Hopefully this series will give Colossus a chance to really "Shine". I understand that there are inconsistencies that writers seem to have when it comes to Colossus, but he has been been described as one of the most powerful beings on earth more than a few times, so there is every reason for writers to write him that way. If the right writer so desires, his strength, stamina, and durability could reach any limits. As of late Whedon has come closest to showing his greatness. Unfortunately before that we have to go back to his very early confrontations with Juggernaut (Uncanny #102) or Gladiator (Uncanny #137). He did face off against She-Hulk once in Uncanny annual #7, it wasn't much of a fight, he just tossed her aside like she wasn't much more than a nuisance. This opportunity for him to explore opportunities outside the X-men could be the start of something great! This Colossus fan sure hopes so!
As a bump, Newsarama offered an official 6 page preview, with text this time, for THE LAST DEFENDERS #1, which hits shelves next week, with more from Joe Casey.
(Note that true to earlier interviews, Giffen is credited as a co-plotter and breakdowns for this issue and probably the next)
I particularly liked this exchange:
NRAMA: We’ll take your word for it. On the realistic side of things, since we've started talking with you about The Last Defenders, The Order - admittedly a kissing cousin to TLD has ended. Does/did that series end get anything more than an eyebrow raise from you?
JC: Unfortunately, I've been around long enough that a series ending prematurely doesn't illicit even that little of a reaction from me. It's certainly happened to me enough times. The downside is that I really think Marvel needs books like The Order... series that will never be in the Top Twenty but add a very cool flavor to the overall fabric of the Marvel Universe. That's whats always made Marvel so cool... for every Fantastic Four> or Amazing Spider-Man there was a Nick Fury, Agent Of S.H.I.E.L.D. or an Invaders or a Man-Thing, books that were more underground. Those second- and third-tier series have a place in the publishing plan. I'm a writer, not a businessman (or an editor), so the argument that they don't make enough money to justify their existence just doesn't have to fly with me. Let the accountants worry about that ****... I want my art!
Casey sure knows his history. I thought Eric Payne/Devil-Slayer was dead, but I guess not. The team also seems to be headlining New Jersey, and the line-up is more Iron Man's idea than Nighthawk's. Blazing Skull was part of the Initiative and so far, Colossus is...just there. But it's only 6 pages of issue #1.
Kyle and Stark hash over the recent past and I see how Kyle is meant to be the POV character of the series.
The artist is working off of Giffen's breakdowns and I wonder if that has a factor on anything. To me the colorist has dropped the ball; some of these pages looked better inked and in B & W than they did colored, least to me. Ms. Strain it ain't.
Blazing Skull looks a bit too goofy, but we've mentioned this before. Hopefully Colossus does more as a character besides pose and punch. There's got to be reason, motive, maybe even potential bonding with the others. I hope there's more to Casey picking him besides muscle and some token recognition.
Colossus was all disappointed with Russia and everything he's lost as a result of being an X-Man ([blackout]with Kitty counted among the latter in a "lulz, no surprise-ending for you, AXM!" move that, in fairness, Whedon and Cassaday deserve at this point[/blackout]) in this week's Uncanny X-Men. I wonder if that has anything to do with his becoming a Defender. It would be a nice, logical progression for him to try "legal" superheroics, with SHIELD and the CSA's endorsement ensuring he won't be discriminated against, as an alternative to the X-Men and returning home, both of which he's apparently disillusioned with.
Yeah, it has taken about 4 years of real time for Whedon & Cassaday to tell a "2 year story" so it is about time it had something spoiled for them in the name of benefiting writers & artists who care enough to get out a product on time. BUFFY is apparently the only title Whedon cared enough to make sure gets out on time, including by finding a faster artist(s), which is horribly egotistic. Plus, it wasn't like that "rumor" wasn't being presumed as fact about 2-4 months ago. It really is no surprise at this point. Hell, that rumor was debated about in the earlier pages of this very topic.
