The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

[shauner111]

LOL Batman Returns was like an evil Saturday morning cartoon that aired during the Christmas holidays.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

LOL Batman Returns was like an evil Saturday morning cartoon that aired during the Christmas holidays.

That alone made it great.

 

[Cain]

Batman is tragedy, darkness, heroism, inspiration

Batman is also altruism, perserverance, duality and at many points even loneliness. Batman Returns covers the first two themes you mentioned and the last 2 themes I mentioned fairly well. The 1966 TV series emphasized heroism and adventure but ignored tragedy and darkness which were elements that existed as far back as the early 40's within the mythology. Doesn't make it any less valid.

The Batman mythology is one of the most multilayered in all of fiction. That tends to happen when you have a character that's been around for over 70 years. It evolves in all different types of directions thematically. Just because Batman Returns choose to omit other themes from the mythos does not make it any less valid. It focused on the themes it needed to tell it's story just like any other Batman tale.

 

[Doc Ock]

LOL Batman Returns was like an evil Saturday morning cartoon that aired during the Christmas holidays.

Batman Returns is my favorite live-action Batman film.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Batman Returns is my favorite live-action Batman film.

Regardless of his intention, what he said about BR was nothing wrong.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Good for you that I watched the movie yesterday, right from the late-90s DVD with tremendous picture quality (which kinda fits the movie, not an insult!), especially on my 40 inch screen. I didn't finish it, only the first half. Not because I couldn't watch it. It was because of headache... in my pants...

Anyway. Some points:

- So are we supposed to believe Batman watches the family getting mugged? I mean it looks like he is on a very high building. And then, what kind of Batman is this, watching a family getting robbed and then waiting a long time to catch them. I mean, what could have happened to the family?

- The so-called "bad ass" appearance of Batman... No... It is, frankly, ridiculous. The scene in Axis Chemical works better.

- Vicki Vale's glasses... lol.. her dress... rofl

- Keaton's voice... Not scary, not threatening. I don't know how people get that idea.

- Jack Palance's way of speaking... and snorting. "NUMBER ONE GUY!" lol again! (there cannot be a Batman movie with lots of unintentional comedy, can there?)

- Bruce Wayne portrayal. At the party it isn't as bad as I remembered it despite Wayne still comes of as a little awkward... but not as bad as in Returns. Still not comparable to the comics.

- The urban legend Batman stuff works well.

- Nothing wrong with Nicholson. Very good stuff.

- Vicki Vale / Bruce Wayne relationship. Out of the blue they meet, have sex, Alfred decides she is THE ONE. Absolutely ridiculous.

- Bruce Wayne hangs around like bat! LOL at the ******ed wannabe symbolism

So that's it for now...

 

[regwec]

Did you even watch the first half? Some weak criticisms, there.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Did you even watch the first half? Some weak criticisms, there.

Don't know exactly. Of course, the movie breaks apart later.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

- So are we supposed to believe Batman watches the family getting mugged? I mean it looks like he is on a very high building. And then, what kind of Batman is this, watching a family getting robbed and then waiting a long time to catch them. I mean, what could have happened to the family?

It is the screaming of the woman what Batman perceives, he wasn't watching the scene.

- The so-called "bad ass" appearance of Batman... No... It is, frankly, ridiculous. The scene in Axis Chemical works better.

Nothing better than Batman looking like a bat (spreading wings). Then acting like a monster that comes back from dead (the thugs thought they had killed him). Pure gold right there. But Axis was good too.

- Vicki Vale's glasses... lol.. her dress... rofl

Glasses too big. Dress hot as hell.

- Keaton's voice... Not scary, not threatening. I don't know how people get that idea.

Because it is scary.

- Jack Palance's way of speaking... and snorting. "NUMBER ONE GUY!" lol again! (there cannot be a Batman movie with lots of unintentional comedy, can there?)

Well, consider that it was the villain voice what you found funny. Most people found Batman voice funny some years later.

- Bruce Wayne portrayal. At the party it isn't as bad as I remembered it despite Wayne still comes of as a little awkward... but not as bad as in Returns. Still not comparable to the comics.

Bruce Wayne was here different, yes. He acted like a real traumatized man that has spent most of his days training, no socializing.

- The urban legend Batman stuff works well.

- Nothing wrong with Nicholson. Very good stuff.

- Vicki Vale / Bruce Wayne relationship. Out of the blue they meet, have sex, Alfred decides she is THE ONE. Absolutely ridiculous.

I myself have thought about it. then again in Terminator happens similarly: out of the blue they meet, have sex, he dies that very night, Sarah Connors considers him the love of her life.

- Bruce Wayne hangs around like bat! LOL at the ******ed wannabe symbolism

He was exercising. The scene works because he was used to the night shift as Batman.

 

[Cain]

He was exercising. The scene works because he was used to the night shift as Batman.

This Batman also starred in Night Shift lol.

 

[milost]

Yeah, I don't see why people always get so confused with the anti-gravity hook boots scene. It's always, "lol, look Bruce is sleeping upside down", "lol, trying to look like a bat".


