Marvel Films The Marvel Studios News and Discussion Thread

[antboy]

Also it was the first team up movie that was making its debut!! Had to spend enough time on multiple back stories!! With the sequel at least more time given to the movie!! Plus they were a lower tier priority!! I’m sure only super die hards knew enough about them

I have to disseminate the idea Eternals are not 10 characters. They are one thing. See the link "The Brain" on my site. They have a single backstory and operate as one. Even split up (at the end of the movie) their story will be as one.

 

[antboy]

The Eternals are probably the characters who manage to be most obscure relative to their exposure level. Like, obviously there are tons of one-shot villains and supporting characters that are even more obscure, but the Eternals have been around a long time and appeared in a lot of stuff, and yet are *still* obscure. Mostly because while various individuals and pieces of their mythos have appeared lots, its always as part of something else. Sersi shows up as an Avenger, Thanos shows up as part of the cosmic milieu, the Celestials show up as a Thor or Fantastic Four threat, etc. And hell, Thanos wasn't even an original part of the Eternal mythos. They aren't a living breathing story in their own right, they are a bunch of scrap that have been salvaged for use in other stories. Which. . . is something the MCU could totally also do.

Is this a bad thing? Arguably no, the Eternals are certainly not the best work by Jack Kirby. In a lot of ways, they are just his unused notes from developing the New Gods, slapped together into something resembling a story. Using them as a story scrapyard is probably the most worthwhile thing you can do with them.

I feel what is being done w them now is ultra fresh and something we have never seen before. I want more people to understand the themes the movie was putting out there. So much of it was overlooked by fandom and the are gonna wish they knew more in the future.

Eternals is going to be the thing that spans time itself. They are inherently, now, connected to the Celestials - the oldest beings we have seen. Through Eternals, we will see the vast past of the MCU.

Like you said of them being disparate and flung all over, MCU has now rightfully put them together as one thing, a Brain. A team.

In the beginning... before Mutants..... there was a team of beings powered by the same source (Celestial energy) which manifested unique abilities in each.

Why doesn't Ikaris run fast? Why doesn't Makkari fly?

It's who they are. And, it's irrelevant they are androids (here)... but very important elsewhere.

 

[BoredGuy]

Eternals failed only because it was not understood. This is not real failure.

Also, yes, Covid.

TBH I have never seen such a strange reaction from Marvel or even DC fans over a movie being

"too much to unpack"
"too many characters"
"too much overall"

never have I heard fans complaining of this. Yet, Eternals is laid down as a "failure" because some people couldn't pick up what the movie was laying down. They didn't unpack it because they couldn't? Who, then, failed? The movie or the fan?



EternalsExplained.com

IMO, There wasn't too much to unpack
But the movie did have some unfortunate issues as a piece of entertainment:

-The Lead character of the whole film, Sersi, was emotionally blank and lacking in charisma
-The more interesting Eternals, especially Druig, felt like they were barely able to be fit in and their arcs truncated
-Kro's evolution, while an interesting concept, was of little use to the plot, and he was dispatched with barely a whimper. If it was just a mystery as to why the Deviants were attacking, and then we found out Icarus had altered their genetic code or programming, it would've worked just as well and felt less tacked on.

All in all, I liked the movie. But if they made anyone else the lead character, and subbed out the 10 minutes of Kro stuff for 10 more minutes with Druig or Makkari or Phastos, etc., it would've been a stronger movie for it

Thematically and Lore-wise, it was a great addition, but as a film it had some important weaknesses

 

[antboy]

To quote myself on EternalsExplained in link The Brain

EternalsExplained
The X-Men are a team with powers shared by the fact they are Mutants. They have genetic mutation which manifests in each of them a different way. Eternals are imbued with Celestial power through Arishem. The source of the power is the same, but it manifests in all of them differently.

 

[antboy]

IMO, There wasn't too much to unpack
-The Lead character of the whole film, Sersi, was emotionally blank and lacking in charisma

I disagree she was the lead character. I think MCU mus market films as having leads and she was put in that role.

