The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 2

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No way. This is the only one I'll just totally disagree with. TDK has many terrific performances. B'89 only has two, maybe three particularly great performances.

I love Burton's Batman movies but the worst thing he did was simply make the other characters complete throw-aways. Burton did brilliantly with the hero and villains but that was about it. I love love love Michael Gough, but he had very little to do. Gordon, Dent, Vale, Knox are ALL throw-away characters. Nolan's movies are much longer so his supporting characters had far more breathing room. Gordon, Dent, Alfred, and Rachel all have essential roles in TDK.

If anything, one of Nolan's previous greatest strengths was a weakness in TDKR. Characters like Tate, Holly, Daggert, were all shoe-horned throw-aways.
Well, there were less characters in B89 to begin with than TDK.

That said, Michael Gough had plenty to do. He essentially had the same character arc as Caine, but didn't need multiple scenes of exposition to get his point across - that subtle, very natural integration of the subplot was brilliant.

Keaton was incredible, Nicholson was great, Palance was a lot of fun. And while not a legendary performance or anything, Knox worked as much better way to integrate humor into the film than most of what Nolan attempted in his films.
 
Yea, that's true.

Anyway, there was a discussion on the other board about Batman's role as finite or never-ending and it made me realize that even after three terrific Nolan films, I still prefer Keaton's Batman as a character over Bale's. In this case, it isn't the actors but the characterization. One of my favorite scenes that sums up Batman is the very first scene in B'89 in which Batman takes out the thugs discussing Johnny Gobbs. And I realized that we never once get a scene like that in Nolan's films.

Bale's Batman is a really finite endeavor and he's only concerned with stopping organized crime. In fact, he doesn't even take the Joker seriously at first. That just really really bothers me. Batman is a character who prowls the streets and would get involved with stopping petty criminals without a second's hesitation because his family was murdered by a petty criminal. And that's the single best thing about Keaton's Batman. He would prowl the streets until the end of his life if it led to only one child being spared the misery he endured or meant the protection of a single family. Bale's Batman doesn't do anything of that sort, and I feel like that is far more unforgivable than blasting a few pathetic hoods.
 
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From the book The Story of Rock 'N' Roll

Batmanbook.jpg


Batmanbook2.jpg
 
Knox worked as much better way to integrate humor into the film than most of what Nolan attempted in his films.

Ow yeah, I hated those few cringe worthy scenes in Begins.
The nice coat guy, the two inmates just sitting there when Batman throws his bombs, and all those short cop scenes really annoyed the hell out of me during the Tumbler chase.
I really want a fan edit of BB without the unnecessary scenes.

Plus Keatons cowl has a much more badass look than Bale's. Bale's mouth and chin look like a giant zit exploding out of the cowl.
 
Keaton's Bat costume was bad ass.

I remember seeing the trailer for that in theaters and not knowing that Keaton was playing him and then seeing Jack about midway in the trailer being Joker. I was so excited for it to come out. I felt like "my guy" was finally getting his due in film.

Great couple of documentaries came out before it- 20/20 had one and a summer preview show hosted by Mark Harmon.

Yeah it was cartoon but NOTHING like Adam West or any of the cartoons up to that point.

I remember reading the book a couple of weeks before thw movie came out. They left out a scene where he rode a horse..????

just that one little scene "what are you?? I'm Batman" and I was sold.
 
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I watched that 20/20 special so many times before going to see the movie.
 
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Plus Keatons cowl has a much more badass look than Bale's. Bale's mouth and chin look like a giant zit exploding out of the cowl.

I've liked all the cowls though the BB cowl does make Bale look a bit pudgy lol but really do love that '89 cowl design the most. Because it looks so grungy and the expression on it is so aggressive.


It was a nice touch how the ridges pretty much match up with the shape of Keaton's awesome eyebrows. The eyebrows are the element that matched with his eyes give him that truly kick ass and unique glare and it was reflected in the cowl as well due to the similarity. It's the only one that really looked like something a guy would create to inflict fear and not just another hollywood prop like the other cowls did (including Keaton's second cowl).
 
And I don't understand it either, we went from this:

MichaelKeatonBatman.jpg


To this:

beginsfeat.jpg


While in Begins there's more references to fear than in the Codex Gigas, he gets a cowl that makes Bale look constipated.
 
LOL @ the constipated expression. It also made him look a bit bobblehead-ish. I like that the helmet cowl from the sequels were at least a bit more streamlined.
 
Wow I want to thank everyone who posted!!

I have read both parts and enjoyed every minute, agreeing and disagreeing, some of the opinions and theories are just genius.

I am a huge '89 fan and seeing such a sensible and interesting debate was heaven!!
 
I appreciate 1989BatmanMovie for posting these on YT. Also fans of Adam West's Batman should definitely check out the second video.