From what I scimmed, Colossus naturally feels the X-Men has been a downer on his life. Just about his entire family has died during his tenure on the team and some of that was because of him leaving Russia and the rep he got in America with the X-Men. Illyana's death caused him to quit the team outright and join Magneto, albeit not for long, and now she's back alive and he's seen her and all that. His semi-supervillain brother is in another dimension again. Considering he was usually an honest, aw-shucks guy who's been through a lot of crap, Piotr's probably justified in feeling bitter about the X-Men right now, after having the Mansion damaged or destroyed (again), Xavier seemingly dying (again) and the teaming being disbanded in the name of self-pity (AGAIN). Plus, Cyclops is putting out black ops teams to kill threats like X-Force (nicknamed "Team Stabby") and the soon-to-be Young X-Men, so the ideology of the team has grown darker, probably moreso than Piotr wants.
It seems odd to me that Colossus would go, "The X-Men are in yet another dark period and Russia is as corrupt and nasty as ever, so I will join the Initiative under Iron Man after they just fought a bitter internal war in which the result was good heroes being hunted and some villains getting federal badges." In a way it seems like trading a rock for a hard place. I suppose if you wanted to get purely technical the best place for Colossus would be trying to seek out his sister again now that he knows she's alive again (sorta), but that involves more magic stuff and isn't as heroic as joining a bold new team in Jersey.
I'm just hoping for more than the bare minimum with Colossus. That's all he's gotten for years and it was precisely that practice that made fan apathy for him grow and got the editorial board thinking they could sacrifice him to end the Legacy Virus story all those years ago.
Well said Dread; I think his death upset enough people to make the powers that be at Marvel realize that he is possibly more popular than they thought. Let's hope that all that untapped potential will begin to be addressed.
As for Last Defenders, what's up with Colossus' costume? Is that a new government issued uniform or just a bizarre rendering by the artist?
Well said Dread; I think his death upset enough people to make the powers that be at Marvel realize that he is possibly more popular than they thought. Let's hope that all that untapped potential will begin to be addressed.
As for Last Defenders, what's up with Colossus' costume? Is that a new government issued uniform or just a bizarre rendering by the artist?
Naturally the death of many B or C List characters will spark interest. THOR was selling 40k tops when he was killed in '04 and now his return is selling nearly three times that, even after the first arc. Lord knows all the Hawkeye lovers came out when Bendis offed him. But yeah, all the Colossus people came out when he went.
His return in AXM was a genuine surprise and got a lot of attention. The problem was after that...the ball was dropped. He shifted into Kitty's boyfriend and wasn't as much of a presence. The guy needs to be a force of nature. I mean this is TANKER 101.
The costume is probably a "bizarre rendering" from Giffen's breakdowns and Muniz's pencils. In other panels it looks like short-shorts, not speedo's for instance.
This roster placement is one of those things for Colossus that, depending on how it is handled by Casey in 6 issues, will either be one of those things where we say, "MAN, That shoulda been done ages ago!" or "Damn, they really dropped the ball there!" with little in-between. Hence some of my angsting about it. Not even Joss Whedon seems to care about doing a whole lot with Colossus more than once every half decade. His tenure on TLD may literally be his last chance in a while to break out of his funk.
Any thoughts on issue #1?
I liked it enough for a start. I'm a bit undecided on the art though; I wish McNiven did the interior as well as the cover. Judging by the profile in Newsrama I'd say Casey really likes Colossus a lot. I hope it shows in the story.
Funny you should ask, I posted a doozy at the B/T thread. Spoilers ahoy!