With 10 pieces, we can't expect (even with a long runtime) for every piece to be fleshed out so well.

-The more interesting Eternals, especially Druig, felt like they were barely able to be fit in and their arcs truncated

I felt Druig's arc fit in just right even tho I wanted more. He's revealed to us as a rebel who offshoots his own yucatan and then amazonian tribe. Now that I've seen the connection to the Talokan, I want to know what that means for his people in the past (if at all).

-Kro's evolution, while an interesting concept, was of little use to the plot, and he was dispatched with barely a whimper. If it was just a mystery as to why the Deviants were attacking, and then we found out Icarus had altered their genetic code or programming, it would've worked just as well and felt less tacked on.

Unpack it more. The Deviants were not attacking. What class was Sersi teaching in the beginning of the movie? Apex Predators. Kro led the other Deviants to attack. He was the Apex Predator. They, themselves, would be happy to feast on humans. If my idea is right that Kro might be a mutant, that's why he's leading the pack for Eternals. The mistake or happenstance of Ikaris caused the whole thing (maybe!). Kro seemed to sense Ajak and the cosmic power and once it consumed her, instantly evolved and then transformed the other Deviants which then sought out Eternals.

I cannot reveal all of it, because I don't know. But can't we be sure by now nothing in MCU is "wasted" material?

All in all, I liked the movie. But if they made anyone else the lead character, and subbed out the 10 minutes of Kro stuff for 10 more minutes with Druig or Makkari or Phastos, etc., it would've been a stronger movie for it

Thematically and Lore-wise, it was a great addition, but as a film it had some important weaknesses

I'm glad you have positivity about it as many do not. It's a high concept movie. I called it "Marvel's First Adult Movie" lol.

Something is becoming of Kro. We're gonna see. Or, the concept of Kro and what that meant.

 

[Iceman]

It's strange you think the "history covered" was essentially meaningless.

Did anyone even pick up that Namor's people were born within five years of the Tenochtitlan event in Eternals and they were both located in he Yucatan? And than when the Talokan attack or move together, they do it in an avian structure (a triangle or pyramid) like the Eternals appeared to ancient man in the opening scene?

Is it connected?

Also, basically to quote myself from the site created to explain Eternals, the passing of time in the film is not simply "laying of foundation". What happens over a long period of time? Evoluton. Eternals are beings who span great periods of time, thus, the director can show us things like the character Kro (mostly ignored) who I believe may have been a mutant. How else do we explain its ability to take the powers of an Eternal Rogue-style? And, with taking that power, to evolve suddenly.

Kro sped up evolution immensely. After absorbing Ajak, it's "paw" and spine changed instantly allowing it to stand further upright. Upon absorbing Gilgamesh, it stood completely, developed a full hand and could speak and interpret Ajak and Gil's memories.

We saw a mutant in the MCU - a rapidly-developed one - for the first time and fans blew Kro off as some fake and trick character hiding the Celestials as the villain.

How short-sighted.

Where exactly did you get that I thought the history covered was essentially meaningless? Very strange that you thought that! Need to read more carefully lol.

 

[Zyraquis]

Re: Eternal. It’s one of my most favorite MCU shows and you explained well some points why. From what I see story wise it is rather coherent and does have something to say but the movie just doesn’t connect with the majority maybe because of the “high concept” failing to convey well to general audience maybe something else I don’t know. It would be a shame if Marvel stops doing this kind of shows because of the reception. The execution could be done differently so it works better with the general audience and comic book fans.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

There's a lot I really like about Eternals. The large scale worldbuilding of the Celestials seeding worlds and all that is really my type of comic booky stuff. However, I do feel like it perhaps wanted to do too much in one film, and doing the whole "getting the band back together" style reintroduction for all the characters took a lot of time too.

I think maybe they could've split it in two projects, where the first deals with the Eternals working as a team against the Deviants throughout history, and the second is about the Eternals in the modern day finding out the truth about Earth, having internal conflict, rebelling against Arishem, and ultimately preventing Tiamut.

