Superman Returns The lifting of NK = Utterley Heroic?

[El Payaso]

care to read that I was replying to the question asked by rephrasing it. Thanks.

You weren't rephrasing anything that featured people's opinion on this. You introduced the concept of what people think / didn't think. Nice try I guess.

well that's an assumption on your part.

I assumed Superman recharged his powers with the sun because that's the way Superman works in comics. It's common knowledge. Please don't tell me you needed to be spoonfed on that one when the scene speaks for itself. Superman is weak, he goes to the sun, he looks better.

And then again I assumed Superman was over NK, walked on it and talked to Luthor before feeling the sweat running through his temple because that's the way it happened.

weakening him to the point of doing something simple like being able to stand is one thing, but weaken him while he's lifting up a billion pound continent of it is another.

Not if he was ok when he started to lift it. Then, after the kryptonite started to emerge from the rock, he started to feel weak again. No confusion.

 

[El Payaso]

Jeez, how many times to we have to go through this

1) New Krypton was not pure Kryptonite. Lex explains that the crystal creates a structure using the minerals surrounding it, that is why the fortress is white and made from ice. Meaning that new krypton is created with minerals from kryptonite, water and the sea bed.

2) It takes him a long time to feel the effects of New Krypton when he first lands, therefore it is consistent that it should take a while for him to feel the effects when he is lifting it

3) There is a large portion of land separating Superman from the Kryptonite when he is lifting NK, the kryptonite does not start breaking through the land until he is about to through it

4) The sun does recharge him to the point the where he can resist this new kryptonite for longer periods. Is that an assumption on my part? Absolutely not, it is clearly shown.

All I know is, no matter how you guys try ot explain it, both times I came out of the theater after atching it people didn't understand why he could stna on it andbe de-powered, and yet he could lift it minutes later.

I love the spirit of superherohypers. They can make a worthy survey amongst all people from an audience faster than a speeding bullet.

And Kryptonite is still kryptonite.

Just it's not pure when it's encapsulated inside of a rock though.

Singer just got lax. And the whole secen just came off as a "been there, seen that". AS one reporter for Entertainment Weekly put it: "I fell asleep, and when I woke up again, Superman was doing battle with a rock."

It was rationally explained. As some other reviewer said: "both the film and its star maintain continuity with the earlier films while having their own unique qualities. Superman Returns has an emotional depth that the earlier films did not."

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

You weren't rephrasing anything that featured people's opinion on this. You introduced the concept of what people think / didn't think. Nice try I guess.

Oh no? Here, I'll make it easier for you:

If Superman fails in this scene, not only do "Billions" of people die, but so does Superman, and this is pretty certain considering he almost dies by simply succeeding to get it off of Earth. Not only would the Earth lose a country or two, but it would lose its great hero also. I know many of the haters didnt like this scene and found it boring or repetitive, but i find it to be one of THE most heroic acts in any Superhero movie, and that is something i expect of Superman in ANY medium, any one else agree?

My reply:

I dont think people dislike it because it was boring or repetitive, I think people dislike it because two scenes prior he could barely walk while standing on it and a small piece of it in his back rendered him almost dead...

I was simply answering AVE's statements about the "haters"

I assumed Superman recharged his powers with the sun because that's the way Superman works in comics. It's common knowledge. Please don't tell me you needed to be spoonfed on that one when the scene speaks for itself. Superman is weak, he goes to the sun, he looks better.

And then again I assumed Superman was over NK, walked on it and talked to Luthor before feeling the sweat running through his temple because that's the way it happened.

Thanks for the Superman 101 lesson. But I wasnt talking about the recharging scene in an of itself, I'm talking about him recharging and being more resistant to kryptonite.

Here's your quote:

After he re-charged himself with the sun I guess he had some minutes before feeling the effects again.

You said it yourself, you're guessing, which is analogous to assuming. Yes Superman recharges from the yellow sun's rays but that's never made him any less susceptible to kryptonite.

Not if he was ok when he started to lift it. Then, after the kryptonite started to emerge from the rock, he started to feel weak again. No confusion.

unless that rock has lead in it, it shouldnt have any effect on the radiation the kryptonite emits. Even ignoring that very basic principle from the comics, the second that very green kryptonite poked through the rock, he should've wilted like a flower or at least been too weak to keep it in the air, if you subscribe to your diluted kryptonite theory. No matter how you cut it, Singer is playing fast and loose with how kryptonite affects him, diluted or not. Superman was standing on the continent for all of about 2 minutes before he started to become weakened, but yet was able to life the thing into space in about 10 minutes, while being closer to the kryptonite.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Oh no? Here, I'll make it easier for
unless that rock has lead in it, it shouldnt have any effect on the radiation the kryptonite emits. Even ignoring that very basic principle from the comics, the second that very green kryptonite poked through the rock, he should've wilted like a flower or at least been too weak to keep it in the air, if you subscribe to your diluted kryptonite theory.

