The Official Avengers Thread (Heroic Age Bendis/JRJR) - Part 1

[JewishHobbit]

see, I never cared about Luke. to me, it felt like Bendis was just trying too hard to use a character that he liked, whether or not he fit in the story. Luke Cage just doesn't equal an Avenger to me. But there he is, on the Avengers for almost 5 years. Not because he deserved it, but because Bendis had a man crush on him.

See, this is something I don't get. People constantly say that so and so doesn't deserve to be on the Avengers... but what makes someone deserve it? Do they have to have a long Avengers history to be Avenger material... which is a little counter productive?

As for Luke... I came into New Avengers kinda liking him as an underdog character. I liked the first 8 or 9 issues of his 90's series but eventually stopped reading it for one reason or another but I kinda liked him due to that, though I wouldn't have bought another ongoing or anything.

Bendis brought him in and built up his character prior to New Avengers will him impregnating Jessica Jones in Alias but moreso in Pulse where you see him rise from token black guy to a protective father-to-be when he took out Norman Osborn for endangering Jessica and his baby. He was another minor role in Secret War and then he stepped it up by chance in New Avengers. Bendis didn't thrust hiim to a major role yet but slowly built him up until he started to shine as Cap's right hand man in Civil War and then finally had him lead a fairly street level team after that and he's been going ever since. Now he's leader of the New Avengers and in charge of the Thunderbolts and the prison they're on. He's a good father and a great husband and he's someone that other heroes can start to look up to.


So yeah, my hope is that after all this Luke and Jessica get a series together. Maybe a new book with Iron Fist if Defenders fizzles out. I'd totally buy that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

People deserve to be Avengers when they're cool and I like them, damn it.

 

[RockSP]

See, this is something I don't get. People constantly say that so and so doesn't deserve to be on the Avengers... but what makes someone deserve it?

Heh, exactly. Sometimes it seems fans forget these are fictional characters and teams.

I also can't agree with the "A-list writer" thing. I'm just hoping a good writer gets the book.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's something that bugs me, personally. Feeling passionate about fictional characters doesn't belie some inability to grasp that they're fictional.

 

[Anubis]

To be fair, nobody deserves anything. Real or fictional.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

The one problem I usually have when it comes to Avengers rosters is that they let just about anybody on the team. B- and C-listers that really have no right to be standing next to legends like Cap, Iron Man and Thor.

My go to example is the beginning of Busiek's run. Both Justice and that Triathlon guy. I don't care how well they proved themselves through the course of the run, the fact is that when they were allowed on the team, they were nobodies. They were anything but qualified to be on a team that handles the end of the world on a regular basis.

Luke was and always will be a street level character. He just doesn't fit in the world-saving business. Characters like Spider-Man have a certain balance that lets them slip between street level and world saving, but I don't think Luke has that balance. He's purely street level. If he were on a side Avengers team that catered more to those kinds of problems, I could accept it more. Or even a West Coast Avengers team. I don't think he ranks up there enough to be on Avengers proper, because his wheel house is drug dealers, pimps, etc.

 

[Anubis]

So basically it's cuz he's black.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

exactly.

 

[RockSP]

If Hawkeye, Black Widow, Tigra, Mockingbird and about a billion others who are less powerful than Cage can be on the team, I don't see why he can't. I'm not even a fan of Bendis' run (maybe an issue here or there)...just can't understand the "deserves" thing. Or the "nobodies" thing. No new character should ever be able to join...?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think there should logically be any limits on who's an Avenger. The Avengers have sort of made it their standard operating procedure to invite the unlikely and perhaps even unskilled into their ranks. I look at them as something like a teaching hospital applied to superheroes. Captain America and various others don't just want the best and brightest. They want to mold the best and brightest of the future by offering them examples of great skill and experience in action. It's written all over pretty much every Avengers comic, too; take, for example, the fact that virtually everyone who's been an Avenger mentions something about Captain America sparring with them. Cap's not just sparring for kicks. He puts the Justices and Rages through the ringer to unlock their potential and make them better heroes. Those who can't hack it ultimately get cut, like the aforementioned Rage and Dr. Druid and Ms. Marvel during her battle with alcoholism. But more often than not, the risks pay off in the form of your Hawkeyes and your Justices and your Visions. That's part of the beauty of the Avengers concept, and part of why I prefer them over the Justice League.

 

[Anubis]

Cage can throw a city bus and beat the crap outta most of the classic Masters of Evil. I'd say he "deserves" membership if such a thing is even possible.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

edit. didn't post it in time. moot point.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I don't think there should logically be any limits on who's an Avenger. The Avengers have sort of made it their standard operating procedure to invite the unlikely and perhaps even unskilled into their ranks. I look at them as something like a teaching hospital applied to superheroes. Captain America and various others don't just want the best and brightest. They want to mold the best and brightest of the future by offering them examples of great skill and experience in action. It's written all over pretty much every Avengers comic, too; take, for example, the fact that virtually everyone who's been an Avenger mentions something about Captain America sparring with them. Cap's not just sparring for kicks. He puts the Justices and Rages through the ringer to unlock their potential and make them better heroes. Those who can't hack it ultimately get cut, like the aforementioned Rage and Dr. Druid and Ms. Marvel during her battle with alcoholism. But more often than not, the risks pay off in the form of your Hawkeyes and your Justices and your Visions. That's part of the beauty of the Avengers concept, and part of why I prefer them over the Justice League.