Or maybe it could've worked as one movie if it'd been more linear. They could've started out with the simple premise of the Eternals fighting to protect the world from the Deviants throughout the centuries. Have character development for them in those portions, showcase the relationships they form between themselves, how the different Eternals view humanity, etc. Then have them starting to disagree about when to interfere with human affairs, with hints being dropped throughout about Arishem not telling them everything, Ajak becoming conflicted, etc. Then right as the Deviant threat seems to have been neutralized have everything come to a head in the final act. Something like Kro is the last surviving Deviant and right before his defeat he blames the Eternals for blindly trusting Arishem and genociding the Deviants for him no questions asked, which leads to an already conflicted Ajak revealing the truth. When they find out the truth about the Earth, Arishem, Tiamut, etc. they then have to choose whether to stay loyal to Arishem or prevent Tiamut's birth. So, much the same as the movie we actually got, but spending less time on getting everyone back together and seeing how they live in the modern world, and instead spending that time on more stuff in the past and a more fleshed out Deviant storyline.

I don't know. I feel like the way they did it was just a lot and as a result the Deviants felt wasted, the character development didn't hit as hard because we only found out about it through flashbacks, etc.

 

[Venom 1988]

Eternals failed only because it was not understood. This is not real failure.

Also, yes, Covid.

TBH I have never seen such a strange reaction from Marvel or even DC fans over a movie being

"too much to unpack"
"too many characters"
"too much overall"

never have I heard fans complaining of this. Yet, Eternals is laid down as a "failure" because some people couldn't pick up what the movie was laying down. They didn't unpack it because they couldn't? Who, then, failed? The movie or the fan?



EternalsExplained.com

My dude we get it. Obviously you love the movie, which is perfectly fine. Others like myself didn't and that's fine too. Just because I didn't like it doesn't mean I didn't "get it", so no need to be condescending.

 

[NotNickFury]

At the very least, I think Eternals had a lot of interesting ideas, just buried underneath the weight of its roster and runtime. For example, I really enjoy the scene where the team is debating whether they have the right to stop the birth of a Celestial.

 

[antboy]

Where exactly did you get that I thought the history covered was essentially meaningless? Very strange that you thought that! Need to read more carefully lol.

i dont remember the op. Ill look for it. not tryin to battle, ever

 

[antboy]

There's a lot I really like about Eternals. The large scale worldbuilding of the Celestials seeding worlds and all that is really my type of comic booky stuff. However, I do feel like it perhaps wanted to do too much in one film, and doing the whole "getting the band back together" style reintroduction for all the characters took a lot of time too.

I've heard this a lot (have read countless reviews and posts about the movie over time) about "getting the band back together".

I really think it was a struggle of what fits where and how. I doubt any of us thinks MCU puts superfluous elements in anything. It all means something. "band back together" was just a vehicle. I'm not saying I really liked it either, but I wasn't the one on the floor at Marvel deciding what and what couldn't be in the movie. They had reasons.

I think maybe they could've split it in two projects, where the first deals with the Eternals working as a team against the Deviants throughout history, and the second is about the Eternals in the modern day finding out the truth about Earth, having internal conflict, rebelling against Arishem, and ultimately preventing Tiamut.

I like it. My firs thought it, what's the conclusion of this first project? How does that form into a coherent narrative? I'm seeing lots and lots of history (me with a hardon!) and maybe it ends with them learning the truth about Arishem? A 2-part cliffhanger? I'm not sure.

Or maybe it could've worked as one movie if it'd been more linear. They could've started out with the simple premise of the Eternals fighting to protect the world from the Deviants throughout the centuries. Have character development for them in those portions, showcase the relationships they form between themselves, how the different Eternals view humanity, etc. Then have them starting to disagree about when to interfere with human affairs, with hints being dropped throughout about Arishem not telling them everything, Ajak becoming conflicted, etc.

I like it, too. I'm not sure if the movie we got was like, the best version of Eternals. In fact, through writing my site and doing research, I feel like this first movie was just a trailer. I know that sounds pompous maybe and a bit crazed.