It not ignoring any theory from the comics, it's all about the distance he is from kryponite, when he is at a particular distance away from Kryptonite it doesn't affect him, otherwise he'd being flying in Metropolis and he would started feeling the effects of kryptonite in Smallville.

No matter how you cut it, Singer is playing fast and loose with how kryptonite affects him, diluted or not. Superman was standing on the continent for all of about 2 minutes before he started to become weakened, but yet was able to life the thing into space in about 10 minutes, while being closer to the kryptonite.

I don't recall that scene lasting ten minutes, maybe we saw a different cut but in mine it lasted barely a minute and I don't even think there was a time cut in that scene, but if there was there would be know way of knowing how long it was.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

the second that very green kryptonite poked through the rock, he should've wilted like a flower or at least been too weak to keep it in the air, if you subscribe to your diluted kryptonite theory.

There is something you are not thinking of. He lifts the mass of land into the air before the kryptonite has reached the base of it (where he lifting from). By the time the kryptonite does reach him he has resistance because he is MUCH closer to the sun now. So he has just enough left to give it a final push. I felt that scene was one they definitely got right... Surely you can find other scenes that are more worth of picking apart? Shouldn't be to hard for ya

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Superman's proximity to the sun does nothing to his ability to resist kryptonite radiation. Sunlight gives him his powers. Resistance to kryptonite isn't one of them.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

So it's heroic, but Superman having a small piece of Kryptonite in his side and a whole island full of Kryptonite that he lifts is rediculous, he was weakened by just landing on it and he could get the crap beaten out of him for just standing on it. What's even more rediculous is that he didn't feel the effects of the Kryptonite, only after he got his ass handed to him by Lex knocking him down. When he was flying towards New Krypton he should of felt the effects of the radiation coming from the kryptonite in the island, a whole bloody island!! But don't get me wrong, lifting an island into outer space is heroic, but Superman carrying a whole island of Kryptonite is well, WRONG!!!. Singer should of done his homework, or should of used his brain!

Like Spidey stopping a speeding train with like 20 webs. Whatever. The fact that he shouldn't have been able to do it is what made the scene cool.

 

[El Payaso]

Like Spidey stopping a speeding train with like 20 webs. Whatever. The fact that he shouldn't have been able to do it is what made the scene cool.

lol

 

[Excel]

actually i found this to be very anticlimatic.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

There is something you are not thinking of. He lifts the mass of land into the air before the kryptonite has reached the base of it (where he lifting from). By the time the kryptonite does reach him he has resistance because he is MUCH closer to the sun now. So he has just enough left to give it a final push. I felt that scene was one they definitely got right... Surely you can find other scenes that are more worth of picking apart? Shouldn't be to hard for ya

Exactly, the movie shows that he is virtually in the clouds by the time the Kryptonite pokes through the bottom of the island. Meaning he just has enough strength left to carry the island to the edge of space and launch it into space. People also seem to forget that this practically killed Superman.

Like Spidey stopping a speeding train with like 20 webs. Whatever. The fact that he shouldn't have been able to do it is what made the scene cool.

Exactly, Spiderman does something FAR beyond his power level in Spidey 2, but NOT ONE person complains about it. Superman does it, and there is outrage.

 

[Lighthouse]

Exactly, the movie shows that he is virtually in the clouds by the time the Kryptonite pokes through the bottom of the island. Meaning he just has enough strength left to carry the island to the edge of space and launch it into space. People also seem to forget that this practically killed Superman.

So what? He still had a a shiv of pure kryptonite, not dilluted, pure kryptonite in his back. I don't care if it was a sliver. If the damn thing is actually INSIDE him, he should drop dead.

Exactly, Spiderman does something FAR beyond his power level in Spidey 2, but NOT ONE person complains about it. Superman does it, and there is outrage.

I actually didn't like that scene either, just like the scene where Peter is holding the entire trolley with one hand. He's stong, but not that strong. The thing thats frustrating about the kryptonite with Superman is that is his ONLY weakness(except for magic, but we'll never see that in a movie). It pisses me off when they do this in Smallville too. Kryponite is supposed to be lethal to Superman, and both the show and SR really depowered it. S:TM got it right. Couldn't even lift the damn thing off his neck.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So what? He still had a a shiv of pure kryptonite, not dilluted, pure kryptonite in his back. I don't care if it was a sliver. If the damn thing is actually INSIDE him, he should drop dead.