That's not the scene. The scene is, he can't sleep. He's with Vicki when normally he'd be out on the streets and rooftops of Gotham. So what does he do? He exercises. He has the conversion boots, we see he's clearly moving and conscious, and we see his other equipment like dumbbells around him. It's one of the best exercises you can do, especially for your back and spine.

Then the next morning, we see him sleeping on the couch.





I don't get why that's so hard for people to get or how it's funny. Because he's upside down? How is that a critique? All those scenes with the long table, the emptiness of the house, "some of it is me, some of it isn't", the talk of family and Alfred, showing how eccentric the character of Bruce Wayne is, is there to let the audience get a small glimpse in Bruce Wayne's world.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

LOL Batman Returns was like an evil Saturday morning cartoon that aired during the Christmas holidays.

Isn't that just great?

 

[shauner111]

Sure as an evil Saturday morning cartoon airing during Christmas lol, but that's not very Batman to me. Or at least as an adult it's not what I want to see in a Batman movie or how I envision the character. My biggest beef has always been with how Catwoman and Penguin are portrayed. If I want these kinds of villain portrayals, ill watch Spider-Man movies or his cartoons & comics.

89 kills Returns. And it's a goddamn Batman movie first and foremost.

Ive criticized things about this movie over the last couple of years. But ive watched it recently, along with Returns, and I have a whole new appreciation for it.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

It is the screaming of the woman what Batman perceives, he wasn't watching the scene.

So how does he locate the muggers?

Nothing better than Batman looking like a bat (spreading wings). Then acting like a monster that comes back from dead (the thugs thought they had killed him). Pure gold right there.

I don't like it. It looks like a non-intimidating man in a carnival suit. Then I hate when Batman is shot. It looks ridiculous. Then he throws the batarang at such a short distance (because in the dumb bulky suit you cannot run). When he grabs the guy it doesn't get better because Keaton looks smaller than the man. It just doesn't look like he could be able to lift him.

I know, nitpicking... but it comes of sloppy. Don't know. Burton was simply not able to shoot it more convincing. Perhaps a thing with technology. Sadly, the Batman scenes from Nolan are nothing else than people getting pushed away from Batman like punching balls.

Glasses too big. Dress hot as hell.

The dress just doesn't fit the party.

Because it is scary.

No. Doesn't impress me at all.

Well, consider that it was the villain voice what you found funny. Most people found Batman voice funny some years later.

I think they are both funny. Palance is really hamming it up. Intentional or not.

Bruce Wayne was here different, yes. He acted like a real traumatized man that has spent most of his days training, no socializing.

I do not really know how anyone could have come up with such a characterization, especially in the 80s.

I myself have thought about it. then again in Terminator happens similarly: out of the blue they meet, have sex, he dies that very night, Sarah Connors considers him the love of her life.

Well, they experience a lot with each other, he saves her life... Vicki Vale and Bruce Wayne don't have any connection like that. And of course, James Cameron sells it a lot better (look at the sex scene) but James Cameron is a vastly superior director.

He was exercising. The scene works because he was used to the night shift as Batman.

It's clearly meant to look like a bat.

 

[shauner111]

LOL it's to make him look like a bat. Even if he's exercising. That's not the point of the imagery. Burton is a visual director and he forces things down your throat in these movies so you know Bruce is like a Bat, which is why he's...Batman. Selina drinks milk, licks herself, has 9 lives....cuz she's a cat..woman! This is how Burton thinks.

Now, the Keaton upside down scene is so brief that it works. He forces way too much down our throat in the sequel though just to make sure we know this guy over here is a man who is a penguin and a woman who is like a cat.

 

[BatLobster]

Ive criticized things about this movie over the last couple of years. But ive watched it recently, along with Returns, and I have a whole new appreciation for it.

That's how I felt after my last re-watch of 89. For years and years I professed my preference for Returns over 89, but I think I've been vastly underrating 89.

Contrast that with my more recent re-watches of Returns that left me with a lot of mixed feelings and didn't really give me an overall "Batman" feeling.

So yeah, I might be starting to switch over and prefer 89 myself.

Returns was the first Batman movie I ever saw in theaters and it definitely kickstarted my fandom, so I'll always appreciate it for that. But the movie just has this foul, grotesque aura about it (largely due to The Penguin) that I find increasingly distracting.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

LOL it's to make him look like a bat. Even if he's exercising. That's not the point of the imagery. Burton is a visual director and he forces things down your throat in these movies so you know Bruce is like a Bat, which is why he's...Batman. Selina drinks milk, licks herself, has 9 lives....cuz she's a cat..woman! This is how Burton thinks.

Now, the Keaton upside down scene is so brief that it works. He forces way too much down our throat in the sequel though just to make sure we know this guy over here is a man who is a penguin and a woman who is like a cat.

I still don't like it and find it pretentious.

Yes, it's one of those cases where you see small glimpses antics of a director in the first movie but you don't pay attention to it because the director is still restricted by the screenplay and the producers.

Then, after a success, the director becomes more powerful and his true colors show and the antics become the whole movie.