I made the case:

EternalsExplained
Contrary to all that potentiality, the delightful shock of seeing this fresh movie concept and the characters all at once--ALL of it; their powers, their costumes, armor and suits, the CGI of the deviants, reveal of the Celestials and celestial power and tech imbued to them by Arishem--to have saved all of that and kept it under wraps only to reveal it suddenly in one flagship effort was brilliant.

I can't forget the moment I saw the first trailer, the big, triangular ship and all of the Eternals lined up on the cliff. The feeling of being exposed to that all at once, suddenly. What an experience. That's not possible when all those concepts and elements have been exposed and explored already in smaller venues like Disney+ or solo films for one or two Eternals.

The movie has this huge star-studded cast, and at the end, people get split up into their own sub-stories. So, Eternals was not "Eternals I" or whatever.. the whole thing was establishing everything but also revealing what I believe is the most astonishing thing in the MCU maybe in a long time or ever *covers head from rocks*. For me, it's the precursor to mutants and a high-powered team like X-Men - something we have been starving for.

To go further, their fight on the beach at the end puts Civil War to shame.

Then right as the Deviant threat seems to have been neutralized have everything come to a head in the final act. Something like Kro is the last surviving Deviant and right before his defeat he blames the Eternals for blindly trusting Arishem and genociding the Deviants for him no questions asked, which leads to an already conflicted Ajak revealing the truth. When they find out the truth about the Earth, Arishem, Tiamut, etc. they then have to choose whether to stay loyal to Arishem or prevent Tiamut's birth. So, much the same as the movie we actually got, but spending less time on getting everyone back together and seeing how they live in the modern world, and instead spending that time on more stuff in the past and a more fleshed out Deviant storyline.

Yeah, would that be the second movie, then? Sure, I like it. I just feel like the concepts in this one movie were like "must haves" at Marvel and I think it was crammed. I felt like they were all "we just need to get this out there in one huge pop". Overall, it worked for me. I would have LOVED to see them interacting in past history! I think it's not too late for that. e could see snippets of it and I believe we will.

I don't know. I feel like the way they did it was just a lot and as a result the Deviants felt wasted

I really think there is more to consider about the Deviants than is largely getting credit for but at the same time, I cannot see (myself) what the upcoming reveals of what that meant will be.

 

[antboy]

My dude we get it. Obviously you love the movie, which is perfectly fine. Others like myself didn't and that's fine too. Just because I didn't like it doesn't mean I didn't "get it", so no need to be condescending.

I think that's the case for a lot of fans. If it doesn't apply to you, ease on down the road my brother

 

[antboy]

At the very least, I think Eternals had a lot of interesting ideas, just buried underneath the weight of its roster and runtime. For example, I really enjoy the scene where the team is debating whether they have the right to stop the birth of a Celestial.

It's a lot. I get it. That's why I have this feeling Eternals was just a splash page for what is to come with those six remaining characters are doing now in the present. Yet, it's been established Gilgamesh is returning, Sprite is gonna have a future arc and I don't see Ikaris being left out from the future (I think someone here said he was confirmed somewhere in future Eternals).

Yes, that scene w their internal debate was great. I also love the scenes where Ikaris betrays them and for me it seemed really powerful and genuine. I am unsure how ppl can claim it was a dead movie, like, they felt nothing or whatever. I felt that scene well.

 

[metaphysician]

At the very least, I think Eternals had a lot of interesting ideas, just buried underneath the weight of its roster and runtime. For example, I really enjoy the scene where the team is debating whether they have the right to stop the birth of a Celestial.

Yep, which is why I consider it an interesting failure. It doesn't work as a movie, but it has parts that work on their own.

Why doesn't it work as a movie? That's fairly straightforward: because it has six acts of plot crammed into three acts worth of runtime. It seems pretty clear to me that at some point in development, either Zhao or the execs realized that Zhao had written *two* movies, not one. . . and that there was no good way to turn them into one movie. In retrospect, what they should have done was just stick to the first three acts ( "Introduce the POV and premise", "Get the team back together", "Defeat the Deviant villains" ), and save the second three acts for the sequel.

