The Official 2009-2010 NBA Thread: Where Playoffs Happen

[Wylie Times]

Kobe Bryant is/was hated for good reason. Despite having success early in his career with HOF coaches to learn from it took him a long time to grow up and stop acting like a self-absorbed jackass that was concerned about nothing but his own legacy.

Yes because the same thing can't be applied to Michael Jordan. Jordan was just as much of an ass as Kobe and for both of them it had MUCH more to do with winning than anything else, if you weren't putting forth full effort they were gonna **** on you. As for not listening to coaches Tex Winters and Jordan had more than a few disagreements too. They're both the exact same type of personalities.....You can throw Shaq into that category too.

 

[Hound55]

Yes because the same thing can't be applied to Michael Jordan. Jordan was just as much of an ass as Kobe and for both of them it had MUCH more to do with winning than anything else, if you weren't putting forth full effort they were gonna **** on you. As for not listening to coaches Tex Winters and Jordan had more than a few disagreements too. They're both the exact same type of personalities.....You can throw Shaq into that category too.

Shaq, Kobe and Jordan did NOT have the same type of personalities.

For starters if Shaq and Kobe both had the same type of personality they'd probably have gotten on fine...

Jordan was about winning.
Kobe was about self, winning second.
Shaq was about fun because winning came so ridiculously easy to him because he was so damn good that he didn't really think about it much.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Yes because the same thing can't be applied to Michael Jordan. Jordan was just as much of an ass as Kobe and for both of them it had MUCH more to do with winning than anything else, if you weren't putting forth full effort they were gonna **** on you. As for not listening to coaches Tex Winters and Jordan had more than a few disagreements too. They're both the exact same type of personalities.....You can throw Shaq into that category too.

Just because Jordan was an ass it's ok for Kobe to be one too? I never liked that mentality and I'm not going to excuse Kobe for it. Let's be honest. Jordan had 10x more hardships he had to overcome than Kobe. He arrived on a crap franchise that had nobody. He wasn't blessed with a HOF center, a great coach in Phil Jackson, a great teacher in Tex Winter, a deep team loaded with veterans. He had to claw his way up the ladder and take his lumps.

Kobe had the much easier road, early success, great basketball minds around him and still turned into an ass. If anything Kobe should have had the blueprint for success to NOT act like Jordan. It took him 10+ seasons just to mature into any semblance of a leader which is ridiculous.

I look at a youngster like Lebron in comparison and in his early 20's his maturity was off the charts in terms of leading a team. His teammates love him for good reason. Lebron hasn't quit on his team in the 2nd half of a Game 7 because the chips were down. He hasn't called radio press conferences to cry, throw teammates under the bus and demand a trade. Like I said before, Kobe has been hated for good reason. He's always been about himself and his legacy.

 

[Bob ROARman!]

Yes because the same thing can't be applied to Michael Jordan. Jordan was just as much of an ass as Kobe and for both of them it had MUCH more to do with winning than anything else, if you weren't putting forth full effort they were gonna **** on you. As for not listening to coaches Tex Winters and Jordan had more than a few disagreements too. They're both the exact same type of personalities.....You can throw Shaq into that category too.

That couldn't be any more wrong.

Michael was about winning at any expense, including the team and coaches. Like he said, there is an "I" in win. That's all he was about, ever, and like Pippen said, there's a price to pay for that.

Kobe for a long time was about "I'ma get mine, **** y'all".

 

[Fresh Prince]

Kobe Bryant is/was hated for good reason. Despite having success early in his career with HOF coaches to learn from it took him a long time to grow up and stop acting like a self-absorbed jackass that was concerned about nothing but his own legacy.

And Micheal was not like that when he was young? Phil JAckson had to tell Jordan to pass the damn ball so his other teammates can contribute.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Just because Jordan was an ass it's ok for Kobe to be one too? I never liked that mentality and I'm not going to excuse Kobe for it. Let's be honest. Jordan had 10x more hardships he had to overcome than Kobe. He arrived on a crap franchise that had nobody. He wasn't blessed with a HOF center, a great coach in Phil Jackson, a great teacher in Tex Winter, a deep team loaded with veterans. He had to claw his way up the ladder and take his lumps.