Dread said:
THE LAST DEFENDERS #1: After what has seemed like a half year of promo's, Newsarama interviews with Casey & Muniz as well as spoiler leaks and whatnot, the latest Marvel mini starring a team of B and C List superheroes has hit the stands. We have had a slew of such titles since the end of CIVIL WAR in early '07, both mini's and ongoings, an of course OMEGA FLIGHT, the poor little series that switched from one to the other and was killed in the womb despite very decent sales. THE LAST DEFENDERS is thus entering a crowded stage right now of superhero teams, and frankly quite a few of them have either not done well as mini's or were canceled (or on the verge of cancellation) as ongoings. Some people think this sort of thing has become overdone post-Initiative, but I don't mind it. I mean, isn't that what many of us geeks do for fun? Think of "our versions" of the Avengers/Defenders/Invaders/Fantastic Four/X-Men/Champions etc.? Or mish-mash our favorite heroes together and imagine them as teams? Half the fun of MARVEL: ULTIMATE ALLIANCE is doing that (the Masters of Evil will be no match for the combined forces of Spider-Man, Colossus, Iron Man and Moon Knight!). So I don't blame writers & editors for thinking along these lines sometimes. Especially if they can produce something good. And frankly most of the new team books post-CW have been decent to actually good in terms of quality, if not always sales.
Plus, SHH had an entire topic discussion devoted to TLD that has gone on well over 20 pages worth of posts. It'd feel cheap if I didn't overanalyze the hell out of this issue. My initial impressions? The cover has a quality that makes it look a bit "old school" and yet with the colors and trade dress, perhaps not appealing to the "mainstream" comic buyer. Casey's claim that this book was anti-decompression was true, as enough happens here to fill perhaps 2-3 issues of some other writer's stories, even with a cliffhanger. The art is good but not great, and the colorist Antonio Fabela dropped the ball in many places, as some pages and panels actually looked better in B&W inks. And finally, regardless of the quality of the actual issue, I forsee this book struggling to have a solid debut and maintain a healthy enough audience to provide for either a future ongoing or a sequel mini. Because Casey, not unlike Cebulski on THE LONERS, seems to see this mini as a 6 issue pitch for a series. Casey's a writer with a long history of hits and some misses, but in terms of hype he's hardly A-List. Muniz's work is best known on MKFF, and the irony of McNiven doing the cover as some critics judge him as a "McNiven Lite". The biggest creator name is Keith Giffen, who co-plotted and provided panel breakdowns for this issue and presumably the next (according to interviews) before DC offered that Exclusive Contract to him. And as cool as Giffen is, the last time he scored a Top 10 book was collaborating on 52 with Waid, Morrison, and Rucka. He worked on the last DEFENDERS mini, which was strictly comedy, with his JLI co-creators and that hardly blew the charts afire a few years back (and THAT story actually had the founding members in it: Dr. Strange, Namor, Hulk, and cameos by Silver Surfer). Suffice it to say, this is the sort of little team book that provides some chuckles, smashes and antics that will struggle to debut within the Top 50 and will be lucky to still be in the Top 100 by issue #6. I could be wrong and I'd be glad to be once the March Sales charts are in, but mainstream comic buyers and the economy make me skeptical. I mean, with a recession on, shops likely are not as willing to give unproven franchises a chance. THE DEFENDERS as a franchise hasn't sold well since the 70's, and was canceled as an ongoing in the mid 80's.
Taking aside stuff like market reality and all that, TLD is a fun superhero book. It has a sense of humor although that is not the core focus of the book. I guess what I could say is it offers fairly uncynical superhero action. The only real "cynic" on the team is She-Hulk, and she is convinced to join within 2 pages. The story starts with a squad of SHIELD agents investigating a terror-cell in New Jersey and being ambushed and seemingly slaughtered, save their leader, by the Sons of the Serpant. Nighthawk & Gargoyle, both members of the Camp Hammond Initiative (as seen in A:TI #10 this week, with the pair getting tossed by KIA in one panel each, which is more than Stingray got), take down the Brothers Grimm before they could blow something up. Nighthawk is eager to rebuild the Defenders as the Initiative is all about creating 50 superhero teams across the U.S., with some being "new" teams and others relaunches of older ones, such as Force Works. Casey described Kyle as "a poor man's Iron Man" but in some ways the character also comes off as a good POV character for knowledgable fans, as he offers up stuff that came up in MB debates, such as "why isn't [INSERT LONGTIME DEFENDER MEMBER HERE] on the roster?" and all that. Kyle wants to reform the team with Hellcat, Gargoyle and an amazingly-still-alive Devil-Slayer, but Iron Man has already one-upped him, and it seems that that is one of Stark's talents, putting someone "in charge" while making all of the critical decisions for them. We've seen it with Henry in THE ORDER and especially Ms. Marvel in MIGHTY AVENGERS (who is most likely a Skrull), and now we see it with Nighthawk. Considering NJ to be close enough to NY that it needs a "powerhouse" line-up, Blazing Skull and Colossus are on the squad, and the aforementioned She-Hulk is convinced to join later on.