Here i will agree with you, the Kryptonite shard inside his body was a little too much and should have been cut IMO. If it had, i dont think think we would be having these arguments about the scene in question.

I actually didn't like that scene either, just like the scene where Peter is holding the entire trolley with one hand. He's stong, but not that strong. The thing thats frustrating about the kryptonite with Superman is that is his ONLY weakness(except for magic, but we'll never see that in a movie). It pisses me off when they do this in Smallville too. Kryponite is supposed to be lethal to Superman, and both the show and SR really depowered it. S:TM got it right. Couldn't even lift the damn thing off his neck.

The thing is though, even the comics are innaccurate on the effects of Kryptonite, In 'The Wrath Of Gog' Superman had kryptonite inside his body then, after being stabbed by Gog's staff laced with it, yet he still managed to carry on fighting Gog for a good while afterwards. Not only that, but not long after, when all the Super-villains target him in his weakened state, he still manages to fend them off, albeit with the help of Superboy and Wonder Woman, but Superman still fends 3/4 of them off by himself. So the comics are inconsistant on the effects of Green K as well, not just SR.

 

[dude stannis]

The shiv was really small, anyone remember Batman/Superman: Public Enemies? Supes took a kryptonite bullet in the chest and still manage to withstand an explosion and grab an electrified fence.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Here i will agree with you, the Kryptonite shard inside his body was a little too much and should have been cut IMO. If it had, i dont think think we would be having these arguments about the scene in question.



The thing is though, even the comics are innaccurate on the effects of Kryptonite, In 'The Wrath Of Gog' Superman had kryptonite inside his body then, after being stabbed by Gog's staff laced with it, yet he still managed to carry on fighting Gog for a good while afterwards. Not only that, but not long after, when all the Super-villains target him in his weakened state, he still manages to fend them off, albeit with the help of Superboy and Wonder Woman, but Superman still fends 3/4 of them off by himself. So the comics are inconsistant on the effects of Green K as well, not just SR.

See, I think that they left it in there just to show the sheer strength of Superman. To overcome Kryptonite's affects on him, and still be able to lift NK into space. IMO, I think that just goes to show just how much love he has for the human race and he didnt want Earth to suffer the same fate as Krypton, so he knew that he had to do something, or he would in fact be......alone!

 

[Rob-el]

Like Spidey stopping a speeding train with like 20 webs. Whatever. The fact that he shouldn't have been able to do it is what made the scene cool.

Actually when I saw that scene I thought it sucked as it was not consistant with the character and thought it wa stupid. As was a certain "heroic" scene in SR. I know we need suspension of disbelief but there are perameters in whcih we do so according to the myths of the character. Bottom line is that Superman would not have been able to get that hunk of rock into space any more than Spider-man would be able to stop the train. I'm not slamming SR - that scene though is slamable.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

See, I think that they left it in there just to show the sheer strength of Superman. To overcome Kryptonite's affects on him, and still be able to lift NK into space. IMO, I think that just goes to show just how much love he has for the human race and he didnt want Earth to suffer the same fate as Krypton, so he knew that he had to do something, or he would in fact be......alone!

Well yeah i agree with this, i think they did it to show that Supermans greatest powers are his determination and love for the human race. Saying that, i think the shiv was a step too far.

Actually when I saw that scene I thought it sucked as it was not consistant with the character and thought it wa stupid. As was a certain "heroic" scene in SR. I know we need suspension of disbelief but there are perameters in whcih we do so according to the myths of the character. Bottom line is that Superman would not have been able to get that hunk of rock into space any more than Spider-man would be able to stop the train. I'm not slamming SR - that scene though is slamable.

Both scene's are beyond the character's power levels, but at least the SR one had at least SOME explanation for why he was able to acheive it.

Saying that, i do like watching both scene's, as they are just great Superhero scenes to me.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Superman's proximity to the sun does nothing to his ability to resist kryptonite radiation. Sunlight gives him his powers. Resistance to kryptonite isn't one of them.

Yes but one could argue that the the sunlight was simultaneously powering him up while the kryptonite was draining him. Hence just giving him enough power to give the island a final push into space. Plus, if you watch the movie again, Superman is virtually in the clouds when the Kryptonite comes through the bottom of the island.

 

[Rob-el]

Yes but one could argue that the the sunlight was simultaneously powering him up while the kryptonite was draining him. Hence just giving him enough power to give the island a final push into space. Plus, if you watch the movie again, Superman is virtually in the clouds when the Kryptonite comes through the bottom of the island.

