The Offical Final Fantasy Game Thread

[Iceman]

I don't have a problem with the gameplay changes. I never had a problem with Final Fantasy being more action oriented. The problem was that they simply lost their focus on the story, and were too into creating giant spectacles and beautiful graphics.

I don't think they were too into the graphics, or at least if they were I want them to be too into it. They always were, well since I started playing at VII. That shouldn't be a reason to forget about making a great story and characters. Game designers are supposed to be capable of focusing on more than one thing, especially when we're talking core basic parts of the experience.

 

[Solidus]

I don't have a problem with the gameplay changes. I never had a problem with Final Fantasy being more action oriented. The problem was that they simply lost their focus on the story, and were too into creating giant spectacles and beautiful graphics.

Well you are in a minority there. Most of the complaints are because of the gameplay. FF is not action oriented, and it's the reason SE is struggling with it right now. Gameplay is always first. It's why people adore the original ten so much.

But yes, they should fix all, not just story though. Gameplay is the core issue, production value/story should be fixed too, but not without first things first...gameplay.

 

[Nathan]

There is no reason you can't have action oriented gameplay and deep and engrossing story. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Solidus]

There is no reason you can't have action oriented gameplay and deep and engrossing story. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I never said they were.

It's just not FF. You want action oriented go play all the other million of games that try to do the same thing.

Turn-based combat is the core element of gameplay in FF. I tire of watering it down to appease action hungry western audiences. It would be like turning Mario into a action brawling game and say deal with it. FF is not real time action oriented, turn based combat was always it's staple. It's what makes FF, FF, and did for the majority of their titles.

 

[Nathan]

Like there are tons of other games with action focus, there are also tons of games with turn based combat. That alone didn't make Final Fantasy as great as it is. Their Final Fantasy games always had that bit of magic. Something that they gradually lost over the years.

 

[Iceman]

I never said they were.

It's just not FF. You want action oriented go play all the other million of games that try to do the same thing.

Turn-based combat is the core element of gameplay in FF. I tire of watering it down to appease action hungry western audiences. It would be like turning Mario into a action brawling game and say deal with it. FF is not real time action oriented, turn based combat was always it's staple. It's what makes FF, FF, and did for the majority of their titles.

I totally understand what you're saying here but....the appeal of the best FF titles was not just the gameplay. A guy who doesn't play RPGs at all can enjoy those games without loving the gameplay because they are amazing overall packages which were strong in all areas, and deservedly at the very peak of gaming in their time. FF XIII was way too linear on top of having an unengaging story & characters. I didn't even think it looked that good relative to other FF games for the time they came out. All of that also contributed to its losing popularity along with gameplay complaints. (I prefer the old gameplay style too btw)

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

They make XV look like it's Uncharted or God of War in the trailers and I don't like that. It's like they keep studying the west and learning the wrong lessons: "Westerners want highly linear scripted set-pieces constantly, let's make a game that's just like that" and "let's add a lot of button mashing in there too." I really doubt it'll be as sophisticated as a recent Tales game, especially since in Tales you can crank the difficulty up and really put your skill and strategy to the test in a fighting-game esque battle system. But all that is a big departure from what FF used to be about: turn-based combat or a timer-based turn-based system (ATB). What is the identity of FF going forward? It started losing some cohesion after FF6 on SNES I think. And then the subscription-only MMO came which was like a knife in the gut.

Also from what I've read every single playable character in FFXV is male. There are no playable females in XV unless I misunderstood something or they've changed it. Is that another attempt to appeal to the Dudebro westerners who instantly reject games like FFX-2?

 

[Solidus]

Like there are tons of other games with action focus, there are also tons of games with turn based combat. That alone didn't make Final Fantasy as great as it is. Their Final Fantasy games always had that bit of magic. Something that they gradually lost over the years.

Compared to action games? No there is more action games then turn based. Yes it was because of the overall package, but like most games...the gameplay is the core element of it. It was not "magic" it was just a great team back then that made great gameplay from FFI-FFX that was extremely similar and worked just great with unique tweaks in each one. I'm not denying that it was also the production values with story/music etc.

And one thing that coincides with all of that was getting rid of the traditional gameplay after FFX. But yes other things fell as well. But again gameplay is what makes a game a game at it's core, otherwise it's just a long film. Getting rid of that hurt FF and they've tried to make the games more like the western style games and blame it on that aspect.