Oh, and regarding the idea that the Eternals don't need a lot of introduction because they have one common concept. . . that is complete and utter BS. Characters in stories do not work based on an understanding of the idea of the characters, they work because the audience understands them individually, as individual *people*. And Eternals *definitely* failed in that regard, as pretty much everyone got short shrift due to competing with everyone else for finite screen time. Aside from like two of them, all the main cast were cut to the bone and only got the absolute minimum character development needed to serve their plot function.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Kevin Feige talks Phase 5, Kang, and the future of the MCU

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Marvel, Star Wars TV Shows, Movies Headed for Slowdown at Disney – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[psylockolussus]

2 Xeries and 3 movies should be enough per year imo. 4 movies and 3 to 5 shows are too much for a single year.

Though they already announced too many movies good enough until 2026. And there's still no date for Shang-Chi 2, Eternals 2, X-Men, Dr. Strange 3, Spider-Man 4 and Black Panther 3. I think its time to retire Thor, Ant-Man and Guardians in phasiX.

 

[samsnee]

Marvel, Star Wars TV Shows, Movies Headed for Slowdown at Disney – The Hollywood Reporter

Now Feige understands why it’s so hard to try to connect movies and tv. Everything always gets shuffled which means making connecting plot points frivolous at best and confusing at worst

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah, it hasn't been an issue thus far, but it could easily cause headaches in a shortened phase six
but hopefully the shows don't have tooooo much bearing on the movie plots though
I like 'em being more self-contained anyway

 

[Originalavenger]

Now Feige understands why it’s so hard to try to connect movies and tv. Everything always gets shuffled which means making connecting plot points frivolous at best and confusing at worst

The pandemic screwed up a lot of the connection! But yeah it does seem like too many movies and too many shows makes it harder to juggle he connections

 

[Bayne]

2 Xeries and 3 movies should be enough per year imo. 4 movies and 3 to 5 shows are too much for a single year.

Though they already announced too many movies good enough until 2026. And there's still no date for Shang-Chi 2, Eternals 2, X-Men, Dr. Strange 3, Spider-Man 4 and Black Panther 3. I think its time to retire Thor, Ant-Man and Guardians in phasiX.

Guardians Vol. III was confirmed to be the last Guardians film a long time ago anyway.

I guess Thor and Ant-man technically could have continued, but Ant-man's never been that big of a hit so unless Quantumania makes a billion it would seem unlikely for it to go past three. And Hemsworth wants out because of his health, so that can't happen either, unless they give Thor 5 to Jane Foster.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Guardians Vol. III was confirmed to be the last Guardians film a long time ago anyway.

I guess Thor and Ant-man technically could have continued, but Ant-man's never been that big of a hit so unless Quantumania makes a billion it would seem unlikely for it to go past three. And Hemsworth wants out because of his health, so that can't happen either, unless they give Thor 5 to Jane Foster.

It was confirmed as last one for this VERSION of the team. They will likely do a 4th film with a totally overhauled roster

 

[Bayne]

It was confirmed as last one for this VERSION of the team. They will likely do a 4th film with a totally overhauled roster

I thought so too in the past, but nothing's ever been confirmed or even hinted at by anyone official and the schedule is already tight even as they're deciding to slow things down in general.

There's also not currently any particular obvious character they've established who would make sense on that kind of team (I used to think Valkyrie, but based on what she did in L&T I doubt it).

And they still have a cosmic franchise in Captain Marvel and a cosmic show in Loki.

So I just don't see much reason for them to move forward with a GotG IV. At least, not anytime soon.

 

[Venom 1988]

In case no one saw it on the Cap Marvel board, they just released a new poster for The Marvel and it's apparently been pushed out to November 10th. Given Feige's recent comments, this might be the best so these different projects have more breathing room to stand out. On a side note, the poster looks cool.