The Marvel "Did you know?" thread

I still wish the original Venom idea happened, would've been interesting to see. Maybe if Scorpion gets rid of the symbiote?

I also love the idea of Brock making a TMZ type career :D
 
Well Carnage is gonna be a chick soon.

Wasn't there a huge fight between McFarlane and Micheline over who created Venom? I remember the frist "unofficial" appearance of Eddie Brock was in Web of SM #18 when he pushed Peter onto the subway tracks in the path of an oncoming train. Pete then obsessed over the whole ordeal for a while after that.

The was a later appearance in Web (I think...) when he grabbed SM's leg from inside a high story window causing him to fall. I think the arm was black so Micheline intended at the time for it to be just the symbiote, without Brock. The alien was going to be revealed as mimicking humans with out needing one as a host.

I remember Micheline and McFarlane having a war of words in Wizard magazine over who created Venom, mostly because the character was HUGE at the time. I think Larsen got involved too. If anybody should've got credit for creating Brock/Venom it would be Marc Silvestri. He was the artist on Web, believe it or not for those issues. That run got him the gig on UXM and the rest is history.

Credit should also go to Peter David for the Sin Eater story that was the foundation for creating Brock.
 
All Mcfarlane did was design Venom which really wasn't all that hard.I'd give Micheline most the credit.
 
Any hoo, here's some of my favorite Marvel "urban legends" courtesy of the CBR weekly article I mentioned earlier (as you will see I LOVE behind the scenes fight between creators spill out into the public forum......ahhhh pre internet days!):

1. Al Milgrom was fired by Marvel for sneaking an insult towards Bob Harras into a comic book.

Al Milgrom apparently was not a fan of former Marvel Editor-in-Chief, Bob Harras. Milgrom was formerly a member of Marvel editorial, but had left to be a freelancer. In the late 90s/early 00s, Milgrom had a deal with Marvel to do freelance inking for them.

In August of 2000, Bob Harras was replaced as Editor in Chief of Marvel Comics by Joe Quesada. A few months later, Universe X: Spidey was released, which was a one-shot story tied into the Earth X/Universe X/Paradise X trilogy by Jim Krueger and Alex Ross. The story was drawn by Jackson Guice, with inks by John Stansici, Johm Romita Sr. and Al Milgrom.

At one point in the story, Al Milgrom snuck into the backround of a panel, along the spines of books on a bookshelf, the phrase, "Harras, ha ha, he's gone! Good riddance to bad rubbish, he was a nasty S.O.B."
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2. Artist Joe Jusko dressed up as Captain America for the cover of a comic book. In 1982, he posed wearing a Captain America costume on the cover of Marvel Team-Up #128, a book I own.


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3. Roger Stern left Avengers over Captain Marvel's leadership of the team.

In 1982, Roger Stern introduced a new Marvel superhero, who he gave the (then available) name of Captain Marvel. This young heroine joined the Avengers as a member-in-training, and soon rose in the ranks until the point, in 1987, that she became the leader of the Avengers. Which was a notable feat for one of the first significant black female superhero.

This was all fine and good, but in 1988, Avengers editor, Mark Gruenwald, had different ideas about the character. He wanted Captain America to become the leader of the team (conspiracy theories abound that since Gruenwald was the writer of Captain America's book, that he wanted Cap to lead the Avengers to aid in publicizing Captain America's title...which I do not think is fair to Gruenwald. It is just as likely that he just decided that it was better for the book for it to go down like this).
However, Gruenwald did not just want to have Captain America become the leader, he also wanted Captain Marvel to be shown as an inferior leader before she was taken off the team (presumably to further show how adept Captain America is at the role).

Stern, creator of the character, reasonably balked at this change, as he felt such a move would be hard to do without looking racist or sexist, and therefore, Stern, who had been writing the title for the past 60 issues or so, was taken off the book, and replaced by Ralph Macchio and then Walt Simonson, who both basically followed Gruenwald's prescribed plot path (until Simonson then took the book in his own direction). Which is a shame, as the decision really took Captain Marvel, who at the time had become as mainstream as you could get, off the road of "mainstream" basically for good.



4. Kevin Smith killed off Mysterio without permission from the Spider-Man editorial office.

In 1998, Kevin Smtih began his acclaimed run on Daredevil, with Joe Quesada on art, which helped launch the Marvel Knights line of comics (Marvel Knights was actually a separate branch of Marvel, with a separate editor in chief and everything! It was made up of the infrastructure of Joe Quesada's own company, Event Comics). The main plot of Smith's storyline was that an old Spider-Man villain, Mysterio, was dying, and decided to go out in a bang by thoroughly destroying his arch-nemesis, Spider-Man. However, at the time, Spider-Man was currently a different character (Ben Reilly), so Mysterio decided to adapt his plan to someone else, namely Daredevil. At the end of the story, Mysterio kills himself.