Kobe had the much easier road, early success, great basketball minds around him and still turned into an ass. If anything Kobe should have had the blueprint for success to NOT act like Jordan. It took him 10+ seasons just to mature into any semblance of a leader which is ridiculous.

I look at a youngster like Lebron in comparison and in his early 20's his maturity was off the charts in terms of leading a team. His teammates love him for good reason. Lebron hasn't quit on his team in the 2nd half of a Game 7 because the chips were down. He hasn't called radio press conferences to cry, throw teammates under the bus and demand a trade. Like I said before, Kobe has been hated for good reason. He's always been about himself and his legacy.

Micheal did not do all that hard work, I mean Chicago got to the playoffs in his first year, so right off the bat they was a solid team. Yeah Jordan got them their, but they was a solid team still, had a few and I mean few good players.

Jordan did go to a no named franchise, but first year he took them to the playoffs, were esle LBJ took him 2 years to take Cleveland to the playoffs. So Cleveland with LBJ had it worst then Jordan and the Bulls.

 

[Ziggyman]

Phoenix bought out Sasha Pavlovic...so they got absolutely nothing for Shaq?

 

[ComicChick]

Phoenix bought out Sasha Pavlovic...so they got absolutely nothing for Shaq?

they got cap space and room to try and get some of the big names going on the market next year

 

[Ziggyman]

they got cap space and room to try and get some of the big names going on the market next year

...So they've written off this year...Dammit...Nash is way too nice, he signed with them just to be loyal and play out his carreer...man, I wanted him to get a ring so badly!

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Micheal did not do all that hard work, I mean Chicago got to the playoffs in his first year, so right off the bat they was a solid team. Yeah Jordan got them their, but they was a solid team still, had a few and I mean few good players.

Jordan did go to a no named franchise, but first year he took them to the playoffs, were esle LBJ took him 2 years to take Cleveland to the playoffs. So Cleveland with LBJ had it worst then Jordan and the Bulls.

Are you for real? Did you see the records the Bulls had back then when they were making the playoffs? 38-44? 30-52? Most teams are thinking about the lottery with 30 wins lol. Solid team my ass

 

[ComicChick]

...So they've written off this year...Dammit...Nash is way too nice, he signed with them just to be loyal and play out his carreer...man, I wanted him to get a ring so badly!

i kinda get the feeling that they have. stoudemire's gone right. nash is a top notch dude as a player and class act. i get the feeling they'd be ok with a lottery pick and lots of money to make moves next yr

 

[Fresh Prince]

Are you for real? Did you see the records the Bulls had back then when they were making the playoffs? 38-44? 30-52? Most teams are thinking about the lottery with 30 wins lol. Solid team my ass

That was for 2 seasons about when they made the playoffs. And compared to the rest of the teams in the east, their were solid.

 

[Wylie Times]

That couldn't be any more wrong.

Michael was about winning at any expense, including the team and coaches. Like he said, there is an "I" in win. That's all he was about, ever, and like Pippen said, there's a price to pay for that.

Kobe for a long time was about "I'ma get mine, **** y'all".

No Kobe for a long time just didn't trust his teammates and sometimes with good reason. Those first few years without Shaq he was stuck with teammates who would miss wide open shots on a regular basis, after awhile Kobe would say "**** ya'll" and pretty much HAVE to do everything himself.

During the years he played with Shaq, despite the myth that "Kobe never passes the ball" he managed to lead the Lakers in assists in the playoffs.

Just to be clear I'm saying this as someone who is MUCH more of a Lakers fan than a crazed Kobe Bryant fan. There are a LOT of misconceptions about the team and how everything went down with Kobe and Shaq during the "break-up".

