Ant-Man The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread - Part 2

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Crimson King said:
I don't see it as them being a bully at all. They make superhero movies and that's it. Those movies typically come out in the summer, so it stands to reason that they'd usually be ones to stake out summer dates, and since they have a plan that goes beyond the next movie in the pipeline, they can better predict when their movies will come out.

DC fired the first shot here by tossing out BvsS on a weekend they knew Marvel already had plans for. If Marvel stands their ground, DC will be the one to blame for the fragmented gross. It was kind of a jerk move.
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May 1st has proven to be superhero weekend. The public doesn't care if it is DC or Marvel, just that it's an epic superhero film to open the summer. Why wouldn't WB jump on that date? IM4 is not going to claim that. Dr. Strange isn't big enough to carry that slot. Why wouldn't WB want to capitalize on that? Why do they have to steer clear of Marvel when Marvel has made every attempt to infringe upon WB's mid July release?
 
Mr.M said:
May 1st has proven to be superhero weekend. The public doesn't care if it is DC or Marvel, just that it's an epic superhero film to open the summer. Why wouldn't WB jump on that date? IM4 is not going to claim that. Dr. Strange isn't big enough to carry that slot. Why wouldn't WB want to capitalize on that? Why do they have to steer clear of Marvel when Marvel has made every attempt to infringe upon WB's mid July release?
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Why wouldn't they jump on it? Maybe because there was already one scheduled for that weekend?

If the public doesn't care about anything except seeing an epic superhero movie, there's no reason that Marvel should shy away from using Dr. Strange, Ms. Marvel, or BP in that spot. Given the right story and director, any of those fit the bill. The MCU is big enough now that advertising something connected to that universe is enough to at least drum up decent weekend numbers.

DC knew what they were doing and they did it anyway. It's a business move that I understand, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a **** business move.

Also, if WB somehow has a lock on mid-July as you say, why can't Marvel have a lock on May 1st?
 
Crimson King said:
Why wouldn't they jump on it? Maybe because there was already one scheduled for that weekend?

If the public doesn't care about anything except seeing an epic superhero movie, there's no reason that Marvel should shy away from using Dr. Strange, Ms. Marvel, or BP in that spot. Given the right story and director, any of those fit the bill. The MCU is big enough now that advertising something connected to that universe is enough to at least drum up decent weekend numbers.

DC knew what they were doing and they did it anyway. It's a business move that I understand, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a **** business move.

Also, if WB somehow has a lock on mid-July as you say, why can't Marvel have a lock on May 1st?
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What was scheduled that weekend? Unannounced "Epic" Marvel movie that May or May Not Include a Top Avenger? Was that what WB was concerned about? Please.

The thing is, WB tried to lock mid July. Then Marvel got into the action with Cap taking off HP 8's back end. Now Fox has an Apes movie coming out in that slot, which they were previously holding with X-Men. In fact, Marvel wanted both Thor and Avengers for mid July until the writers strike pushed everything back a year. Everyone wants that slot after TDK. Now everyone wants May after Avengers. More power to them.
 
Dark Raven said:
When did Bond announce that? I thought they always go for the November release.
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Marvel/Disney announced Ant-Man would be released November 6th back in October 2012 then in July 2013 Sony announced Bond would be released the same date.
 
chamber-music said:
Marvel/Disney announced Ant-Man would be released November 6th back in October 2012 then in July 2013 Sony announced Bond would be released the same date.
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Ok, gotcha. I thought Sony were going to release Bond in the summer now, like in years gone by. That would be rather silly though. They did that with LTK in the summer of 1989 when there was Batman, Indiana Jones, Lethal Weapon 2 etc. I don't think they've done that since.
 
Mr.M said:
What was scheduled that weekend? Unannounced "Epic" Marvel movie that May or May Not Include a Top Avenger? Was that what WB was concerned about? Please.
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So you're saying that WB wasn't concerned with Marvel's movie at all? That they never gave it a second thought--didn't even know it was there, really--and that it wasn't gamesmanship?

Right.
 
Crimson King said:
So you're saying that WB wasn't concerned with Marvel's movie at all? That they never gave it a second thought--didn't even know it was there, really--and that it wasn't gamesmanship?

Right.
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How do you think the Spidey reboot felt? Spidey and Spidey 3 all had May 1st. Sony was the first to establish that official Marvel date, and they had to earn their stripes against the likes of Star Wars, Pirates of the Carribean, and the works.