The problem, continuity-wise, came when a month later, Mysterio appeared in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man...fighting Spider-Man!!
It all came down to the fact that, when Spider-Man editor Ralph Macchio was asked if they could use Mysterio, no one mentioned that they were going to kill him off! The Spider-Man editor already had plans to use Mysterio in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man a few months after the Daredevil story was to finish.

As you may recall, Daredevil ran a bit late, so the conclusion of the arc ended up coming out AFTER the Amazing Spider-Man arc had begun, so while Mysterio was dying in one comic, he was the big villain in another.
Smith later claimed that no one told him that he specifically COULDN'T kill Mysterio.



5. Kurt Busiek came up with the idea for Jean Grey's original return from the dead!

Shortly before the publication of Uncanny X-Men #137, future freelance writer Kurt Busiek, then still a college student, heard about the upcoming events through the fan grapevine, as did fellow future comics pros Carol Kalish (who would go on to head up Marvel's Direct Sales Department for years) and Richard Howell (artist of the Vision and The Scarlet Witch 12-issue maxi-series, among others). The three of them also heard that Jim Shooter had declared that Jean Grey could not be revived unless it was done in such a way as to render her guiltless of Dark Phoenix's crimes. Taking this as a creative challenge, all three then-fans decided to come up with their own resurrection scenario. Busiek's involved the discovery that Jean Grey was still on the bottom of Jamaica Bay in suspended animation, and the Phoenix entity had used her body and mind as a lens, creating an immensely powerful duplicate of Jean, but a duplicate which grew more corrupted and distorted the longer it remained separate from the true Jean.

in 1983, after beginning a career as a freelance writer the previous year, Kurt Busiek attended a comics convention in Ithaca, New York, staying at the home of Marvel writer Roger Stern. In conversation, both writers' longtime interest in the X-Men came up, and Stern expressed regret that there was no way to bring Jean back, not while satisfying Shooter's edict. Busiek told Stern his idea, not expecting it to amount to more than idle conversation. Later, Stern told the idea to John Byrne, then writer/artist of Fantastic Four.

In 1985, Jim Shooter greenlighted a new series that would reunite the original X-Men into a new team called "X-Factor," to be written by longtime freelancer Bob Layton. Hearing of this, Byrne called Layton and suggested Busiek's idea as a means of raising Jean Grey from the dead while satisfying Jim Shooter's demands for total absolution for Jean.:awesome:
 
I always liked his art but yea he's a total dick.Only person who's more of a dick is Liefield.
 
runawayboulder said:
3. Roger Stern left Avengers over Captain Marvel's leadership of the team.

In 1982, Roger Stern introduced a new Marvel superhero, who he gave the (then available) name of Captain Marvel. This young heroine joined the Avengers as a member-in-training, and soon rose in the ranks until the point, in 1987, that she became the leader of the Avengers. Which was a notable feat for one of the first significant black female superhero.

This was all fine and good, but in 1988, Avengers editor, Mark Gruenwald, had different ideas about the character. He wanted Captain America to become the leader of the team (conspiracy theories abound that since Gruenwald was the writer of Captain America's book, that he wanted Cap to lead the Avengers to aid in publicizing Captain America's title...which I do not think is fair to Gruenwald. It is just as likely that he just decided that it was better for the book for it to go down like this).
However, Gruenwald did not just want to have Captain America become the leader, he also wanted Captain Marvel to be shown as an inferior leader before she was taken off the team (presumably to further show how adept Captain America is at the role).

Stern, creator of the character, reasonably balked at this change, as he felt such a move would be hard to do without looking racist or sexist, and therefore, Stern, who had been writing the title for the past 60 issues or so, was taken off the book, and replaced by Ralph Macchio and then Walt Simonson, who both basically followed Gruenwald's prescribed plot path (until Simonson then took the book in his own direction). Which is a shame, as the decision really took Captain Marvel, who at the time had become as mainstream as you could get, off the road of "mainstream" basically for good.

Wow, Gruenwald was a dick too.
 
Yeah but his stories were pretty awesome. You definitely can't say that about McFarlane.....
 
Here's some more....