 

[Fresh Prince]

Shaq did some stuff too during that whole saga, was not just Kobe at fault. Shaq is cocky, arrogant and annoying.

 

[Anubis]

i kinda get the feeling that they have. stoudemire's gone right. nash is a top notch dude as a player and class act. i get the feeling they'd be ok with a lottery pick and lots of money to make moves next yr

I wonder who they will try to go for. Quite a few good players gonna be on the market and it doesn't look like they'll be going anywhere near that hot ass desert.

 

[Wylie Times]

Just because Jordan was an ass it's ok for Kobe to be one too? I never liked that mentality and I'm not going to excuse Kobe for it. Let's be honest. Jordan had 10x more hardships he had to overcome than Kobe. He arrived on a crap franchise that had nobody. He wasn't blessed with a HOF center, a great coach in Phil Jackson, a great teacher in Tex Winter, a deep team loaded with veterans. He had to claw his way up the ladder and take his lumps.

Never said nor implied that, I'm simply pointing out that Jordan gets a pass for basically having the same mentality.

You're other point is a bit off and it's not even something I brought up but since you did I'll address it.

First off Yes Kobe did have early success, all that stuff is true, he played with Shaq when he was his most dominate and had a world class coaching staff, what you fail to mention are the years he had NONE of that, when he had the likes of Chis Mihm, Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker STARTING. Kobe Managed to drag a bunch of bums kicking and screaming into the playoffs in the LOADED Western Conference.

You also seem to overlook the fact that Jordan didn't win anything until he got the great Scottie Pippen, a very good Horace grant, and the same coaching staff Kobe has had during his winning days.

As I said NOBODY wins alone, Not Jordan, not Kobe, not even Wilt Chamberlin could win on his own. It always takes two superstar players. Jordan is just the only one to do it without a dominate big man, but he still had Scottie freaking Pippen.

Kobe had the much easier road, early success, great basketball minds around him and still turned into an ass. If anything Kobe should have had the blueprint for success to NOT act like Jordan. It took him 10+ seasons just to mature into any semblance of a leader which is ridiculous.

Kobe had a much easier road TO success

I look at a youngster like Lebron in comparison and in his early 20's his maturity was off the charts in terms of leading a team. His teammates love him for good reason. Lebron hasn't quit on his team in the 2nd half of a Game 7 because the chips were down. He hasn't called radio press conferences to cry, throw teammates under the bus and demand a trade. Like I said before, Kobe has been hated for good reason. He's always been about himself and his legacy.

The game where "he quit" If they had lost that game with him trying to take over th game then everyone would have been *****ing about him being selfish again, damned if you do damned if you don't.

As a Lakers fan i'm GLAD he raised hell that offseason because frankly out front office was BS. HE had been thrown under the bus multiple times concerning the Shaq trade and Shaq even agreed with the stuff Kobe was saying. Our team need better players and the front office was passing up on Jason Kidd, KG and other good players because they didn't want to give up Bynum (who while better than some realize can't seem to stay healthy). Kobe lit of a fire under the younger guys AND the front office (we still lucked into Pau though).

Again I'm saying this stuff as a Lakers fan who has been following this stuff for years.

 

[Ziggyman]

I wonder who they will try to go for. Quite a few good players gonna be on the market and it doesn't look like they'll be going anywhere near that hot ass desert.

I see them going after Bosh...they might be done with Amare...

 

[Fresh Prince]

Never said nor implied that, I'm simply pointing out that Jordan gets a pass for basically having the same mentality.

You're other point is a bit off and it's not even something I brought up but since you did I'll address it.

First off Yes Kobe did have early success, all that stuff is true, he played with Shaq when he was his most dominate and had a world class coaching staff, what you fail to mention are the years he had NONE of that, when he had the likes of Chis Mihm, Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker STARTING. Kobe Managed to drag a bunch of bums kicking and screaming into the playoffs in the LOADED Western Conference.