I did much angsting about how Colossus would fare here and so far he is unremarkable; he isn't handled poorly, but is obviously the "token mutant". Neither Muniz, Giffen's breakdowns, or the colorist have tried to make him look awe-inspiring or astonishing (a panel later on where he deflects projectiles with his steel body almost looks like he's slipping on a bar of soap), and THAT is what has kept him from being a bad-ass, because he simply is never shown as one. See AXM #4, or the end of the Proteus Saga, or that bit with Riptide during Morlock Massacre, or Millar's run on Ult. XM, or hell, his cameo in X-MEN 2, to see easy examples of how to do it right, how to make him seem like a "damn, why the hell did he spend a decade as a background character!?" sort of X-Man. His reasoning for being on the team was, basically, "The X-Men are no-more and trusted parties told me this would be a worthy venue for my powers." I suppose that is the bare minimum; he always wanted to use his powers for the good of mankind and spent 97% of his history with the X-Men or Excaliber doing that, with a brief stint as an Acolyte. It just seems a little hollow as the X-Men obviously won't be disbanded for long and have disbanded about 100 times in the past before and always reorganize. It is like saying, "The X-Mansion is no more" every time it gets demolished (or, for that matter, "Magneto/Xavier are really dead"). That said, it IS only the first issue of six, and this IS Colossus' first foray into moving outside the X-Universe, where even Joss Whedon can't help but marginalize him. Casey's entitled to some time to make this work for him. It HAS to. It is too big an oppurtunity not to. Colossus debuted the same time as Storm & Nightcrawler and joined the X-Men the same time as Wolverine yet gets shafted in the comics and multi-media because no one knows how to write and depict him, they always underwhelm. He was chosen to die in 2000 because the editors felt he was a worthy sacrifice to end the Legacy Virus, and he stayed dead for 4 years. And not because he was Thor and Marvel wanted to "do it right", but because no one really gave a damn (or Joe Q's outdated and nonsensical even for the time, "dead is dead" rule of his early tenure). The only reason Joss gave a damn is because Piotr's the Angel to Kitty's Buffy. And he's done little of note since, aside for beat Ord once and get his arms broken by The Hulk. THE LAST DEFENDERS may literally be Colossus' last shot to crawl out of C-List status before the next "genius" decides that he's "worthy of a Hawkeye" again, which is a shock-value death. And who knows if he'd be back. After all, Rockslide is here and everyone seems to LOVE him around the offices...
As for the others, Blazing Skull comes off as more of a wisecracker than a cynical WWII hero, and the art makes him look too comical rather than scary. I am not sure that works. I guess it makes him easy to tell apart from Ghost Rider (which he pre-dates). That said, I often found his one-liners to be hilarious. He's brash and impulsive and that fits, even if it has been done to death for pyromaniac characters. Come to think of it I don't recall one character off the top of my head who had fire based powers who wasn't a cackling maniac or impulsive risk-taker. There's Firestar, but that's heat (microwaves), not fire. She-Hulk naturally seems more well-rounded as she's had solo issues longer than everyone on the team, and while she is wary of anything Stark, she does believe in the greater good. Nighthawk is the lead and he comes off well, and I liked some of the twists on scenes, like superheroes ragging on him for NOT wearing the bright spandex to a meeting or wondered why he is standing silent during 2-4 panels of thought balloons.