I totally understand what you're saying here but....the appeal of the best FF titles was not just the gameplay. A guy who doesn't play RPGs at all can enjoy those games without loving the gameplay because they are amazing overall packages which were strong in all areas, and deservedly at the very peak of gaming in their time. FF XIII was way too linear on top of having an unengaging story & characters. I didn't even think it looked that good relative to other FF games for the time they came out. All of that also contributed to its losing popularity along with gameplay complaints. (I prefer the old gameplay style too btw)

What contributed to it loosing it's luster was going away from what made them work. SE has been good about blaming everything else under the sun instead of their own incompetence. For the past decade they've tried to make their games appeal more to the US and funny enough it has pushed their sales down in that territory in the long haul. Also it has hurt the FF name, back in the day we all would jump up and down, now no one even bats an eye.

The main appeal was the gameplay. I'm sorry. Back in the day of old FF....story was not really thick or as engaging as some have become. I'm not saying they were bad, but again...without gameplay you have a really cheesy long movie. Gameplay is the core of all games. It's what started them and continues them forward.

Now was the other things a big part? Yes of course it was a great package all together. The old FF had great everything, but one thing in common was the gameplay. Sadly they have lost way with everything and not just the gameplay. But first they need to go back to the core gameplay and go from there. I do agree they need to work on everything, but the gameplay is the massive gaping hole in what used to be FF.

 

[Nathan]

Also from what I've read every single playable character in FFXV is male. There are no playable females in XV unless I misunderstood something or they've changed it. Is that another attempt to appeal to the Dudebro westerners who instantly reject games like FFX-2?

Wow, if that's true, that's disappointing. Especially if it's really them trying to cater to the "dude bros". In Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I actually had more fun as the female characters. And the only reason I was put off by X-2, was because I thought X had a satisfying conclusion, and the fact that I got a Charlie's Angels vibe from it all.

 

[Solidus]

They make XV look like it's Uncharted or God of War in the trailers and I don't like that. It's like they keep studying the west and learning the wrong lessons: "Westerners want highly linear scripted set-pieces constantly, let's make a game that's just like that" and "let's add a lot of button mashing in there too." I really doubt it'll be as sophisticated as a recent Tales game, especially since in Tales you can crank the difficulty up and really put your skill and strategy to the test in a fighting-game esque battle system. But all that is a big departure from what FF used to be about: turn-based combat or a timer-based turn-based system (ATB). What is the identity of FF going forward? It started losing some cohesion after FF6 on SNES I think. And then the subscription-only MMO came which was like a knife in the gut.

Also from what I've read every single playable character in FFXV is male. There are no playable females in XV unless I misunderstood something or they've changed it. Is that another attempt to appeal to the Dudebro westerners who instantly reject games like FFX-2?

I agree with a lot of this. I really hope after FFXV they really try to back to their roots. One thing I've always admired about Nintendo is they don't try to change all their big game properties just to appease current trends in certain territories.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

There Aren’t Any Playable Female Characters in Final Fantasy XV Right Now
July 8, 2013

Typically, Final Fantasy games feature at least one leading lady in the playable cast. VII had Aerith and Tifa; X had Yuna, Rikku, and Lulu; XII had Ashe, Fran, and Penelo; XIII, of course, had Lightning. But Final Fantasy XV won’t have any playable females in the main party, according to Tetsuya Nomura.

Unfortunately, he wouldn’t really go into specifics… but you can see his answer on the subject by clicking below.

His answer was short and cryptic, but definitely affirmed the negative:

I can’t say anything specific now but it would be… quite difficult, to have a girl playable.

I know a large part the wide appeal of Final Fantasy titles has been the wide range of playable protagonists, so I think narrowing that range to simply male characters would be a bad move. Yes, I know it’s heavily action-driven, but that shouldn’t be a reason to restrict the kinds of characters who can appear.

http://www.gengame.net/2013/07/ther...ale-characters-in-final-fantasy-xv-right-now/

Final Fantasy XV‘s main group of playable characters are all male. Asked if there would be any playable female characters, Nomura said, “I can’t say anything specific now but it would be… quite difficult, to have a girl playable.”

http://gematsu.com/2013/07/nomura-talks-final-fantasy-xv-kingdom-hearts-iii-at-japan-expo

 

[Iceman]

What contributed to it loosing it's luster was going away from what made them work. SE has been good about blaming everything else under the sun instead of their own incompetence. For the past decade they've tried to make their games appeal more to the US and funny enough it has pushed their sales down in that territory in the long haul. Also it has hurt the FF name, back in the day we all would jump up and down, now no one even bats an eye.