But the island wasn't made of lead (as far as I know) to sheild the radiation from him. The radiation would have been (should have been) hitting him long begore he came into close quarters with the stuff. Sure it would have a limit in terms of how close he needed to be before it hurt him but that much kryptonite would have one hell of a reach - something that should have been recognized by him ( and the film makers) long before he even landed on the big rock and something he should have beeen affected by as he approached it the second time to lift it up.

 

[C. Lee]

But the island wasn't made of lead (as far as I know) to sheild the radiation from him. The radiation would have been (should have been) hitting him long begore he came into close quarters with the stuff. Sure it would have a limit in terms of how close he needed to be before it hurt him but that much kryptonite would have one hell of a reach - something that should have been recognized by him ( and the film makers) long before he even landed on the big rock and something he should have beeen affected by as he approached it the second time to lift it up.

I've spoke of this before.

The kryptonite that is incorporated into the island....is diluted. Lex had one chunck of K....he placed one of the crystals into it and shot it into the ocean. When the crystal started to grow, and incorporated earth materials into the process of growing NK....the Kryptonite was not spread out among the growing island....so while it looked like there were massive amounts of kryptonite....it was diluted, and of lesser potency than normal.

 

[Rob-el]

I've spoke of this before.

The kryptonite that is incorporated into the island....is diluted. Lex had one chunck of K....he placed one of the crystals into it and shot it into the ocean. When the crystal started to grow, and incorporated earth materials into the process of growing NK....the Kryptonite was not spread out among the growing island....so while it looked like there were massive amounts of kryptonite....it was diluted, and of lesser potency than normal.

Fair enough - but he still only used one crystal - are we to assume that the mass (the single crystal) used to create NK and and all of its continetal mass was adherent to one set of rules while the Kryptonite used (admitably lessor in mass but relatively the sameand presumably equally sponge like in absoring properties)) was held to a different set of rules of expansionism?

 

[C. Lee]

Fair enough - but he still only used one crystal - are we to assume that the mass (the single crystal) used to create NK and and all of its continetal mass was adherent to one set of rules while the Kryptonite used (admitably lessor in mass but relatively the sameand presumably equally sponge like in absoring properties)) was held to a different set of rules of expansionism?

The crystal absorbed materials from the Earth (the ocean water, mud, dirt, rock, etc...) to create the land mass that became New Krypton.....but it was much harder to create the foriegn/alien substance of Kryptonite from Earth materials....hence, it was diluted.

 

[Rob-el]

The crystal absorbed materials from the Earth (the ocean water, mud, dirt, rock, etc...) to create the land mass that became New Krypton.....but it was much harder to create the foriegn/alien substance of Kryptonite from Earth materials....hence, it was diluted.

I don't post alot but have come to respect certain voices - yours high amogst them so I need to gain a better understanding from you on a point here. An alien crystal goes beyond our understaning of the simple rule of our understanding of conservation of mass/energy - mass nor energy may be neither created not destroyed - it merely changes form. I'm sure we both understand this concept in theory at least. Therefore I need to ask why did the alien mattter (crystal) act in one matter (expand in its mass ) (expotentally I might add!) while the kryptonite (of similiar origins) did not!

Signed - confuesded in state!

 

[TheComicbookKid]

First, to everyone who said the Spidey 2 train save was just as stupid, I applaude you for being consistant in your views.


I'll try and take a crack at this kryptonite island thing until C. Lee comes.t:

What I think he is saying is that the original Kryptonite piece was still intact somewhere on the island. What we saw sticking out was Kyptonite made from Earth minerals(faux kryptonite).What we saw as the continent was Earth minerals combined with the crystal's structure as well(which is why it looked like Krypton).

Think of this way. The Fortress of Solitude isn't ice although it's in the Artic. The crystals made a hybrid of nearby Earth materials to expand it's own inheriant qualities which is why the Fortress looks like Krypton but isn't. It's faux ice. In one of the deleted scenes, Kitty mentions the crystals being warm. That's not ice.

 

[Qwerty©]

The very fact that New Krypton didn't look anything like kryptonite on the surface proves that the effects won't be the same.

If New Krypton was comprised entirely of glowing green crystal then there is something to be angry about.

 

[mego joe]

The very fact that New Krypton didn't look anything like kryptonite on the surface proves that the effects won't be the same.

If New Krypton was comprised entirely of glowing green crystal then there is something to be angry about.

It sure as heck affected him when he was standing on top of it and it was not entirely comprised of glowing green crystal.

WHat was going on there? Was there a lead shield to protect him from the radiation on the bottom, but not on the top?