You also seem to overlook the fact that Jordan didn't win anything until he got the great Scottie Pippen, a very good Horace grant, and the same coaching staff Kobe has had during his winning days.

As I said NOBODY wins alone, Not Jordan, not Kobe, not even Wilt Chamberlin could win on his own. It always takes two superstar players. Jordan is just the only one to do it without a dominate big man, but he still had Scottie freaking Pippen.



Kobe had a much easier road TO success



The game where "he quit" If they had lost that game with him trying to take over th game then everyone would have been *****ing about him being selfish again, damned if you do damned if you don't.

As a Lakers fan i'm GLAD he raised hell that offseason because frankly out front office was BS. HE had been thrown under the bus multiple times concerning the Shaq trade and Shaq even agreed with the stuff Kobe was saying. Our team need better players and the front office was passing up on Jason Kidd, KG and other good players because they didn't want to give up Bynum (who while better than some realize can't seem to stay healthy). Kobe lit of a fire under the younger guys AND the front office (we still lucked into Pau though).

Again I'm saying this stuff as a Lakers fan who has been following this stuff for years.

Wow LA could of gotten KG? Man they could of won the title then in 08 and this year aswell.

 

[Silver Knight]

Training camps open next week?

 

[Wylie Times]

Wow LA could of gotten KG? Man they could of won the title then in 08 and this year aswell.

They could have had a lot of different players at that time but every team wanted Bynum as part of a deal but Kupchak refused to give him up. Kobe ranting on the radio was about him being pissed that the front office wasn't doing ANYTHING and his teammates were playing piss poor. I doubt that it's just some odd coincidence that the following season the whole damn team stepped their game up and front office was busting their asses to bring someone in to help Kobe (The Candyman was here but he's always been inconsistent).

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Never said nor implied that, I'm simply pointing out that Jordan gets a pass for basically having the same mentality.

You're other point is a bit off and it's not even something I brought up but since you did I'll address it.

First off Yes Kobe did have early success, all that stuff is true, he played with Shaq when he was his most dominate and had a world class coaching staff, what you fail to mention are the years he had NONE of that, when he had the likes of Chis Mihm, Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker STARTING. Kobe Managed to drag a bunch of bums kicking and screaming into the playoffs in the LOADED Western Conference.

The years where Kobe had bums was part of his own doing. I'm not going to feel sorry for a guy who says he's "tired of being a sidekick". Kobe said his returning to the Lakers that season depended on what they did with Shaq. Kobe wanted to win on his terms because winning titles and being contenders every year wasn't enough for him. I'll never forget the first time I saw the cracks developing in LA. It was the season after LA won their first title. After Shaq leads the Lakers to a title Kobe decides it's time to get his and suddenly thinks it's ok to start jacking up an insane amount of shots and have duels with the other shooting guards in the league. I was thinking to myself how disrespectful is this kid to try to take the offensive reins from Shaq right after he leads them to a title? That's like Pippen coming back after the Bulls first title and thinking it's ok to take more shots than Jordan The grumbling started after Kobe shot 8-31 trying to duel with Ray Allen in a loss to the Bucks. The veterans on the team started questioning Kobe's shot selection and it just snowballed from there until 2004.

And speaking of Ray "Nostradamus" Allen he said this after Shaq got traded...

“He's (Kobe) going to be very selfish. And he feels like he needs to show this league and the people in this country that he is better without Shaq. He can win championships without Shaq. So offensively, he’s going to jump out and say, ‘I can average 30 points. I can still carry the load on this team.’ ”

“If Kobe doesn’t see he needs 2 good players to be a legitimate playoff contender or win a championship in about a year or two, he’ll be calling out to (Lakers owner) Jerry Buss that, ‘We need some help in here,’ or, ‘Trade me.’ And we’ll all be saying, ‘I told you so,’ when he says that.”

So in summary, Kobe having to carry a bunch of bums was part of his own doing and no one felt a bit sorry for him.