1. Electronic ankle bracelet monitors were created based on a Spider-Man comic strip.

The idea behind the devices originated in an unlikely spot - a Spider-Man comic strip! A New Mexico district court judge, Jack Love, read a late 70s Spider-Man comic strip in the newspaper, where the villain Kingpin was tracking Spider-Man via an electronic tracking bracelet on Spider-Man's wrist. Love theorized that such a device would work in real life, as well.
He struck an arrangement with a computer salesman to develop the devices, which were introduced in New Mexico in 1983. They proved to work well, and a similar device was then developed in Florida a year or two later. Both tests were successful, and the product then went national, leading to the current arrangement today.

2. Wolverine originally was going to kill Sabretooth.....30 years ago.

John Byrne of some future storylines planned for X-Men all through issue #150 in 1981. As you all know, Byrne's last issue on the title ended up being #143, so those plans never came to fruition.

While the list had some intriguing ideas (including some stuff Byrne has spoken about in the past, namely getting the available original X-Men back on the team (Iceman and Angel) and some stuff I had never heard of, like the multi-part "Robot Cyclops" story).

Byrne relates a story that involves Sabretooth (who, at the time, had only appeared in Iron Fist) attacking Mariko and brutalizing her (just violence, no sexual assault or anything like that) to the point where she's pretty much dead. The X-Men find her, though, and get her hospitalization, but she's in a coma - brain dead. And Xavier cannot do anything to help her, and when Wolverine doesn't believe him, he connects Wolverine to her mind, so he can experience the emptiness.

Wolverine, naturally, cuts her life support, then goes off and, in a bloody battle, kills Sabretooth - with the reveal then coming that Sabretooth was Wolverine's father. (Something that has been mentioned earlier in the thread).


3. Mr. Sinister was originally envisioned as the product of the mutant mind of a child.

When Chris Claremont first introduced Mr. Sinister, the idea was that the character we knew as Mr. Sinister was actually a product of the mutant mind of a child. A child who could never age. Essentially, a twisted version of the relationship between Billy Batson and Captain Marvel.

Claremont first mainly laid these plans out in the pages of Classic X-Men, where he featured stories of Scott Summers' upbringing as an orphan in an orphanage. There there was a boy who was fascinated with Scott, and whatever the boy wanted to have happen, suddenly Mr. Sinister would show up and do what the boy wanted to have happen.

The reveal would be that the boy WAS Mr. Sinister - which is why the name is so dorky - as this villain would be the product of the mind of a child. The only problem is, this child would never grow up, leaving Mr. Sinister to become more and more his public persona.

Ultimately, though, after Claremont was no longer writing X-Men, later writers completely changed this plot point. The stories from the orphanage are now meant to be Mr. Sinister in disguise as a young boy.


4. J. M. DeMatteis planned to kill Captain America during his run on the title.

DeMatteis confirmed that it was true. "My last year on the book was one long ongoing saga involving Captain America's final battle with the Red Skull. It was to reach a turning point with a double-sized CAP #300 in which the Red Skull dies and Cap, after (at the time) forty-plus years of solving problems with his fists, begins to wonder if there's another way to live his ideals and change the world. In the proposal I presented to my editor, the late, great Mark Gruenwald, Cap was, ultimately, going to disavow violence as a tool for change-essentially rejecting the entire superhero mindset-and start working for world peace." (Keep in mind that this was at the height of the Reagan "evil empire"/cold war period, so it was a pretty radical idea for its day.)

"My plan was to have the world turn against Cap, his own country rejecting him as un-America, other world leaders shunning him: The only allies he was going to find in his quest for global change would be the Sub-Mariner and Doctor Doom. This was the period when Jack Monroe-aka Nomad, the Bucky of the 50's-was Cap's partner...and Jack, with his cold war mentality, would be manipulated by Cap's enemies. In the climax, as Cap speaks at a rally of his few remaining supporters, Nomad (perched on a roof across the way) assassinates him. Only then, with Cap dead, would the world realize what they had. In tribute to Cap, all nations of the world would lay down their weapons for one hour. One hour of peace on Earth.
The plan was then to find Cap's replacement. I toyed with the idea of Sam Wilson, the Falcon, becoming the new Cap."

"But (as I recall-and, let's face it, it's been a while) I finally settled on Black Crow, a Native American character I'd used in the book, as the new Captain America. Who better to represent America than one of the first Americans? Gruenwald approved all this, I wrote the double-sized Cap #300, went ahead and plotted the next two or three stories in the arc; but editor-in-chief Jim Shooter, hearing what we were planning, shot the idea down. Jim said, essentially, that my idea violated Cap's character, that Steve Rogers would never act like that."