Then the fat guy came in (Avengers) and said, "Sorry Sony, IM was a hit. Avengers is pretty much a slam dunk unlike your remake/reboot. It is what it is. Oh, you're also going to get sandwiched between the other fat guy (TDKR).

That's how the game works, and everyone plays it.
 
Mr.M said:
How do you think the Spidey reboot felt? Spidey and Spidey 3 all had May 1st. Sony was the first to establish that official Marvel date, and they had to earn their stripes against the likes of Star Wars, Pirates of the Carribean, and the works.

Then the fat guy came in (Avengers) and said, "Sorry Sony, IM was a hit. Avengers is pretty much a slam dunk unlike your remake/reboot. It is what it is. Oh, you're also going to get sandwiched between the other fat guy (TDKR).

That's how the game works, and everyone plays it.
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Remember when I said that I understood that it was a business move? What I'm saying here is that DC is doing this specifically to force Marvel's movie out of a spot it already claimed. Dirty play, but that's what they've decided to do.

Was ASM already in the May 1st spot when Avengers was announced on that date? If so, that was a jerk move on Marvel's part.
 
Crimson King said:
Remember when I said that I understood that it was a business move? What I'm saying here is that DC is doing this specifically to force Marvel's movie out of a spot it already claimed. Dirty play, but that's what they've decided to do.

Was ASM already in the May 1st spot when Avengers was announced on that date? If so, that was a jerk move on Marvel's part.
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No, but that was before Marvel was announcing releases 4 years in advance like they are now, which we know amount to nothing as these projects have neither a completed script nor director attached.

We know Raimi's Spidey 4 was targeting May 2011. Thor seemed to be the oddball out, until Spidey 4 collapsed an Marvel was in the right place at the right time. So it's pretty safe to assume Sony was going for May 2012 for the reboot, but Avengers was not going to let that happen.

The point is, Sony established the precedent, not Marvel. Tentpoles back in the 90's and early 2000's always had the event films between Memorial Day and ID. You had JP (1993) in June, ID (1996) on... Independence Day. Lost World and MIB on those dates respectively in 1997. Godzilla (1998). Those were the coveted release dates, and always have been.

With the competition so fierce these days, Hollywood had to extend that by a couple weeks on both sides. Sony was the first to try this to get a leg up on Star Wars. It was a bold move on their part, and it paid off for them. If anyone should be entitled to a release date, it's them. But they handed it off for the good of the Marvel brand (Notably because you can't release a Spidey movie every year, so that's a bit of an overstatement).

Marvel should be thankful they've had that slot for the greater part of a decade. But due to their oversaturation (Fox/Sony are in this as well), it was unsustainable, and they had to shove their **** in July. WB, which releases one DC film every couple of years, can't have a date to themselves.

So no, WB aren't being ****s. They are returning the favor (Michael Jai White, Spawn style I may add :cwink:).
 
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Mr.M said:
So no, WB aren't being ****s. They are returning the favor (Michael Jai White, Spawn style I may add :cwink:).
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Returning the favor? When did DC announce a superhero movie for a weekend, only to have Marvel announce one the same weekend? That's what I'm talking about, not some phantom "we generally have a movie around that weekend" nonsense. I'm talking about announced release dates.
 
Mr.M said:
The point is, Sony established the precedent, not Marvel.
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You make it sound like Sony and Marvel weren't partners back then. Before Disney/Marvel cut a deal with Sony recently, Marvel got a healthy piece of the Raimi Spider-Man pie and was an active partner in creative matters. Kevin Feige cut his teeth on those movies. X2 and their Fox partnership took it and ran in 2003. Iron Man in 2008 and 2010 held ground before Avengers.

Any way you cut it, the WB moving to May 2016 is an intentional cheap shot. Those never end well.
 
Crimson King said:
Returning the favor? When did DC announce a superhero movie for a weekend, only to have Marvel announce one the same weekend? That's what I'm talking about, not some phantom "we generally have a movie around that weekend" nonsense. I'm talking about announced release dates.
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Now why don't we actually back that announcement with some substance? Where is this stellar script for Dr. Strange that Hollywood is raving about? And if they want to keep that under wraps, where are the world class directors? Oh yeah, Marvel goes cheap on that front we know that. What about the actors? Has Depp signed the dotted line? Did they land Denzel for Panther? Obviously I am being facetious, but Marvel can't back up the announcement at this juncture. It shows weakness and indecisiveness. If Thor 3 was on the fast track, why not come out and say it? That came out 3 months ago and ran its course at the box office. Why not have Taylor commit to it and get the crew back?