Agreed on all this.

The main appeal was the gameplay. I'm sorry. Back in the day of old FF....story was not really thick or as engaging as some have become. I'm not saying they were bad, but again...without gameplay you have a really cheesy long movie. Gameplay is the core of all games. It's what started them and continues them forward.

We're not talking about gameplay vs no gameplay. We're talking different styles for eg in a different game it could just be lowering difficulty to make it more accessible to new gamers which could piss off fans. Sometimes it's a balancing act rather than a correct/incorrect way to do it with classic gameplay always coming out on top.

All game elements matter nowadays and FF would be nowhere near my favourite game of the VII - VIII era if it were just gameplay and beating minions and bosses with your group with little else (the non battle gameplay is just picking up **** from people's houses lol). I probably wouldn't even be much of a gamer if you took out the story element of campaigns. Sephiroth to this day gets nominated for best all time game villain. In the older FFs before VII gameplay was obviously a much bigger part of the pie as production standards for cinematics were not developed.

Now was the other things a big part? Yes of course it was a great package all together. The old FF had great everything, but one thing in common was the gameplay. Sadly they have lost way with everything and not just the gameplay. But first they need to go back to the core gameplay and go from there. I do agree they need to work on everything, but the gameplay is the massive gaping hole in what used to be FF.

I didn't actually read much about FF XIII fan opinions at the time so you probably know better than me but is that the main thing everyone complained about (on the internet at least). I prefer the old style gameplay so I'd be quite happy for them to go back to it as long as they also take care of everything else that went wrong. They had the best game of the time (IMO) so no need to look to others on how to get to the top, you already had the magic.

 

[Iceman]

Also from what I've read every single playable character in FFXV is male. There are no playable females in XV unless I misunderstood something or they've changed it. Is that another attempt to appeal to the Dudebro westerners who instantly reject games like FFX-2?

That's disappointing & surprising if it stays like that.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I think Noctis could be cool and it's time they had a male main for a while. Not some imposter like Vaan trying to cloud Ashe's story like in XII. And while there are female characters in the story of XV, it would be pretty weird if one or two wouldn't end up as party members. I can understand X-2, it had only 3 playable characters total and was doing the whole female JPOP group thing. I don't know what a good excuse (appealing to those who don't like girls at all doesn't count) would be for having all these party members in XV and having not a single woman.

 

[Nathan]

Compared to action games? No there is more action games then turn based.

I knew I should have specifically mentioned RPGs.

And one thing that coincides with all of that was getting rid of the traditional gameplay after FFX. But yes other things fell as well. But again gameplay is what makes a game a game at it's core, otherwise it's just a long film. Getting rid of that hurt FF and they've tried to make the games more like the western style games and blame it on that aspect.

Yes, a game without a core element is just a Movie. That's very insightful. But will it be a good movie, or a boring one? Maybe Square-Enix should have stuck to their guns and just remained doing the same old thing. It obviously doesn't hurt Nintendo. Though most of their games don't focus on telling you an engaging story. But would that have changed the future drastically, or would we still be here, complaining about the decline of Final Fantasy games, but just not complain about the changed gameplay as much?

If there's a problem is that they simply lack united focus and direction. Which was XIII's biggest problem in production. Heck, at the time the Trailer Premiered in 2006, they didn't have any sort of gameplay in place, and the problem was that not many shared the vision of what XIII should be like.

Problems started during Final Fantasy XIII's first reveal at 2006's E3, with the vision first set out not receiving universal backing from the team. "The trailer was merely a visual concept, and we had not yet created anything playable at that point," the interview admits, "However, it became clear that, at the time, there were actually very few members who saw the trailer as a representation of what we wanted to achieve with Final Fantasy XIII. This lack of a shared vision became the root of many conflicts that arose later in development."

That is the root of all problems. As long as they have a clear vision that everyone can agree on, I feel it wouldn't matter what the core gameplay is like. Turned based, action oriented, freaking Angry Birds tablet style, as long as everything comes together, it would be a great game.

 

[Nathan]

I think Noctis could be cool and it's time they had a male main for a while. Not some imposter like Vaan trying to cloud Ashe's story like in XII.

Knowing that Vaan wasn't even supposed to be in the game, annoys me so much. He was only put in the game, when the new director came aboard and thought the game needed a young character that all the young gamers can relate to.