You also seem to overlook the fact that Jordan didn't win anything until he got the great Scottie Pippen, a very good Horace grant, and the same coaching staff Kobe has had during his winning days.

As I said NOBODY wins alone, Not Jordan, not Kobe, not even Wilt Chamberlin could win on his own. It always takes two superstar players. Jordan is just the only one to do it without a dominate big man, but he still had Scottie freaking Pippen.

That was kind of my point earlier about Kobe having the same advantages Jordan had which lead to his earlier success. However, Jordan became the better and more unselfish basketball player when he had those great coaches and basketball minds around him. Kobe with those same advantages didn't learn sh** during LA's title years. If anything he got MORE selfish, more petulant, and self-absorbed. It was always about him, never about the team. Shaq was the same way. Those two guys should have dominated the league like Pippen and Jordan but both were too stupid. Shaq at least tried to play the team game but by 2004 Kobe was nothing more than a chucking cancer.

The game where "he quit" If they had lost that game with him trying to take over th game then everyone would have been *****ing about him being selfish again, damned if you do damned if you don't.

Bullsh**. Sometimes I think people see the game only in terms of scoring. Scoring is not the only aspect to take over a game. You play defense, you rebound, you hustle your ass off and you try to make plays for your teammates. If they brick shots then so be it. At least you can say you gave your best effort. If he did that then no one is going to say "Kobe quit". What you don't do is confuse your teammates and pass the ball to them time and time again and stand at the top of the key like a freakin statue and pout for an entire 2nd half of a Game 7. You don't throw your teammates under the bus like that. Hell, if you're going to pass at least make a cut to the rim, try to post up, move without the ball, do SOMETHING. You're not getting paid 15-20 million a year to quit because times are tough.

As a Lakers fan i'm GLAD he raised hell that offseason because frankly out front office was BS. HE had been thrown under the bus multiple times concerning the Shaq trade and Shaq even agreed with the stuff Kobe was saying. Our team need better players and the front office was passing up on Jason Kidd, KG and other good players because they didn't want to give up Bynum (who while better than some realize can't seem to stay healthy). Kobe lit of a fire under the younger guys AND the front office (we still lucked into Pau though).

Again I'm saying this stuff as a Lakers fan who has been following this stuff for years.

Well, all he did was prove Ray Allen's point. He put himself in that position. And you should thank your lucky stars the Lakers didn't get Jason Kidd. The guy is old and his jumpshot has always been one of the worst in the league. Trading an interior presence like Bynum for a washed up former all-star PG with no jumpshot would have been beyond stupid. KG in LA was always a pipe dream. It's not like LA had a realistic chance at getting him. They would have had to send half their roster to Minny to get KG just to match his contract That sh** wasn't happening.

 

[Etienne]

...So they've written off this year...Dammit...Nash is way too nice, he signed with them just to be loyal and play out his carreer...man, I wanted him to get a ring so badly!

Nash had Terry Porter booted because he was asking the team to slow it down and play some defense. Stevie Nash *****ed to Kerr about Shaq's slow style of play which caused Phoenix to ship him out with the first offer they got. Yeah, he's a swell guy.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Training camps open next week?

Wow this early.

 

[nolan's roll'n]

Wow, this could really hurt or end Wade's career right here, if he gets this $150 million lawsuit attached to him. He is one of my favorite players right now and boy the NBA will lose one of their greatest stars and he will be missed. They will also lose one of their biggest fans, in me, if this does happen. Wow, life sucks!

 

[nolan's roll'n]

Nash had Terry Porter booted because he was asking the team to slow it down and play some defense. Stevie Nash *****ed to Kerr about Shaq's slow style of play which caused Phoenix to ship him out with the first offer they got. Yeah, he's a swell guy.

Shaq is arguably one of the best centers in the NBA of all-time, you talk about the '90's, 2000's both he dominated and will never be forgotten after his retirement comes in a few years. After the Cavs win a few titles back to back.