The Offical Final Fantasy Game Thread

[Solidus]

Love amongst internet fandom, perhaps, but does that translate to hatred amongst the more general population? I'm not sure. It seems to me to mirror the hate that COD gets from the internet fandom each and every installment, yet, they always release to huge sales time and time again. I feel the multi-plat thing didn't matter so much, it was a much more fractured install base than the PS2 era.

We'll see. Internet fandom is really only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of actual sales and opinion. I have a feeling that FFXV will be as relatively big big as any of it's predecessors, and the "damage" will remain mostly within the internet fandom.

Also if SE is not losing fans, then why have they been in Damage Control for the past year after firing Wada? Almost every interview I've seen with them has been about how they've "Changed". So they even notice/worry about it so I don't think it's completely unfounded.

I think there is truth in what your saying but not all the time. There are times that the internet is correct, and is in line with how many feel. I still think XV could be big, especially since it's the first "next gen" one. And we always hope for the best.

There are times though that the Internet shines light and does represent a good deal of people. This one may be to early to tell, so I won't try to pretend otherwise. But I think a lot of the base is upset, and that can be a big deal.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Square was like more or less every Japanese company this gen: side swiped by HD development which saw a lot of budgets balloon and maybe more so, the shift in tastes. Now, FFXIII did have a role in this, but not because of the game itself (which was a big success despite all the hate), but the whole Crystal project thing which ballooned in budget and saw too many set-backs (such as Versus XIII).

I think it's a fairly dangerous thing to think the internet, in the sense of internet fandom, shines light on anything. The biggest web forum, to my knowledge, is NeoGAF, which has 100,000 registered users I believe. We'll be generous and say 80,000 of them are active. We'll continue to be generous and say 45,000 of them are FF fans. In the grand scheme of things, that's pretty much nothing when we're talking about games that sell in the millions of copies. It's a very tiny voice.

I just can't help but look at what goes around the internet and see how it contradicts what I'm seeing. If FFXIII were half as bad as most internet fandom proposes, it would've killed the franchise. Or, at least, it wouldn't have sold half of what it originally did. There's just too big of a difference for me to jibe with that claim.

 

[Solidus]

Again, not necessarily. Hype can surround something, like I myself bought XIII, but with XV I am going to be much more weary. Before XIII I would just say...yep FF, I'll get it. But now, I will be more careful. So saying that XIII did well, so that proves you wrong means nothing.

But again, why would Square be talking about "change" so much? They know that many are upset. They even created that team that will "ensure quality" etc. I think they themselves know that it is a slippery slope. Most the copies of XIII were sold quite quickly. And I'm sorry, if XIII was not as bad as you would say still regardless XIII-2 and XIII-3 would have done much better then they did. FFXHD sold more then FFXIII-3 in Japan in one day then XIII-3 did in 3 months.

So ya, I think there is more signs then just saying...well XIII did good in sales. Ya many films have done that too, and it takes until the next one where it may get hit. But again, I'm not saying FF is "dead" but I think it's on a downward slope.

 

[Nathan]

FFXIII sold because of the name. It's as simple as that. With a lot of games, I often wait for reviews, rent them first, or wait for word of mouth. With FFXIII, I didn't. Why? Because it's Final Fantasy.

The name always stood for epic, quality, adventures. It was the go to rpg franchise. Hours were spent talking about the game with friends. What boss we beat, how we beat them, where hidden chests and items were, how far along in the story we were, who our favorite characters were, etc. I only started with FFVII back in the day, where the FF hype was undoubtedly at its biggest. But each subsequent release, was still pretty much an event. The franchise might have hit a slight bump in the road with XII, but it was still a much better game than XIII could ever hope to be.

If you think XIII sold so well, because it was such a great FF game, how do you explain that XIII-2 only sold half of what XIII sold? Wouldn't more people buy the sequel, because the first one was so great? And the 2nd sequel, Lightning Returns, barely even sold a million units.