[YT]C4I1_V1SDDo[/YT]

[YT]MT56qA_8_S4[/YT]
 
West cried for an hour after learning Keaton as Batman. I think he was joking there. Lol
 
^^^ Me neither.

I just saw a funny trailer mashup between Batman 89 and Speed.

[YT]YMEBk8yINUo[/YT]
 
Did you guys hear what happened to Johnny Gobbs?
 
I'd like to hear the opinions of Burton and Schumacher about Nolan's Batman, it would be interesting to hear what other directors think about others work.
 
I'd like to hear the opinions of Burton and Schumacher about Nolan's Batman, it would be interesting to hear what other directors think about others work.

Schumacher said this:

“Chris Nolan is one of my favorite directors,” Schumacher told IFC while discussing his upcoming film “Trespass,” starring Nicolas Cage. “Years ago I was doing press in Paris, and I was with Eli Richbourg. We were looking for a movie that wasn’t in French . . . and we saw this British film called ‘Following.’ It’s in black and white and it’s Chris Nolan’s first film, and . . . I just thought it was the work of a brilliant young director. So I always had him in the back of my mind, thinking, ‘We’re going to hear from this guy, big time.’ Then I saw ‘Memento’ and the promise was fulfilled very fast.”

“I think Chris Nolan is brilliant and I think Heath [Ledger] was extraordinary [in 'The Dark Knight.'],” he added. “Chris is a master and he’s so young, and god knows what’s coming from him now.”

http://www.ifc.com/fix/2011/10/joel-schumacher-christopher-nolan-the-dark-knight-rises-batman
 
I still have such great appreciation for this film. Nostalgia aside, and even some of its flaws aside ... it's to me the best spirit of Batman seen on screen IMO. The world is dark, gothic, yet still a believable enough reality and not totally fairy tale and ridiculous like Returns or Shumacher's films. It has the best balance of all the Batman films. It's dark, psycholigcally murky ... yet its fun. It's a movie made for adults to make them feel like adolescents again, as opposed to adolescent material being made to make people feel like adults. Keaton's performance in this film is amazing. Batman is very threatning, very mysterious ... which I really like.

He's heroic, yet he gets his hands dirty and is vengeful. I like how it echoes the spirit and style of the earliest Bob Kane stories, where Batman is a dracula or spectre like creature. I prefer Keaton's innate American swagger as Batman. He's cool, calm and collected. He doesn't seem like a wanna be tough guy the way in some cases I felt with Bale's Batman. I don't know if thats a British thing. I like the Citizen Kane approach to Batman. He's distant, reclusive, neurotic, obsessive ... doesn't feel comfortable in his own skin. And it's all so layered, without being addressed in dialogue. Keaton's Bruce Wayne is the most relatable character. He's a man of extreme wealth who doesn't feel comfortable with it. And this is addressed in extreme subtlety.

- Not knowing how many bottles of champagne to open up
- Are you Bruce Wayne? "Well, I'm not sure"
- Preferring to eating in Alfred's intimate kitchen as opposed to huge dining room.
- "Some of this is very much me, some of it isn't"
- "Well he's out there right now, and I have to go to work"

He's a mean of wealth who internally fashions himself as the ordinary hard working man. He's born to privelage but goes out at night and risks his body and life fighting crime. It's done so subtely.

I also like how Keaton's Wayne is so neurotic and obsessive he's as crazy as his villains. Which I agree with. The thought of a man dressing up like a Bat to fight crime is very much insane.

I also like how his Batman feels like Death Wish in a Bat suit. Ever haunted by the memory of his parents being killed.

He's deadly when he has to be, enough to always instill fear in people ... but doesn't kill people at random the way he does in RETURNS. So he remains heroic, yet angry and vengeful.

His bat suit is CLASSIC. The first ever all black bat suit, which always made more sense to me. It's crude-ness being the first suit made the rubber really thick, and blotchy and not shiny ... giving it a meaner flat black look ... and thick enough to really be armor or gargoyle like. It's intimidating the way the eye holes form shadows to make soul less eyes. His Batman has nice gadgets, without being too techy. His Batman voice is deeper, raspier ... without being over the top and unintenionally funny. Which even though I like Bale's voice most of the times, at times is beyond ridiculous.

It's just the best world for Batman. Oppressive, dark, dirty Gotham ... while still being a functional American City. It's filmed on bigger sets than RETURNS so it has space, but remains small enough that the characters seem larger than life and mythic.

It's a world where I can picture all of Batman's world operating without having to make excuses or discounting various elements. If it had a tighter script, and slightly more focus in various areas ... it would still be the best movie of the entire franchise, IMO.
 
Very nice artwork up there. Keaton's Batman wasn't in a good mood at all during that final confrontation, and Nicholson was on fine form as well. I liked how he sold Joker's desperation but also keeping his humour through it, finding a way to work through the situation as it evolved, and before you know it Batman's on the back foot hanging on for life.
 
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