This is why I love the idea of Avengers Academy. Training young people and getting them ready to be an Avenger. But just letting the new kids jump into a cosmic level fight, or time travel shenanigans or whatever the Avengers have going on, seems irresponsible.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The new kids got sucked into at least two cosmic-level fights already in Avengers Academy. It's kind of unavoidable when you put on tights these days. Better to have them face it alongside the likes of Thor and Iron Man, right?

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I haven't read Academy yet. I was waiting for trade, and by the time they came out I just didn't have the money for it. But yeah, sometimes I guess it is unavoidable and better to have the pros next to the new kids.

But if it is avoidable, then well...they should avoid it.

A story about the death of a really young and inexperienced Avenger could have great story potential. The idea was already kinda covered in Civil War, but a lot of Civil War was kinda meh and I wouldn't mind seeing a tighter focus than THIS MEANS WAR FOR EVERY SUPERHERO.

 

[Splat]

I don't think there should logically be any limits on who's an Avenger. The Avengers have sort of made it their standard operating procedure to invite the unlikely and perhaps even unskilled into their ranks. I look at them as something like a teaching hospital applied to superheroes. Captain America and various others don't just want the best and brightest. They want to mold the best and brightest of the future by offering them examples of great skill and experience in action. It's written all over pretty much every Avengers comic, too; take, for example, the fact that virtually everyone who's been an Avenger mentions something about Captain America sparring with them. Cap's not just sparring for kicks. He puts the Justices and Rages through the ringer to unlock their potential and make them better heroes. Those who can't hack it ultimately get cut, like the aforementioned Rage and Dr. Druid and Ms. Marvel during her battle with alcoholism. But more often than not, the risks pay off in the form of your Hawkeyes and your Justices and your Visions. That's part of the beauty of the Avengers concept, and part of why I prefer them over the Justice League.

Great point, I've never looked at it that way.

 

[runawayboulder]

Every writer has their pet characters they bring to the team. Roger Stern had Captain Marvel/Photon, Harras had Black Knight/Crystal/Sersi, Busiek had Justice/Firestar/Triathalon and Bendis has Cage/Spider-Man/Wolverine. Waid or whomever will have theirs.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Heh, exactly. Sometimes it seems fans forget these are fictional characters and teams.

I also can't agree with the "A-list writer" thing. I'm just hoping a good writer gets the book.

While a good writer is a must, today's comic book industry pretty much demands A-list writers writing the A-list books. I just don't even think Marvel will want to risk not giving Avengers to someone who is not an A-lister in the post-Bendis era.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't think there should logically be any limits on who's an Avenger. The Avengers have sort of made it their standard operating procedure to invite the unlikely and perhaps even unskilled into their ranks. I look at them as something like a teaching hospital applied to superheroes. Captain America and various others don't just want the best and brightest. They want to mold the best and brightest of the future by offering them examples of great skill and experience in action. It's written all over pretty much every Avengers comic, too; take, for example, the fact that virtually everyone who's been an Avenger mentions something about Captain America sparring with them. Cap's not just sparring for kicks. He puts the Justices and Rages through the ringer to unlock their potential and make them better heroes. Those who can't hack it ultimately get cut, like the aforementioned Rage and Dr. Druid and Ms. Marvel during her battle with alcoholism. But more often than not, the risks pay off in the form of your Hawkeyes and your Justices and your Visions. That's part of the beauty of the Avengers concept, and part of why I prefer them over the Justice League.

Exactly. That's why I love the Avengers. While we all have our personal preferences on who should be on the team, it makes it great that it really lets anyone on and they welcome everyone with open arms. Really, the only people who don't deserve Avengers membership IMO are murderers like Wolverine.

The Justice League roster is far too static to ever be superior to the Avengers. Anyone who is not part of a very specific set of characters just feels very out of place from the League. And most of them have their own books, so it's not like we're going to get substantial characterization from them like we would with the Avengers.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Every writer has their pet characters they bring to the team. Roger Stern had Captain Marvel/Photon, Harras had Black Knight/Crystal/Sersi, Busiek had Justice/Firestar/Triathalon and Bendis has Cage/Spider-Man/Wolverine. Waid or whomever will have theirs.

And honestly, Bendis' pet character that everyone was begging for him to not have on the team was Daredevil. He showed restraint and didn't do that until the last year or so of his run... sadly. I always wanted Daredevil on the team.

 

[Havok83]

I just read the latest issue of Avengers and the set up for how Storm joins was so lame! Basically BP says "you guys need my wife" and just like that she's a member. I dont know what I was expecting but I did expect more than T'challa merely telling them they need to add his wife if they want him on

 

[Anubis]

Well, to be fair, BP is a bad mutha, and if he say do something, you mofos better do it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

And it made a lot of sense. They were looking for someone to replace Thor's role on the team. Storm fits that bill and BP pointed it out. I don't think it really needed anything else.

 

[Splat]

And it made a lot of sense. They were looking for someone to replace Thor's role on the team. Storm fits that bill and BP pointed it out. I don't think it really needed anything else.

Agreed, no reason to make things complicated if they don't have to be.

 

[bored]

Besides, it provides a great excuse for Wolverine to not be there