The Defenders start off trying to rescue the SHIELD agents and smash the Serpent cell in Atlantic City, although their terrible teamwork results in gamblers in the casinos being endangered and a mystical creature being unleashed. Oh yeah, with some of the teams the Initiative has put out and some of their antics, you can almost see that the New Warriors REALLY got railroaded. There also are cameos of Krang and Defenders arch-enemy Yandroth, as well as a retcon that Hellstorm wanted to train under the Ancient One before he found Dr. Strange, which I suppose could be retconned in during his youth era (back when he trained as a priest, even), and tries to connect some Defenders dots. There is a sense of direction and momentum despite the plot jumping around, and that I DO like. Although why did Scorcher look weird and have no hands? Jen is ROUGH.
Despite the concerns and niggles, this is the sort of straight-forward superhero action that I love to see in team comics, or at least some of them, since "grim" and "paranoid" became in vogue. The sum total and potential are greater than some of the ills of the parts. I'd recommend it, but only to those seeking out good superhero action with random heroes and villians, y'know, old school.
Alas, the theme often is, "didn't have a dominant storyline".
The posts at Newsarama make sure to note that "Defenstrate" is actually a word that means "to throw out a window", although it is so olde that spell-checks will be fooled.
I read the first issue and liked it. It's definitely quirky. I like the idea of Tony having a grudge against Nighthawk and subtly trying to sabotage the team by throwing (what he thought would be) a totally unworkable member in in She-Hulk. Looking forward to the next issue.
I loved it too. [BLACKOUT]Good to see Gargoyle. Nice mention of Hellcat and Devil Slayer. Loved seeing Son of Satan and Yandroth.[/BLACKOUT]
I thought that the legacy of the old mag wasn't gonna see the light of day, but glad to see that I was wrong. I just hope Shulkie or Collossus beat the crap outta that Skull dude.
Here's hoping Valkyrie and the Six Fingered Hand makes an appearance.
I read the first issue and liked it. It's definitely quirky. I like the idea of Tony having a grudge against Nighthawk and subtly trying to sabotage the team by throwing (what he thought would be) a totally unworkable member in in She-Hulk. Looking forward to the next issue.
The impression I got was that Nighthawk only fed She-Hulk that line about Stark to get her to join, like reverse psychology. I don't think at this time he genuinely believes Tony wants him to fail. Like Stark said, NJ is close enough to NY that it needs to be genuinely protected. And even if one member out of 4 didn't work, Jen could always be replaced. Blazing Skull & Colossus seemed rather gung-ho. Even if Skull doesn't seem the most eager to hear about mutant issues.
Kyle definitely was miffed that Stark went over his head with the team, but he seems eager to make it work, as he usually has been with the Defenders. With the old crew he often failed due to being a bit brash, as well as having to follow Dr. Strange's act, which is hard. This time he doesn't have that hassle.
And yes, it is quirky. I am curious how Muniz's art will look without Giffen's breakdowns; better, same, or worse?
I loved it too. [BLACKOUT]Good to see Gargoyle. Nice mention of Hellcat and Devil Slayer. Loved seeing Son of Satan and Yandroth.[/BLACKOUT]
I thought that the legacy of the old mag wasn't gonna see the light of day, but glad to see that I was wrong. I just hope Shulkie or Collossus beat the crap outta that Skull dude.
Here's hoping Valkyrie and the Six Fingered Hand makes an appearance.
I didn't mind Skull, he is a bit more of a comic relief than I expected. I was expecting a grizzled Wolverine type who might have some dry wit or cynical lines, but Skull's almost on open mic night. But, considering the lines were actually funny, I'll let it go.
Yandroth is the biggest thing to a regular enemy that the Defenders ever had so it makes sense. I also liked Krang trying to make himself empowered like Namor is. I think the bad guys are going to cobble together their own version of the Defenders' opposite number and the new guys will have to prove that they're superior.