 

[X Knight]

hmmmmm......Stella seems like an interesting character, so was hoping she would have been a playable character.

actually, since the story seems to have a Romeo + Juliet vibe, I was hoping they'd make both Noctis and Stella playable mains, so you can experience the story from 2 different perspectives.

hopefully, if XV is a hit ( and if it ever comes out.....lol ), maybe there will be a spin off with Stella as the main character.

 

[Solidus]

I knew I should have specifically mentioned RPGs.



Yes, a game without a core element is just a Movie. That's very insightful. But will it be a good movie, or a boring one? Maybe Square-Enix should have stuck to their guns and just remained doing the same old thing. It obviously doesn't hurt Nintendo. Though most of their games don't focus on telling you an engaging story. But would that have changed the future drastically, or would we still be here, complaining about the decline of Final Fantasy games, but just not complain about the changed gameplay as much?

If there's a problem is that they simply lack united focus and direction. Which was XIII's biggest problem in production. Heck, at the time the Trailer Premiered in 2006, they didn't have any sort of gameplay in place, and the problem was that not many shared the vision of what XIII should be like.

That is the root of all problems. As long as they have a clear vision that everyone can agree on, I feel it wouldn't matter what the core gameplay is like. Turned based, action oriented, freaking Angry Birds tablet style, as long as everything comes together, it would be a great game.

That's the problem though, almost 95% of video game stories would be terrible without the interactive/gameplay component. There are very few that I would think would translate directly to good films. The gameplay is what most fans complain about. Even Wada tried to liken XII to action games, and XIII to COD. To try and entice a new audience. Again that would be like making Mario a brawler action game. It would not really be Mario. If they want to make action style RPG's and give them a different name like "Final Fight" okay. But to many FF has a legacy, a long legacy of being great JRPG turn based games. It is a combo of things but one of the things that keep FFI-X on peoples minds is the engaging gameplay that keeps you coming back for more. Even just watching some of the earlier FF games without gameplay would not be as good. Very few video game stories have even gotten to A class movie levels. Naughty Dog has been one of the few to do so.

The gameplay heightens the stories because you do engage with them, with boring gameplay it can make even a great story boring itself especially if it is the length of most FF games.

As Magnar says for over the past decade they've been trying to entice Western gamers (even though they forgot they had them from 97-2001 in their pockets). Or more casual gamers, by trying to adopt things that really don't belong in an traditional RPG.

The story is an important part, but it's again I know I'm repeating myself but it's not the core element. Gameplay is. If you have boring gameplay then 70% of the game will be boring as hell no matter how engaging of a story it is. Most would (and have) just go on Youtube and watch the story cinematics rather than actually play it. Just so they can know what happened instead of spending 40 hours playing subpar gameplay.

 

[Havok83]

The most important thing they need to do is go back to I-X and look at the gameplay. Once they go back to their roots in terms of gameplay, that will be the biggest thing to get me back. The overall package matters as well, but what post X has really done is turn away from the genre it was. Though hopefully X for the Wii U satisfies me for the time being.

since when is X coming to the Wii U? First I heard of that

 

[Solidus]

since when is X coming to the Wii U? First I heard of that

Not FFX.

I meant X (The Xenoblade sequel).

Sorry about that I should have been more clear.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I don't think X is actually a sequel to Xenoblade

 

[Solidus]

I don't think X is actually a sequel to Xenoblade

I thought the devs had said that it was. Hmm well it very well may not be but same devs I guess.

 

[Iceman]

Anyone getting Lightning Returns anytime near release?

 

[Donut]

I plan on Gameflying it

 

[zenith16]

Square Enix Responds To Final Fantasy XV And Kingdom Hearts III Rumor

By Spencer . January 31, 2014 . 3:29pmYou may have heard about a document from Square Enix Europe that pegs Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III for release in 2014. In a statement sent to Siliconera, Square Enix says the release schedule is inaccurate.

You may have heard about a document from Square Enix Europe that pegs Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III for release in 2014. In a statement sent to Siliconera, Square Enix says the release schedule is inaccurate.

"We’re aware an internal document has been in circulation listing release dates for select Square Enix titles. This information contained in this document is inaccurate and features placeholder timing. Specifically – no announcement has been made to date for Kingdom Hearts III and Final Fantasy XV – their projected release window remains to be advised.”

Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts III were revealed at E3 2013 as titles in development for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.​

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source: Siliconera