Also happened with Batman Begins --> The Dark Knight. In the first one you have a stylised look, Scarecrow on a firespitting horse and talk about "escalation" (especially THAT really didn't happen in the sequels, at least not the way the talk about it) next to Nolan's "realism".

Then The Dark Knight comes around and everything is bleak and down-to-earth without fantastical elements.

 

[Elevator Man]

LOL it's to make him look like a bat. Even if he's exercising. That's not the point of the imagery. Burton is a visual director and he forces things down your throat in these movies so you know Bruce is like a Bat, which is why he's...Batman. Selina drinks milk, licks herself, has 9 lives....cuz she's a cat..woman! This is how Burton thinks.

Now, the Keaton upside down scene is so brief that it works. He forces way too much down our throat in the sequel though just to make sure we know this guy over here is a man who is a penguin and a woman who is like a cat.

Yeah b/c the far superior Nolan doesn't force any of his themes and ideas down our throats in any of his movies.

 

[shauner111]

But im not talking about Nolan. Im talking this movie. Why do people have to compare when they feel their backs are up against the wall?

 

[The Shape]

Good for you that I watched the movie yesterday, right from the late-90s DVD with tremendous picture quality (which kinda fits the movie, not an insult!), especially on my 40 inch screen. I didn't finish it, only the first half. Not because I couldn't watch it. It was because of headache... in my pants...

Anyway. Some points:

- So are we supposed to believe Batman watches the family getting mugged? I mean it looks like he is on a very high building. And then, what kind of Batman is this, watching a family getting robbed and then waiting a long time to catch them. I mean, what could have happened to the family?

- The so-called "bad ass" appearance of Batman... No... It is, frankly, ridiculous. The scene in Axis Chemical works better.

- Vicki Vale's glasses... lol.. her dress... rofl

- Keaton's voice... Not scary, not threatening. I don't know how people get that idea.

- Jack Palance's way of speaking... and snorting. "NUMBER ONE GUY!" lol again! (there cannot be a Batman movie with lots of unintentional comedy, can there?)

- Bruce Wayne portrayal. At the party it isn't as bad as I remembered it despite Wayne still comes of as a little awkward... but not as bad as in Returns. Still not comparable to the comics.

- The urban legend Batman stuff works well.

- Nothing wrong with Nicholson. Very good stuff.

- Vicki Vale / Bruce Wayne relationship. Out of the blue they meet, have sex, Alfred decides she is THE ONE. Absolutely ridiculous.

- Bruce Wayne hangs around like bat! LOL at the ******ed wannabe symbolism

So that's it for now...

Those are some of the most ridiculous criticisms I've ever read of B89. Just shameful and it almost seems as if you lack a basic understanding of the Bruce Wayne/Batman character. Thank God you didn't write about the second half. I can only imagine how that would have went...

 

[Travesty]

So how does he locate the muggers?

The people got mugged, and were told not to scream. After they started to run, the woman started to scream, which is when Batman took notice, and saw some guys run away. He probably watched what building they went into, and of course, went there and beat them up. We do see Batman leave the building he was on, so he did that to follow the robbers.

I don't see what's wrong with that scene at all. He's not Superman, he can't just zip over from place to place in the blink of an eye, nor does he have supervision or hearing to know about every crime that is going on in Gotham.

 

[The Shape]

The people got mugged, and were told not to scream. After they started to run, the woman started to scream, which is when Batman took notice, and saw some guys run away. He probably watched what building they went into, and of course, went there and beat them up. We do see Batman leave the building he was on, so he did that to follow the robbers.

I don't see what's wrong with that scene at all. He's not Superman, he can't just zip over from place to place in the blink of an eye, nor does he have supervision or hearing to know about every crime that is going on in Gotham.

That whole scene is an awesome introduction to Batman and shows a key difference to Nolan's Batman, in that no crime was too small for him. Bruce was a haunted soul who just felt like he HAD to do this, night in and night out, because he was the only one who could.

The intro scene is also a great example of how Batman spread his "urban legend" status throughout Gotham, and not with such grand gestures as hoisting up a crime lord on top of a spotlight to make the shape of a bat in the sky. "I want you to tell your friends about me" was AWESOME.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

That whole scene is an awesome introduction to Batman and shows a key difference to Nolan's Batman, in that no crime was too small for him. Bruce was a haunted soul who just felt like he HAD to do this, night in and night out, because he was the only one who could.

The intro scene is also a great example of how Batman spread his "urban legend" status throughout Gotham, and not with such grand gestures as hoisting up a crime lord on top of a spotlight to make the shape of a bat in the sky. "I want you to tell your friends about me" was AWESOME.

Nitty, gritty and to the point... That was Keaton's Batman.

 

[Travesty]

I think the most ridiculous thing that happened in this movie, was when The Joker shot down The Batwing with one shot. We know The Batmobile is fully armored, but Batman's flying machine is apparently made out of aluminum.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

As the thug's feet dangle over the ledge of that building and Keaton says... "I want you to do me a favor..." I get goosebumps. That is the Finger-Kane-Oneil-Adams Batman come to life!