Had Marvel had the weight behind their words, do I think it would have stopped WB? No I don't, but Marvel doesn't have weight period in this case. Marvel can't even greenlight a Thor 3 at this point, which is the only thing that would have held ground for at least a few weeks before switching dates (IM4 not happening).

If you don't have leverage, your stock price is going to drop or you are going to get outbid. I'm not a finance guy, but it doesn't take one to see that. Marvel was empty handed in 2016. Marvel/Disney positioned themselves for 2015. Hollywood can't just hand over 2016 to the Mouse back to back like that.
 
Mr.M said:
Now why don't we actually back that announcement with some substance? Where is this stellar script for Dr. Strange that Hollywood is raving about? And if they want to keep that under wraps, where are the world class directors? Oh yeah, Marvel goes cheap on that front we know that. What about the actors? Has Depp signed the dotted line? Did they land Denzel for Panther? Obviously I am being facetious, but Marvel can't back up the announcement at this juncture. It shows weakness and indecisiveness. If Thor 3 was on the fast track, why not come out and say it? That came out 3 months ago and ran its course at the box office. Why not have Taylor commit to it and get the crew back?

Had Marvel had the weight behind their words, do I think it would have stopped WB? No I don't, but Marvel doesn't have weight period in this case. Marvel can't even greenlight a Thor 3 at this point, which is the only thing that would have held ground for at least a few weeks before switching dates (IM4 not happening).

If you don't have leverage, your stock price is going to drop or you are going to get outbid. I'm not a finance guy, but it doesn't take one to see that. Marvel was empty handed in 2016. Marvel/Disney positioned themselves for 2015. Hollywood can't just hand over 2016 to the Mouse back to back like that.
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Now you're just spouting nonsense. I get that you don't like the MCU, so I'm going to ignore the comments about that, but the answer to my question was that Marvel Studios hasn't intentionally placed a movie in a date already announced as having a movie by DC. DC has just done that to Marvel. Unlike DC/WB, Marvel has had time to map out their plan for the foreseeable future (up to 2021 according to Feige). They already know what they're putting there--likely Dr. Strange since it has a script and potential leading men--but it could be Thor 3 or a Hulk movie. Whatever it is, they staked out the date and WB intentionally put BvsS there to force them out. Everyone except you seems to be able to see that.
 
Crimson King said:
Now you're just spouting nonsense. I get that you don't like the MCU, so I'm going to ignore the comments about that, but the answer to my question was that Marvel Studios hasn't intentionally placed a movie in a date already announced as having a movie by DC. DC has just done that to Marvel. Unlike DC/WB, Marvel has had time to map out their plan for the foreseeable future (up to 2021 according to Feige). They already know what they're putting there--likely Dr. Strange since it has a script and potential leading men--but it could be Thor 3 or a Hulk movie. Whatever it is, they staked out the date and WB intentionally put BvsS there to force them out. Everyone except you seems to be able to see that.
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If that's your only sticking point, then no I don't have a relevant example of exactly that per say, although I'm sure it's happened before. Just not as public and significant as the example being discussed, nor is it the least bit surprising that WB resort to this. My argument is that there are extending circumstances which justifies this kind of power play, and I've pointed those out already.

Marvel said:
You make it sound like Sony and Marvel weren't partners back then. Before Disney/Marvel cut a deal with Sony recently, Marvel got a healthy piece of the Raimi Spider-Man pie and was an active partner in creative matters. Kevin Feige cut his teeth on those movies. X2 and their Fox partnership took it and ran in 2003. Iron Man in 2008 and 2010 held ground before Avengers.

Any way you cut it, the WB moving to May 2016 is an intentional cheap shot. Those never end well.
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It was Sony's investment. They marketed and distributed the film and had final say as to when it would be released. Not a Marvel decision in the least. The onus was on them, and they delivered back in 2002.
 
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:cmad: :wall: :facepalm:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01...-marvel-universe-as-explained-by-the-watcher/

Today’s FF #16 is in part a whimsical superhero romp, in part a treatise on power and consequence, and in part a science lesson in Marvel Comics physics.
Let’s skip to that last part. We saw a glimpse of it in last week’s Fantastic Four #16, finishing Matt Fraction‘s run on the title with a little help from his friends, while he took time out not to write Inhuman.
But in his final issue, he rewrote some of the basic ways in which many superpowers work in the Marvel Universe, something that is likely to stick around for quite sometime.
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IMG_00243.jpg
 
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