Square-Enix is really a shadow of its former selves. They went from a company that stood for quality games, to a company that churns out heaps of sequels and spin-offs, that frankly no one asked for.

 

[Solidus]

Ya I have to agree. For 20 years before FFXIII FF was a staple of quality. You just knew you were getting a great game, and could blind buy it. I did the same thing as Nathan. But now...ya I think I will wait for reviews. The name is so engrained with quality, I think it will take a while (if they continue the course they have for the past 10 years) for that to dwindle.

 

[Havok83]

Heck the FF X remaster sold better on the PS3 and Vita than Lightning Returns did on PS3 and 360

 

[Tron Bonne]

If you think XIII sold so well, because it was such a great FF game, how do you explain that XIII-2 only sold half of what XIII sold? Wouldn't more people buy the sequel, because the first one was so great? And the 2nd sequel, Lightning Returns, barely even sold a million units.

Are they really losing FF fans like flies, though? Internet fandom seems to spread that idea, but XIII was still a very big seller. Yes, there was drop off for the sequels, but there was drop off between X and X-2, which tells me there's just less people interested in the spin-offs than the mainline titles.

So, what, did the drop off between X and X-2 also show that he franchise was dead one that FFX was a ****** game? No, it tells me people are a lot less interested in spin-offs than mainline titles, which is generally the case with most franchises anyway.

And I don't think FFXIII did well. It sold 7-8 million copies, so it did very well. Unless I'm mistaken about that number. If I am, feel free to correct me.

Again, not necessarily. Hype can surround something, like I myself bought XIII, but with XV I am going to be much more weary. Before XIII I would just say...yep FF, I'll get it. But now, I will be more careful. So saying that XIII did well, so that proves you wrong means nothing.

But again, why would Square be talking about "change" so much? They know that many are upset. They even created that team that will "ensure quality" etc. I think they themselves know that it is a slippery slope. Most the copies of XIII were sold quite quickly. And I'm sorry, if XIII was not as bad as you would say still regardless XIII-2 and XIII-3 would have done much better then they did. FFXHD sold more then FFXIII-3 in Japan in one day then XIII-3 did in 3 months.

So ya, I think there is more signs then just saying...well XIII did good in sales. Ya many films have done that too, and it takes until the next one where it may get hit. But again, I'm not saying FF is "dead" but I think it's on a downward slope.

I don't why the sequels point keeps coming up in this argument, I addressed it already. Or are we going to say that X was similarly hated because we saw a drop of 3 million or so between X and X-2? We probably would've see a drop with X-3, too, had it been made.

And you're not following my argument here if you think my whole point is just that XIII did well (and I don't know why it is we're trying to make this like it's up in the air; the game did do well as far as I know). There's a huge amount of hype around XV. For a franchise that's so damaged, how in the world would anyone care about the sequel. Spinning it as people grasping for redemption is a very big stretch. And hell, if XIII was so damn damaging, why would they remake Versus XIII as XV? Everyone is going to know that the game originated within the XIII projects. Also, why hasn't Square completely disavowed XIII? Or canceled every XIII project after the first game?

There's a lot of stark reality that contrasts what the internet fandom is trying to paint. I already mentioned why I feel Square is going through the changes it is. I don't think them saying stuff about quality control matters anyway, that stuff is just clear adlib.

 

[Havok83]

And you're not following my argument here if you think my whole point is just that XIII did well (and I don't know why it is we're trying to make this like it's up in the air; the game did do well as far as I know). There's a huge amount of hype around XV. For a franchise that's so damaged, how in the world would anyone care about the sequel. Spinning it as people grasping for redemption is a very big stretch. And hell, if XIII was so damn damaging, why would they remake Versus XIII as XV? Everyone is going to know that the game originated within the XIII projects. Also, why hasn't Square completely disavowed XIII? Or canceled every XIII project after the first game?

