comical the next, and while that works on TV, it doesn't work as well in comics, as at this point he simply comes off as a jobber. He can't even break Cyclops' neck without his armor. Lockheed pwned him. Who cares about Colossus' victory over him. "I am made OF RAGE!" was a great moment, but that was about 4 years ago. The big metal man needs much, much more.

Still, I guess considering other comics and appearences in 616 besides AXM, I suppose one could say that Whedon was coming "close".

Hopefully the Last Defenders provides it.

Anyway, for spits and giggles, I took some Marvel pictures created by an artist called RonnieThunderbolts who usually posts his work in www.superbuddies.com/forums (but he also posted some stuff in the AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE topic) of the various members of The Last Defenders to see what they look like. A few pages back, I basically lined up Colossus, Nighthawk, Blazing Skull and She-Hulk. This time I added Atlas, because he's the only one of these next 3 members that RT has drawn. Once again, I didn't create these, I just copied 'em and lined them up on paint. Ronnie gets full credit.

 

[Dread]

Newsarama posted another "Defenders Files" article with Joe Casey, this time about She-Hulk:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=147716

Apparently, Colossus will be last.

Naturally, Joe Casey says all the right things and my confidence in his ability here is growing. I actually hope this can become an OMEGA FLIGHT done right; that is, a mini that sells decently all the way through and becomes an ongoing, which it seems is what Casey may want. But we'll have to see. The direct market is horribly brutal to new or dusty franchises like this one. She-Hulk is arguably the most popular character on the book and even she can't sustain an audience beyond 40k for long. Colossus has been in books that sold well over 100k but rarely headlined them.

 

[Czar Colossus]

Hopefully this series will give Colossus a chance to really "Shine". I understand that there are inconsistencies that writers seem to have when it comes to Colossus, but he has been been described as one of the most powerful beings on earth more than a few times, so there is every reason for writers to write him that way. If the right writer so desires, his strength, stamina, and durability could reach any limits. As of late Whedon has come closest to showing his greatness. Unfortunately before that we have to go back to his very early confrontations with Juggernaut (Uncanny #102) or Gladiator (Uncanny #137). He did face off against She-Hulk once in Uncanny annual #7, it wasn't much of a fight, he just tossed her aside like she wasn't much more than a nuisance. This opportunity for him to explore opportunities outside the X-men could be the start of something great! This Colossus fan sure hopes so!