Hellcat and Gargoyle have shown up recently, but Valkyrie hasn't for ages, so I'd be down for that too. But, we all know who the rest of the actual team will be...
Here is Paul O'Brien's review from his website, www.thexaxis.com :
Paul O'Brien said:
Finally this week, The Last Defenders #1. It's a Defenders miniseries. Kind of. A bit.
Co-written by Joe Casey and Keith Giffen, with Jim Muniz providing art from Giffen's breakdowns, this is a curious comic. I'm not entirely sure quite what it's trying to be, although it seems pretty clear about what it isn't. Ultimately, it's my faith in the writers that makes me assume they must be heading somewhere with this, rather than the story itself, which is mildly irrational, and littered with subplots.
As a concept, the Defenders have never really worked. The original premise was little more than "Here's some solo heroes who aren't in the Avengers - let's put them in a team." Unfortunately, there was no convincing reason for the Hulk, Dr Strange, the Sub-Mariner and the Silver Surfer to be on a team, and writers generally gave up trying pretty quickly. Instead, Defenders became a more or less random collection of C-list heroes, on which idiosyncratic creators such as Steve Gerber were sometimes allowed free reign. But the distinctiveness of those stories was due to Gerber, not to any particular strength of the "yet another generic team" concept.
What we seem to have here is a Defenders series wrestling with the fundamentally shaky nature of the premise. Having belatedly signed up for the Initiative, Nighthawk is convinced that the Defenders must surely have something to offer. After all, the Initiative is putting together a superteam for each state. Surely, with 52 teams to recruit, there's got to be room for a Defenders reunion?
But that's not how Tony Stark sees it. The Defenders? Not a bad name. But otherwise, basically rubbish. And so it is that poor, beleaguered Nighthawk finds himself a new "Defenders" team consisting of Colossus, She-Hulk and the Blazing Skull - none of whom have got the slightest connection with the Defenders. Together, they defend... New Jersey. This isn't quite what Nighthawk had in mind, but he's going to make the best of it.
This is a weird premise for a book. Casey and Giffen seem to have gone out of their way to create a Defenders team whose defining feature is that they aren't the Defenders. It's almost as though they're going to attempt to define what the Defenders were really about by saddling Nighthawk with this travesty. He's the only character to provide any real link with the original team, and even he was always a bit of a well-meaning wannabe.
Not that the characters are played for laughs, particularly. But they're not the Defenders. They're an essentially competent random team-up. The issue even ends with Yandroth (an obscure Defenders villain) telling us how important the original Defenders are.
Where on earth do you go with that, as a story? Common sense says that this is heading towards a story about how the Defenders concept has some value after all, and I can't imagine how they're going to sell me on that idea. If that's not the direction, I can't begin to imagine where this is going.
But there's enough in here to give me faith that Casey and Giffen know what they're doing, and in a weird, roundabout way, they really do have a good reason for calling this a Defenders series - even though the Defenders aren't in it. An oddity, but an intriguing one.
Rating: B+
Basically, he wasn't thrilled, but is trusting the creators. Has anyone told him Giffen's involvement ends by the end of issue #2?
And to be fair, She-Hulk has at least a "slight" connection to the team. Her cousin the Hulk founded it. And she joined one incarnation of some female-opposite numbers (Clea, Namorita, that sorta thing) at one point during The Order phase.
Paul O'Brien sounds a bit biased because he apparently never liked the Defenders due to their not having a really solid fundamental concept behind them. I don't really care what their initial concept was; Casey seems to have a good idea for a concept in mind for this particular incarnation--namely, the black sheep of the Initiative (although not quite so much as the Great Lakes Whatevers).
Wait, 52 teams? Do Puerto Rico and Washington, DC get teams too or something?
I have no exposure to the Blazing Skull prior to this, so I can't really judge whether Casey's kept him in line with his established character. But the Skull was basically exactly what Casey promised he'd be in his interviews prior to the issue's release.
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