.

bc SE had been developing it for years by the time the rebranding was announced. Thats a lot of money, time and resources poured into it with absolutely no return. They'd be losing millions if they had just abandoned the project at this point. It makes a lot more sense to remove the XIII branding from it and continue on with developing it than cancelling it, which is what they have been doing with the games originally part of the XIII line, outside of the direct sequels of course

And as for that game, people always looked at it differently bc the main team working on it was the Kingdom Hearts team, not the one that did XIII. They werent held accountable for the dissapointments that XIII and its sequels brought bc they werent responsible for it. People loved Kingdom Hearts and its gameplay, hence why they were looking forward to what this group had to offer for FF. People hadnt written them off yet bc they havent released the game yet to dissapoint anyone

 

[Solidus]

So, what, did the drop off between X and X-2 also show that he franchise was dead one that FFX was a ****** game? No, it tells me people are a lot less interested in spin-offs than mainline titles, which is generally the case with most franchises anyway.

And I don't think FFXIII did well. It sold 7-8 million copies, so it did very well. Unless I'm mistaken about that number. If I am, feel free to correct me.



I don't why the sequels point keeps coming up in this argument, I addressed it already. Or are we going to say that X was similarly hated because we saw a drop of 3 million or so between X and X-2? We probably would've see a drop with X-3, too, had it been made.

And you're not following my argument here if you think my whole point is just that XIII did well (and I don't know why it is we're trying to make this like it's up in the air; the game did do well as far as I know). There's a huge amount of hype around XV. For a franchise that's so damaged, how in the world would anyone care about the sequel. Spinning it as people grasping for redemption is a very big stretch. And hell, if XIII was so damn damaging, why would they remake Versus XIII as XV? Everyone is going to know that the game originated within the XIII projects. Also, why hasn't Square completely disavowed XIII? Or canceled every XIII project after the first game?

There's a lot of stark reality that contrasts what the internet fandom is trying to paint. I already mentioned why I feel Square is going through the changes it is. I don't think them saying stuff about quality control matters anyway, that stuff is just clear adlib.

Still your argument makes no sense. It really doesn't. Oh XIII-2 did not do well….with not really any reason other then X2 did not do as well. If XIII was as loved I’m sure it would have done better, same even with X which I think is still not as loved as some of the previous. Pointing to X-2 not doing well either I think was also showmanship of that game which I did not care for. See the problem is, even in your own argument, you are the internet, so you just may be as wrong. Saying well…sales! Well I don’t put it past people to buy crap. Franchise names can be strong. And that was the point we are making earlier. But they can be pushed down some pegs, and if they continue to go that way the worse it can become.

Seriously you think the general audience you speak of will know that it XV was XIII Versus lol. Come on really? Trust me they don’t care, they look at advertising. They won’t know that, and I know some hardcore gamers that don’t even know that. There is always hope for another better game with a loved deeply rooted franchise. So we always hope for the return of their glory. And if XV is good, I’m sure it will do well.


But again for the millionth time…even Square is running around saying “We are changing things!” they would not be saying that if it was just some small little faction of the internet that felt a certain way.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Still your argument makes no sense. It really doesn't. Oh XIII-2 did not do well….with not really any reason other then X2 did not do as well. If XIII was as loved I’m sure it would have done better, same even with X which I think is still not as loved as some of the previous. Pointing to X-2 not doing well either I think was also showmanship of that game which I did not care for. See the problem is, even in your own argument, you are the internet, so you just may be as wrong. Saying well…sales! Well I don’t put it past people to buy crap. Franchise names can be strong. And that was the point we are making earlier. But they can be pushed down some pegs, and if they continue to go that way the worse it can become.

My argument is not that XIII is necessarily loved, just that it's not universally hated or that it damaged the franchise of Final Fantasy based on what a small and vocal group of internet fandom is trying to say. So, yes, sales are a very big part of going beyond people on the internet are saying. It doesn't matter if you or I or whoever thinks it's crap. That really doesn't factor into the argument of how 'damaged' the Final Fantasy really is.