"Cap #300 was then cut down to a normal-sized issue and substantially rewritten, I think by Jim himself-or perhaps Gruenwald under Jim's direction. (Which is why I used a fake name in the credits and quit the book.) At the time I was angry but, in retrospect, I totally understand Shooter's POV. Jim-a brilliant editor and a guy who really helped me along in the early days of my career-was the custodian of the Marvel Universe: he had to protect the characters as he understood them. As noted, my idea was extremely radical for its day: I mean-Captain American involved in political controversy and then assassinated? How could anything like that every happen? "


Pretty interesting......
 
I actually agree with the much-maligned Shooter on that one. Cap's a soldier as much as he is a hero. I don't see him laying down his arms and speaking at rallies forever. Something would come along to turn him back toward literally fighting for justice. Not to mention that, while I can't speculate on how it would've been in the '80s, that would be a giant, boring cliché now.

Anyway, another fun fact about that: J. M. DeMatteis did eventually write that story. He called it The Life and Times of Savior 28, and I'm actually reading the trade of it right now. It's pretty good, but I wouldn't have thought so if it were applied to Captain America.
 
Y'know all of the negative stuff I've read about Shooter over the years, ruled with an iron fist, low-balling his writer/artists, ect.....he was pretty friggin loyal to the characters and what they stood for. Both he and DeFalco were great EIC. While Quesada's tenure has been very successful for the company, he nowhere nears understands the characters like Shooter did.
 
The gods are all about the incest and awkward family ties. :)

Did you know Thor being Thor was a very early retcon? For his first few issues of Journey into Mystery, he was presented as the man, Donald Blake, gaining Thor's power but retaining his own mind. Glad they made the switch, myself. :up:

Huh? :huh:

So there was still Donald Blake right...?
 
I still wish the original Venom idea happened, would've been interesting to see. Maybe if Scorpion gets rid of the symbiote?

I also love the idea of Brock making a TMZ type career :D

People say Brock's motivations toward Spider-Man are weak, then say they would want the original Venom, who's motivations are even worse? :whatever:

Yeah, the editor was sexist, it seems, as he didn't like the idea of a female supervillain overpowering Spider-Man, so chick became a dude.
 
That Cap story sounded pretty f****** epic. I could see him teaming with Namor , but not Doom.
 
I could see him teaming with Namor and Namor bringing in Doom.
 
Probably not, but I think Doom would involve himself dispite Cap's wishes. Whether he's aware of it or not.
 
That's true. I could imagine Namor killing Jack Monroe right after that happened.
 
You know what's fascinating is that Gruenwald approved the above Cap story, which if was executed, Cap would've NEVER been able to stay on as leader of the Avengers given his change of ideals.

A couple of years later, Gruenwald and Stern had their pissing match about Cap being the leader of the Avengers instead of Captain Marvel/Photon.

It's like he (Gruenwald) did a complete about-face regarding the direction of Cap.....
 
They should turn that Cap story into a What If ? .
 
Did you know: Gwen Stacy was originally going to be featured (as a major character) in Spider-Man: TAS, but was only decided against when the writers realized that they would have to kill her off?

This may be common knowledge, but its still worth bringing up when you really think about something: they wouldn't use Gwen cause they'd have to kill her off, even though the show very loosely followed the comics anyway...yet they stilled "killed off" Mary-Jane Wattson in the episode "Turning Point", based on the same story arc that Gwen died?

So they deny the series Gwen to avoid having to have her face her fate, but have MJ take the same fall they didn't want Gwen to face? :doh:

Did you know: Fox was originally going to make a Spider-Man 2099 cartoon :awesome:

But we got Spider-Man Unlimited instead :cmad:
 
Wasn't Spider-Man Unlimited in some way an offshoot of SM TAS using the same "reality"? Something about Pete getting stuck in the future or some alternate universe? I never saw it.....
 
Wasn't Spider-Man Unlimited in some way an offshoot of SM TAS using the same "reality"? Something about Pete getting stuck in the future or some alternate universe? I never saw it.....
Pete got stuck on Counter Earth along with Venom and Carnage while looking for John Jamieson. The High Evolutionary was leader and his beastials lived in the skyscrapers while the humans lived below. He ends up finding John and it turns out he's the leader of the human resistance. The show got canceled before the big show down between Spidey , High Evolutionary , Venom and Carnage was about to begin.

Spider-Man's suit was cool too. It was made out of nanites and he had a web for a cape.
 
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