The sequels point goes both ways, yes, but both you and Nathan are trying to use to validate your point just because the sales have gone down between the FFXIII sequel that it's hated or damaged, and I pointed to X (a game that was well reviewed and well liked by fans) as an example of why that doesn't validate that point. Unless we're going to do some jumps and hops here and say that X was **** and it damaged the brand, too. I think if you go there, though, the point is going to start unraveling.

Seriously you think the general audience you speak of will know that it XV was XIII Versus lol. Come on really? Trust me they don’t care, they look at advertising. They won’t know that, and I know some hardcore gamers that don’t even know that. There is always hope for another better game with a loved deeply rooted franchise. So we always hope for the return of their glory. And if XV is good, I’m sure it will do well.

Fair enough on this point.

But again for the millionth time…even Square is running around saying “We are changing things!” they would not be saying that if it was just some small little faction of the internet that felt a certain way.

No company that has made bad decisions is going to say, "Oh yeah, we're just going to keep doing the same thing." or "Yeah, we aren't going to do quality control on our games, if they come out **** then they're ****, if they're good, they're good. It's all cool."

It's just basic PR. Is there fans in mind with that? sure, I can buy that, but it goes way beyond some small, vocal group on the internet. That's for the press, for stockholders, for anyone with a casual interest in the company who may come across articles about Square. To be honest, I think trying to take this very general statement as some validation that the FF franchise is tarnished by XIII is a very big stretch. There's much more problems going on with them as a company. If anything, I think FF is probably one of their last mines left.

And yes, I am aware that I am posting on the internet, but I am posting about things that go over that in this argument as well. Things like sales, hype of FFXV, despite the complte disinterest in JRPGs in the west, and how FFXIII was not disavowed by the company itself. This tells me the damaging of the brand is very exaggerated.

I return to the COD example. It gets **** on with every installment. NeoGAF, the biggest gaming forum on the net, constantly craps on it. There's little discussion of it when one releases. If you were to gauge success by the internet, the franchise would be dead. But, lo and behold, each time, they release to huge sellers, often breaking records. Sure, sometimes the internet fandom is in line with the general public, but there are definitely occasions where they are a very small voice screaming into the void and mistaking their echoes for millions of others. I feel it's the situation with COD, and the situation with FF. When XV releases, we'll see what happens. I think that's going to be a good determining factor on how damaged the brand is in the large scheme of things.

 

[Solidus]

My point was about how XIII if was as popular as some try to claim it would have done better. Yes X-2 did not do as well as X, but mainly because I remember many, including my friends did not care as much for it. And yes, I think it shows the “first” of a next gen always get a little bump of hype no matter what. I don’t think SE is destroyed, but I still will stand by that it is hurting, and if it continues down this path it will get worse. I think with big franchises that have been known for a long time for quality it takes longer for the GA, to start to understand that. Like I said before I bought XIII blindly because of my trust of the franchise, but now that is shaken. It was a tad shaken with X-2 and-XIII actually.

It’s not a stretch that SE is trying to show change. It’s not just basic PR. When Wada was in control it was more like: “Screw you, buy our games or we won’t make any more”. I mean they even created a FF “quality control” part of their company. And during that they claimed they wanted to ensure quality with future products of FF after Wada left. I doubt they would create that and hype that up if they felt FF was okay and fine and dandy. Again I’m not saying it’s dead, but it is on a downward slope. XV may carry it back up.

As for the Internet I agree. Most the time it can be just whining, and really pointless bickering that comes from it. No doubts there. But there are times as you said that it lines up, or realizes things before the GA does. Then it starts to seep into that. I think at times there is positive sides of the Internet where the changes they demand is more constructive. And I believe this is one of those times.

I think XV will probably do well, but it will all come down to quality. Critics lost their patience with XIII, it was okay, but then the scores got worse and worse. The problem with most of the gaming community, especially journalism, I think it is more swayed by franchisees and hype, then the film industry critics. Gaming journalists seem to give points for something just being part of a franchise. Like COD etc. And that helps people go out and buy it. But with FF it seems with the last games they have had it, and the rose colored glasses of love for the FF may have faded, and now it may be that hype alone won’t be able to help future FF games. Now my point being, is that FFXV is actually good….awesome! But I don’t’ think critics will give it a good score because of hype/it’s FF anymore. So if it is legitimately good, I think it will stop the hurt on it, and do just fine, and people will look back at some of the past few games as a bump in the road.

 

[Nathan]

I think X-2 and XIII-2 aren't even comparable. FFX was a grant adventure, that had a satisfying conclusion. Sin was defeated, and Tidus got reunited in the afterlife with his dad. The adventure was done. FFX-2 was an unnecessary expansion, that wasn't the next epic adventure, and had a strong, quirky Charlie's Angel vibe, with 3 girls going on adventures. It's not surprising that some people were put off by the concept, and as a result sales weren't as high as FFX. It simply wasn't the next epic journey. It was basically a side quest.

XIII on the other hand, was part of the big Fabula Nova Crystallis project. You couldn't just play the first game, get to its conclusion, and then wait for the next epic FF adventure. No, you had to play XIII and its two sequels, to fully comprehend the story. And out of 8 million people that bought XIII, only 1 million cared enough to buy Lightning Returns, to experience XIII's story in its entirety.

 

[Nathan]

Vita Fans Are Pissed About Final Fantasy Type-0

I think fans are rightfully pissed. Finally the one game Square-Enix wouldn't release outside of Japan makes it overseas, and it turns from a handheld game, into a console game. And it's not like it gets released on all platforms. No, next-gen only. And it used to be a PSP game. It really is a bull**** move.

 

[Nathan]

FINAL FANTASY VII (Honest Game Trailers)
[YT]n0hVwfD_s-g[/YT]​

The 'because reasons' part got me.

 

[X Knight]

y'know....I'm still bitter because when they released the Versus trailer way back when, that played a HUGE role in my decision to get a PS3 ( in 2009 ). I mean, back then, it was a PS3 exclusive, and it looked AMAZING!!!

I was like......"Damn!! I have to get a PS3 to play THAT!!"

............fast forward 5 years later................yeah.

 

[Nathan]

I still can't believe they didn't even bother to show a Trailer this E3.

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm replaying FFVIII at the moment. I think looking to the past is a lot of what FF fans are going to have to do for fulfilling FF titles. I've owned XIII for about 2-3 years and haven't touched it after the first boss fight =/

Did anyone else see the FFVII G-Bike trailer? It's got all the FFVII remake acolytes out in force again.

 

[Bastila]

I wish they release lightning returns for next gen consoles, I loved that character and that last game was great, would love to reply it. Miss light and co.

 

[Havok83]

No, just no. Lightning needs to die with the release of LR. SE does not need to milk XIII anymore or into the next gen

 

[Benstamania]

Agreed!

 

[X Knight]

yeah. no more Lightning. please.

 

[Havok83]

Agreed!

yeah. no more Lightning. please.

Can you imagine all the groans SE would get if instead of showing FFXV footage at TGS, they instead put up a trailer for FFXIII: The Lightning Saga Remastered Collection?

 

[X Knight]

Can you imagine all the groans SE would get if instead of showing FFXV footage at TGS, they instead put up a trailer for FFXIII: The Lightning Saga Remastered Collection?

there'd be a ******* riot!!!!

 

[zenith16]

Final Fantasy Creator Hironobu Sakaguchi Will Discuss His Next Project At Japan Expo. June 26, 2014 . 9:31am

Final Fantasy creator and The Last Story director Hironobu Sakaguchi will be attending Japan Expo this year.

This year’s Japan Expo will take place from July 2nd – July 6th, and the convention has announced that Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi will be attending, and will discuss his latest project.

Just what this project is remains to be seen. Sakaguchi has been working primarily on smartphone games of late, such as Party Wave. The last console game he was actively involved in was The Last Story, developed in collaboration with Nintendo.

Sakaguchi will also participate in a signing session and photo shoot at Japan Expo.

source:siliconera

 

[MoPlaYa]

Who here plays FF14 online: A Realm Reborn on PS4?